August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[Harry Callahan]

Actually he does have a point, lots of workers dont follow the established policies and procedures and they do race back tho the breakrooms to play on the their computers, watch tv, or play a game of cards.

Unless something has changed since I retired (and I hope it has ) that's CLT.

Harry

 

[cltrat]

Unless something has changed since I retired (and I hope it has ) that's CLT.

Harry

trust me Harry nothing has changed

 

[Harry Callahan]

trust me Harry nothing has changed

Why would I not be surprised rat. Fleet is our own worst enemy.

I also heard mgmt is serving up "goodies " again today.

Harry

 

[Tim Nelson]

Why would I not be surprised rat. Fleet is our own worst enemy.

I also heard mgmt is serving up "goodies " again today.

Harry

fleet isnt the enemy at all. Lets let the processes play out. Things will take time and imo nobosy is close to signing anything. If fleet is the problem then that would only be a reflection of a lack of leadership. Its called trust

 

[P. REZ]

well i think we all have a bk hangover. My point is that there is no wiggle room. Im sure cb believes thats the lowest position he would go but negotiations dont work that way. I would like to think they would stand their ground on their last offer but impasses dont work like that. Cb says they are at an impasse, NOT the nmb and that means they left themselves in a tough negotiated position unfortunately. Even if the nmb issues an impass, the nc put ah in a position where he has to come up 10% more without the union budging. In negotiations you cant blow your load and draw ultimatums without allowing wiggle room. What the iam did do was bait the nmb, because the iam position is so low that if the nmb doesnt take the bait, it will certainly accelerate the process. It also put ah in a position where he looks silly and doesnt have much of an argument. But dont kid yourself, They will eventually meet somewhere between where hemmingway is and where they are. And thats not good enuf.
At any rate, a few corrections. Mike, where did you read that your contract protects 33 stations?in april, the company can contract out every tation except ten. Im more focused on scope than anything because of that.
Amr contract sucks but it has better scope and is worth more than your contract.

Tim,

Why do you assume that there isn't any wiggle room? One has to look at the whole package and I assure you that there is wiggle room. I wish negotiations were as easy as you imply, I've said it before and will say it again, I hope you get selected for a negotiating team some day and you will see that there is nothing easy about it. I will say that what the Company is offering is IMO, garbage. I personally think that in the environment we are in concerning these negotiations is critical to the point that if the Mediator forces us back into negotiations and the Company holds their stance, we will be wasting our time. I stated this to the Mediator last time. Time will tell.

P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

Mr. Nelson............... I haven't commented here for a while, just reading what all the experts have to say! I was just wondering, Why hasn't the district initiated a work safe program? Is it more important to bust your ass for fifty dollars and run back to the breakroom to watch tv, than it is to fight in the trenches and hope Uncle Al will be forthcoming with more .39 cent an hour raises. Why haven't the hubs started to shut down this on time performance, management covets so dearly.

regarding .39 cent raises, it appears at least one agc and a few local chairpersons were mistakenly telling their members that fleet got a 2% pay increase this week. It has now become a viscious myth across the system.

 

[700UW]

Tim you are naive at best.

When we as M&R went on strike in October of 1992, in order to achieve leverage at the table we had to work exactly by the book, in order to put pressure on the company to negotiate in good faith.

Same thing happened in 99 when we voted down one CBA and went into a cooling off period, the only way this company learns is if you hit them in the wallet, thats the bottom line and truth.

Work by the book, hits them in the earnings, and thats when they get serious at the table during Section 6 negotiations.

 

[rockit2]

Obviously you didn't attend your station visit by IAM reps. Otherwise you wouldn't have asked that question.
Or are you just " Prodding " for information?

BTW......there are no experts here as you suggest. Just employees trying to regain things lost in BK.

No I didn't attend, I was one of the twenty percent that didn't get a station visit. No I am not prodding but I do think the district should blow it out like the F/A's did with CHAOS. I have friends in the hubs, that's how I get what I get.

 

[700UW]

First of all the Flight Attendants at US never did CHAOS, you have to be released and it would have to be at the end of the cooling off period.

Secondly the FAs took eight years after the merger to achieve a CBA, you are in your second post chapter 11 CBA talks and the first section 6 negotiations since 1999.

 

[mike33]

No I didn't attend, I was one of the twenty percent that didn't get a station visit. No I am not prodding but I do think the district should blow it out like the F/A's did with CHAOS. I have friends in the hubs, that's how I get what I get.

