August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
My feeling is the E75/CR9 will backfill the S80 and US 734 retirements at new AA. This could end up being very similar on the UA 733 and 735 retirements in 2009, all the flying went to UAX and many stations (MHT, MIA, etc) were transitioned to Express.

Josh

absolutely. Replacing 737 routes with e75s will nullify alot of the work if the nc dabbles with the scope language negatively.

 

[robbedagain]

the only thing is that us orders for the 321s is the 734 replacement and from my understanding is that the 734s may be gone by end of next yr accrding to some pilots ive talked to in the past. as for AA i thought their 321s were the MD-80 and 757s replacement

as for scope i believe that our nc team is committed to keeping all the cities we have now and i believe they want to enhance it more and all but given us mgmt tatics and their absolute and complete utter failure to negogiate in good faith and the fact they want to drag it out as long as possible it will be interesting to hear what the nmb will rule if they truly would make a ruling

 

[Harry Callahan]

if you get here you should go to catering ,you and Roa can work the same truck. lmao

ROTFLMAO
Harry.

 

[ograc]

The problem any UNION has, is having MEMBERS who do not believe in SOLIDARITY . We all no them in our work groups/stations they become APATHETIC. They will do what the company wants until their backs are turned. The company (LCC) then has a policy of BLAME and REWARD. They BLAME the UNION and REWARD the Apathetic Company Leaning Member/ACLM. ALL of the UNIONS who have to negotiate with AIRLINES under the NMB RULES have and will continue to have this problem with ACLM ! Contracts now ! Contracts for ALL !

Membership apathy remains a continual under current to any union's ability to make meaningful gains. A succesful leadership team should be focusing on ways to address and correct this. DL 141 NC station visits are a positive first step. Much more needs to be done. The company preys, feeds and gains on this issue.

 

[psa8979]

IAM/TWU LCC/AMR F/S Members will be less apathetic when the future AMR Group Leadership begins to PURGE those LCC/AMR Management who need to GO ! Trust and Respect for the Rank and File by Management and continued communication by the IAM/TWU Leadership and LCC/NC should help restore SOLIDARITY for the Majority of Members.Contracts NOW ! Contracts for ALL ! Gods speed for those lost and injured at SFO ASIANA Flt. 214. GOOD JOB ! First Responders.

 

[freedom]

The best way to fight worker apathy is to radicalize the work force ..... But ironically I'm too tired to attempt it myself at this time .

 

[ograc]

IAM/TWU LCC/AMR F/S Members will be less apathetic when the future AMR Group Leadership begins to PURGE those LCC/AMR Management who need to GO ! Trust and Respect for the Rank and File by Management and continued communication by the IAM/TWU Leadership and LCC/NC should help restore SOLIDARITY for the Majority of Members.Contracts NOW ! Contracts for ALL ! Gods speed for those lost and injured at SFO ASIANA Flt. 214. GOOD JOB ! First Responders.

psa8979,
If you're looking for future AMR Group Leadership to purge the existing leadership this may or may not happen. Regardless of which management team survives; IMO... the surviving management team wil exhibit the same posture toward the organized work force at the combined carrier. Don't look for Trust and Respect, for the rank and file, from any management team. We will continued to be viewed as a neccesary evil, a liability and a drag on the profitibilaty of the combined carrier. Solidarity will be built, without management, from within the rank and file of the membership. This will only be accomplished when the membership is enlightened, educated and realizes the importance of becoming engaged. Our collective future representation, wages, benefits and job protections hang in the balance. The membership needs to realize NOW is the time to engage, unite and be ready to show solidarity! It's apparent to me that without a fight we stand to gain nothing and lose everything.
My position:
LOCK AND LOAD MFers! WE'RE GOIN IN!

 

[robbedagain]

just wondering if the nc team is all finished with their road trips to all of the hubs as well as some cities? and curious to know if there are other cities that are mainline that did not get a visit such as mine and wondering if or when we and the other cities are
if not then why not

 

[ograc]

just wondering if the nc team is all finished with their road trips to all of the hubs as well as some cities? and curious to know if there are other cities that are mainline that did not get a visit such as mine and wondering if or when we and the other cities are
if not then why not

robbedagain,
not sure if the NC is continuing station visits. With no new negotiations talks scheduled at this point... I would hope they continue. It's a great way to accurately inform the membership. IMO... an informed membership is more likely to become involved and engaged. CB or P Rez may be able to shed more light on future visits.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Membership apathy remains a continual under current to any union's ability to make meaningful gains. A succesful leadership team should be focusing on ways to address and correct this. DL 141 NC station visits are a positive first step. Much more needs to be done. The company preys, feeds and gains on this issue.

