August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[blue collar]

Lots of whispers and some fear spreading in the phx breakrooms lately after seeing the company newsletter with vice presidents of the combined aa/us. Apparently Tim Ahern will be the vp of Lax, Jfk, Dca, and Phx. Meanwhile other hubs get their own dedicated individual vp. Signs of things to come with phx being a focus city? Could mean nothing or could mean something....

Look at it this way: LAX and JFK are 2 of the 'corner stones' of AA, while DCA is a mini hub 'focus city'. Will PHX shrink? Possibly. But I don't think it'll shrink a whole hell of a lot. So I would think it means more nothing than something...

 

[john john]

All of the above suggest that management doesn't like the idea and will NOT voluntarily recognize "The Association". Otherwise, there would be no fuss and it would be 'seamless' as it was for the CWA/IBT.

On September 9, 2005, the IBT and CWA entered into a Joint Agreement for the Formation of the Association

On or about September 22, 2005, CW/IBT mailed out ballots asking if the membership wanted to form a association
On October 24, 2005" The Passenger Service Employee Association IBT + CWA” file with the NMB to see if a single transportation system exists for Passenger Service Employees, and, if so, to certify the Association as the representative of the consolidated, post-merger craft or class. The agreement terminated the West/IBT Section 6 negotiations that had been ongoing prior to the merger.
The company’s /Carriers voluntarily recognized the Association

 

[mike33]

On September 9, 2005, the IBT and CWA entered into a Joint Agreement for the Formation of the Association

On or about September 22, 2005, CW/IBT mailed out ballots asking if the membership wanted to form a association
On October 24, 2005" The Passenger Service Employee Association IBT + CWA” file with the NMB to see if a single transportation system exists for Passenger Service Employees, and, if so, to certify the Association as the representative of the consolidated, post-merger craft or class. The agreement terminated the West/IBT Section 6 negotiations that had been ongoing prior to the merger.
The company’s /Carriers voluntarily recognized the Association

No quite. I think the transition approval terminated the sec 6 .

"On December 5, 2005, the Carriers entered into an Interim Transition Agreement with the Association. Hemenway signed this agreement as Vice President of Labor Relations for both East and West. Pursuant to that agreement, the Carriers voluntarily recognized the Association as the collective bargaining representative of all Passenger Service Employees of the Carriers. The agreement provides that the West Passenger Service Employees will transition to the existing East/Communication Workers of America (East-CWA) collective bargaining agreement (CBA), and sets forth specific dates for pay increases for West Passenger Service Employees to achieve East pay rates. This agreement terminated the West/IBT Section 6 negotiations that had been ongoing prior to the merger. According to Hemenway, the Carriers’ negotiations of final rules to transition the West Passenger Service Employees to the East-CWA CBA commenced on January 9, 2006 and are ongoing."

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
What leverage does fleet service have? I keep hearing about it but what is the leverage. Can we stall the merger? How can fleet force Uncle Al to an agreement?

Most of the leverage at this point is legal leverage, however other great leverages are in play due to the economy, and also having a democratic dominated NMB.

1. Legal leverage.
This leverage was created because of the merger. It wouldn't exist without the merger. In its simpliest terms, the company needs things from us, due to the merger. Its most immediate concerns would be a cross fleeting or a fence agreement. Even if it got one from ALPA, if it didn't get one from our members, then the ALPA one wouldn't be as synergy producing. My only concern is that the IAM 141 eboard did the exact opposite of what it said it was going to do and signed over a fence agreement with United and gave management sole and exclusive determination rights....for nothing. Delaney and crowd is pure wicked and company run so that is a concern.

2. A joint negotiation team. I like everything I have heard from the IAM and TWU. If they stick to their guns [never do] and hold off on a joint contract until a equitable section 6 contract is signed at US AIRWAYS, then it puts the company in a jam. The company can wait, but as it waits, it burns up any thought of the savings that the merger was suppose to create. Actually, cost would get higher for the company.
But again, after SCS, the IAM flipped like a pancake and hosed United members by giving up this leverage for nothing. I follow history so I feel we all have to be on guard. The most likely scenario may be a shitty ta from the IAM. Talk is cheap but at the end of the day, my bet is that this eboard lies like it did at HAL and UAL and comes up with some bs contract that doesn't provide the scope everyone needs. I hope I'm wrong but at least the members will have final control.

3. The economy
this isn't bankruptcy anymore so the union and the company has breathing room. Job security is always dependent on the growth and profitability of a particular company. Negotiating with the most profitable airline increases leverage as arguments "We aintz got no money" fade. There shouldn't be one give up in this upcoming ta. And it is very important to keep that '69 seat jets' in our scope definition. I wouldn't recommend that coming out at all, for any price. AH will definitely be wanting that, catering, tower work. If the IAM coughed those things up then it should get $28+ wages for the remaining agents, that's how much it is worth in this merger. In other words, an offer that the company would have to refuse. DON'T STAY IN IAM MODE GIVING UP STATIONS AND WORK!!!!