My bad assumption!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim you are naive at best.

When we as M&R went on strike in October of 1992, in order to achieve leverage at the table we had to work exactly by the book, in order to put pressure on the company to negotiate in good faith.

Same thing happened in 99 when we voted down one CBA and went into a cooling off period, the only way this company learns is if you hit them in the wallet, thats the bottom line and truth.

Work by the book, hits them in the earnings, and thats when they get serious at the table during Section 6 negotiations.

700uw,
I would never be in favor of working unsafe. But one thing the IAM doesn't do is corporate campaigns. Other unions have been quite successful with corporate campaigns 'off the property' that offer incredible support.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

Why do you assume that there isn't any wiggle room? One has to look at the whole package and I assure you that there is wiggle room. I wish negotiations were as easy as you imply, I've said it before and will say it again, I hope you get selected for a negotiating team some day and you will see that there is nothing easy about it. I will say that what the Company is offering is IMO, garbage. I personally think that in the environment we are in concerning these negotiations is critical to the point that if the Mediator forces us back into negotiations and the Company holds their stance, we will be wasting our time. I stated this to the Mediator last time. Time will tell.

P. Rez

To be sure, negotiations are not easy. I've participated in numerous negotiations that have shifted company stances. But it always takes time. And it's not fun for those who are not full time officers to sacrifice their time having to sit in a negotiation room hearing someone talk to them like dogs. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, a sacrifice indeed.

However, my opinion is that the mediator, after a lengthy delay, will get back and order both parties back into negotiations. That would be normal, yes? Certainly, I doubt any ruling happens before everyone knows who wins the MX election.

However, I don't believe further negotiation dates could be a waste in any circumstance if the IAM changed its dinosauric strategy and considered a progressive corporate campaign to add support to the members and put a 'pressure of a different color' on the company and its merger.

I've personally worked with Ray Rogers before, who was arguably the best strategist, and I'm sure the IAM can get a corporate campaign strategist who understands the techniques, and leverage building concepts involved. Otherwise, just walking into a negotiation room, every 4th week, would be tedious and boring.

In negotiations, negotiations NEVER HAPPEN inside a negotiation room. The negotiation room is only the 'image' of negotiations. The only thing that happens there is an exchange of proposals and fussing. The real business is outside that room. How much work did the union do to build leverage leading up to the negotiation session? It amazes me how so many are ignorant and think that AH is going to bite on an empty hook.

Management uses and builds leverage all the time outside the negotiation room. Threats, fear, actions, etc. AH is a pro at it and literally has abused the IAM. He was taught by the best and is worth every penny that management pays him in his duty to beat the union down. He is a professional and should be respected. Walking into negotiations with proposals only is a joke. What will that change?????

Although negotiation strategies, outside the negotiation room, are complex and powerful, in its most generic form, it could include informational picketing. The information being handed out must be strong and send a powerful and thornlike message as well.

IMO, working for the most profitable airline is an exciting thing for our members. This airline has proven that it can standalone and make hundreds of millions of dollars, at least much more than Southwest. So, if AH doesn't want to be reasonable then what's the fuss?

Let me encourage you guys to hang tough in there. IMO, nothing would be worse than bringing something back to the members with the union recommendation to ratify a ta that is not fair. Leverage is great! Patience is key.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I will also say that I am disappointed in the IAM, and most union leaderships, who haven't shifted the winning techniques with the changing culture.

There should be no waiting around for mediator decisions. Time does waste, so it seems. Maneuvering, in legal ways, by exercising civil rights [off the property], as opposed to labor rights, on the property, is quite powerful, and quite effective, and should be organized and initiated by the leadership. Most of the labor rights have been collared anyways since they are contractually bound and could be illegal.

There is a reason why unions have sucked bad in this country of late. The leadership [not meaning the NC] are outmatched and highly uneducated on adapting historical techniques and movements to the changing culture. The fact that bargaining agents can't make application with winning techniques by evolving them into this century is perhaps the main reason why they are fading.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The TWU also negotiated a equity stake of the "New American" of 4.8%. Unfortunately, the US AIRWAYS IAM fleet got no profit sharing, no equity, no nothing.

Kindly review the TWU's examples of what a full time fleet service agent may get. Although nobody can no for sure what the share price will be, the example assumes a $12,500 worth. Click Here then click 'the presentation'

 

[Tim Nelson]

OTOH, here is what normally happens in the negotiation room Click Here