Bingo! Leadership is charged with building solidarity. Whether directing organizing drives or directing representational arms. Station visits were a good first step but an aggressive plan of action exercising the strategic steps of progressive participatory action should be planned. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any evidence at United or elsewhere where any of these guys have the socializing skillset and education that can make application with anything other than dinosauric methods that have long ago passed us by. Nothing against them, but a true shame. The good thing is that even though they lack skillset, the members still have leverage without a leadership that knows how to initialize the progressive actions that are so highly successful today in this culture.

 

[Tim Nelson]

robbedagain,
not sure if the NC is continuing station visits. With no new negotiations talks scheduled at this point... I would hope they continue. It's a great way to accurately inform the membership. IMO... an informed membership is more likely to become involved and engaged. CB or P Rez may be able to shed more light on future visits.

Informing the membership is one thing, mobilizing them with a plan is something entirely different. Got to be more than a mouthpiece. The latter is what eventually needs to be done, and not with 'actions in the dark'. There are techniques that can be done, 'off the property' that are perfectly legal and within contractual guidelines that will bring new negotiation dates quickly. But such things involve civil right actions as opposed to labor rights. Our union leadership is entirely ignorant and uneducated with this academic and cultural approach. I'm not busting on the IAM because most unions are quite dopey nowadays, SEIU excepted. I really like the SEIU civil actions.

 

[ograc]

During the recent visit in my station we were informed there would be a survey of the membership, coming in the near future, of the membership of DL 141 US Airways Fleet Service employees. The visiting members of the NC explained, in great detail, the advantages and leverage we have being in Section 6 negotiations vs. going directly to Transition Agreement talks with the company. The latter of the two the company supports and has proposed. It was my understanding, based on the NC visit, this would be a question put forth to the membership in the survey. I would strongly encourage all members, prior to completing the survey, to become educated on the stark differences between the two avenues towards a future agreement on our wage, benefit and working conditions.
IMO...
Section 6 = Leverage for your NC.
Transition Agreement Talks = No leverage for your NC.

I hope every member will exercise due diligence before responding to this question on the survey.

 

[charlie Brown]

just wondering if the nc team is all finished with their road trips to all of the hubs as well as some cities? and curious to know if there are other cities that are mainline that did not get a visit such as mine and wondering if or when we and the other cities are
if not then why not

Station visits will continue the 3rd week in July. We had to take a couple of weeks to do other union business, plus a few of the NC members have some personal things to deal with. A update on the survey. We will be meeting with the company( survey company)in the first part of August. Hopefully getting it online the second week. I will update as I get dates specific.

 

[robbedagain]

Ok thanks cb also the survey is that from the company or the union and what is it about

 

[ograc]

Bingo! Leadership is charged with building solidarity. Whether directing organizing drives or directing representational arms. Station visits were a good first step but an aggressive plan of action exercising the strategic steps of progressive participatory action should be planned. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any evidence at United or elsewhere where any of these guys have the socializing skillset and education that can make application with anything other than dinosauric methods that have long ago passed us by. Nothing against them, but a true shame. The good thing is that even though they lack skillset, the members still have leverage without a leadership that knows how to initialize the progressive actions that are so highly successful today in this culture.

I will agree Organized Labor's skillset, concerning building solidarity and organizing, has not kept up with the strategic steps of participatory action available today. IMO... another reason why we see continual decline in union membership. Organized Labor has been attacked, on multiple fronts, for the past two decades. Legislative representatives, backed financially by big business, passing anti-labor legislation is another reason for the decline. In the end though... the shameful present state of Orgainized Labor in this country has primarily been accomplished as the result of a submissive / apathetic labor work force. Real improvement for Organized Labor will only be accomplished when the labor work force adopts the selfless, for the common good attitude, from which Organized Labor was born.