4. NMB
I don't expect a release anytime soon. In fact, I'm not even depending upon one. My point here though is that the airline has had the luxury in the past of running to a Republican dominated NMB. That put leverage in the airlines hands. Especially in mergers. For instance, the United management went to the NMB crying, playing their violin, to void out section 6 talks with the IBT MX and to force transition talks. The NMB sided with the IBT, and the IBT secured a section 6 agreement. As an aside, the IBT only recently requested SCS [2 years after the effective date] and was in accelerated talks the one year since then but those have now fallen apart. Lesson for the day....transition talks suck. Thankfully, the AFA and IBT held firm on section 6 talks and secured other things, unlike Delaney's crowd who supported management in transition talks.

5. Being the biggest union on the property. This leverage may be subject to change if the IBT wins the mx election.
At any rate, this leverage is small anyways since some argue that the IAM short changed fleet service so MX can have more of the pie, thus, if that is true then fleet would be better off without MX having the IAM.
IMO, this leverage is a wash since it's like there are two different unions even though the IAM represents both mx and fleet. My concern is my IAM pension though. We have been burnt bad when the IAM pension loses members. Although I don't think losing 5,000 more members will necessarily affect the IAMPF this time in this economy.

6. Predicament Standing in relation to the industry
Other big leverage points, and probably the biggest, is that the usairways ramp has the worst contract in the industry for the unionized airlines. Even Delta is better. So, there is natural leverage since the contract already sucks real bad. If we were TWU at Southwest making $26, triple time on holidays, no part time, scope everywhere, then this leverage would be lost. But our members have more leverage than any other ramper since we can point to the other airlines and argue that where we are at is inherently unfair.

There are other leverages, so leverage isn't a problem. The problem is having a negotiation team that is educated, researched, and doesn't just listen to Delaney. Delaney is a moron for sure. And Tommy Reagon is a nice guy but he's IAM Company man.

 

[700UW]

The company didnt want to recognize the CWA/IBT association if they wanted to negotiate a new JCBA, Hemenway told them to vote it out between the two unions.

But he did say he would recognize the association if the west was transitioned to the existing CWA CBA and thats what they did, no improvement were gained by the East, but massive gains were given to the West.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The company didnt want to recognize the CWA/IBT association if they wanted to negotiate a new JCBA, Hemenway told them to vote it out between the two unions.

But he did say he would recognize the association if the west was transitioned to the existing CWA CBA and thats what they did, no improvement were gained by the East, but massive gains were given to the West.

You are an absolute imbecile. LMFAO
Ok, if the east got F by the CWA then what are those 10 holiays, 7 weeks vacation, 12 sick days at full pay they got restored along with iron clad scope that puts their members in every airport? LMFAO. If they got F then the IAM must have "Rape F" the ramp because the ramp doesn't have D.

The problem with the IAM is that idiots like yourself with little to no education and a mountain of ignorance run it. Doesn't mean you are not intelligent but what it does mean is that you serve the IAM like a freakn God and bow down to it even when it blows. As you do so, you become willingly ignorant and look like a complete arse.

 

[700UW]

Glad to see your back with the name calling.

Go ask John John, there were no improvements gained by the east agents, they didnt negotiate a transition agreement, they are still working under the Chapter 11 CBA, the west was placed under it and now they are in section 6 negotiations.

Those are the facts mr bitter.

 

[robbedagain]

didnt the cwa/ibt get a contract in 08 similar to iam?

 

[700UW]

Nope:

US's take:

US Airways Reaches Transition Agreement With Customer Service Employee Association

Agreement Represents Progressive Recognition of Alliance Established by the Communications Workers of America and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters

TEMPE, Ariz., Dec 06, 2005 -- US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LCC) today announced it has reached a transition agreement with the two unions that represent the airline's passenger service employees. The Communications Workers of America (CWA), which represents US Airways' passenger service employees, and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT), which representspassenger service employees, recently formed an alliance designed to represent the new merged airline's passenger service employees. Termed the Airline Customer Service Employee Association, this alliance will represent approximately 7,150 passenger service and reservations employees. Transfer of IBT's and CWA's certifications to represent the passenger service employees is subject to approval by the National Mediation Board.

"Today marks an important milestone as we continue our integration," said US Airways President and CEO Doug Parker. "That we have reached an agreement so quickly with the CWA and IBT is indicative of the continued progress we are making at the new US Airways. The alliance CWA and IBT have formed represents a new, progressive way of approaching organization and we are pleased to work with their new alliance to create a winning airline for our employees and our customers."

The Transition Agreement covers a variety of subjects related to how the two groups of employees will be integrated into a single workforce. It includes provisions for preferential hiring of furloughed employees where vacancies occur, protocols on seniority integration to ensure a fair and equitable integration of seniority, agreement on terms of the final labor agreement at the merged and integrated carrier, which will be in effect through Dec. 31, 2011, timing for integrating the two workforces, as well as comprehensive interim employee cross utilization provisions that will ensure seamless service to customers as the two carriers work towards complete integration.

US Airways and America West's recent merger creates the fifth largest domestic airline employing approximately 35,000 aviation professionals. US Airways, US Airways Shuttle and US Airways Express operate approximately 4,000 flights per day and serve more than 225 communities in the U.S., Canada, Europe, the Caribbean and Latin America.

CWA's take:

US Airways passenger service pay step freeze will be lifted, Holiday Option II will be resumed, and Mainline Express agents will be increased to the Mainline rate of pay...
12-6-2005
The new Passenger Service Employee Association IBT + CWA has reached an Interim Transition Agreement with US Airways management on all the outstanding seamless service and transition issues, and we will accordingly withdraw our change of control grievance. After two months of negotiations by the committee (CWA Local Officers, attorneys and staff and IBT attorneys and staff) the agreement calls for the following:
1. End the pay step freeze for US Airways agents effective this coming April 1, 2006 – snap up to $18 per hour top rate from the current $17;
2. Reinstate the Vacation Option II (bid holidays as vacation) for US Airways effective the next vacation bid (Fall 2006);
3. Raise US Airways Mainline Express Agents to the Mainline pay scale in the following steps:
$.40 raise on 4/1/06;
four months later MLE Agents will be increased 25% of the difference between their current rate and the Mainline rate;
six months later MLE Agents will be increased to 50% of the difference between their then current rate and the Mainline rate;
five months later MLE Agents will be increased to 75% of the difference between their current rate and the Mainline rate;
five months later MLE Agents will be increased to 100% of the Mainline rate.
4. Raise America West Agents to the CWA US Airways Mainline pay scale in the same increments listed in #3 above.
5. Transition America West agents to all the other provisions of the CWA US Airways passenger service contract by 6/1/06, or send all unresolved issues to arbitration.
6. US Airways recognizes the CWA/IBT Association as the legal representative of the agents and the existing CWA US Airways Passenger Service contract remains in full effect.
7. “Seamless Service” provisions for cross-utilizing US Airways and America West agents at overlap stations are established.

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The actual agreement:[/color]

http://www.cwa.net/PDFs/TransitionAgreement.pdf[/font]

 

[Tim Nelson]

Glad to see your back with the name calling.

Go ask John John, there were no improvements gained by the east agents, they didnt negotiate a transition agreement, they are still working under the Chapter 11 CBA, the west was placed under it and now they are in section 6 negotiations.

Those are the facts mr bitter.

You are a "Neo-maxi-zoom-dweebie!"
I don't have to ask John John. The east got bigtime benefits out of that. How you can say otherwise is just a witness to your continued delusionalism as you say "All Hail IAM GOD". Oh boy.

FWIW: to the audience, The Mainline express rates 'of the east' were brought up to mainline pay. Scope was enhanced so that US AIRWAYS employees do all customer service work at all stations, and no res was permitted to be outsourced as of 2010 [I think 2010 was the date but John John can help me out]. Never mind that part of that agreement that 700 says 'didn't improve the working conditions of the east', AGREED to give 3 additional weeks of vacation, 5 more holidays, 7 more sick days at full pay. In other words, all the snapbacks were agreed to.

Unfortunately, Mr 700 has to talk trash about other unions who have done significantly better than the 'non bankruptcy' IAM contract that blows for fleet service. Also, I wonder if our negotiating committee has the balls and heart to do right by the members and negotiate the Holiday option that the IAM stole from our members when Frieberger said that we had to follow mechanic rules.

John John, CWA 1
Mr 700, IAM 0

 

[mike33]

I think a lot of us who were here know who got what and who got " unscrewed" by what agreement. Fact is the PAC serv people got everything back. Period

 

[robbedagain]

thanks 700 for the link
mike your right about the cwa did get everything back i sure hope the iam gets us everything back but only time will tell

 

[pjirish317]

[sup]tim,[/sup]

[sup]Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Fleet have certain "snap-backs" in the original TA that was voted down? And were you not a big advocate against the first TA? To say that the IAM didn't get us "snap-backs" is somewhat of a falsehood isn't it? We voted against them, and ultimately took less of an offer, right? If you are going to tell the facts at least tell all of them. LMFAO.[/sup]

 

[Tim Nelson]

[sup]tim,[/sup]

[sup]Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Fleet have certain "snap-backs" in the original TA that was voted down? And were you not a big advocate against the first TA? To say that the IAM didn't get us "snap-backs" is somewhat of a falsehood isn't it? We voted against them, and ultimately took less of an offer, right? If you are going to tell the facts at least tell all of them. LMFAO.[/sup]

The first ta that was voted down by huge numbers, even by you, was inequitable. It did have snapbacks but it also kept the 90 day rule and more importantly we were fighting to mirror the more important aspects of the CWA agreement, i.e., fighting for scope. I was against both contracts since both were well short of where the other groups on the property were at. All current AGC's were also against both contracts [not sure about Prez but I know Frankie, Nicky, MF, all were against both contracts. You were too.

In fact, me, you and Frankie were getting IBEW cards signed after that first ta which sucked balls because it threw away jobs.

What good are snapbacks or $25 hour if you sign contracts where the scope blows? But you knew that.

 

[700UW]

CWA still lost over 400 res jobs that never came back in-house.

They dont have a pension either.