August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[mike33]

The last proposal put forth to the company is what the NC feels they "absolutely need" in a TA that has any chance of being ratified. AH and the company balked and declared the IAM's demands "extreme and outrageous" in their letter to the NMB. The union's position is that the demands are fair and duly deserved of a Fleet Service group who has been through two concessionary BK contracts and a Transition Agreement. A group who is attempting to regain, some of what has been sacrificed in past years, before entering into Transition Talks, that will make them part of the largest carrier in the industry. A position that a Federal Mediator should see as reasonable. A position that constitutes negotiating in good faith. Although proposing wage and benefit increases that were off the charts, was certainly an option for the NC, I believe they would have been met with the same resistance by the company and more importantly, viewed by the Mediator, as unreasonable and a failure to negotiate in good faith. Negotiating in good faith is an expectation of the NMB from both parties. I believe, it would be in the membership's best interst, that our NC's proposals are viewed as reaonable and negotiating in good faith by the Mediator and the NMB at this point.

E X A C T L Y !


How can AH possibly think that getting back to square one is unreasonable. Oh i can't wait for the DOJ to approve this merger. Then we will see how much this company values you and where this chest match ends up.....I would love a happy ending or this could get ugly!

 

[Tim Nelson]

The last proposal put forth to the company is what the NC feels they "absolutely need" in a TA that has any chance of being ratified. AH and the company balked and declared the IAM's demands "extreme and outrageous" in their letter to the NMB. The union's position is that the demands are fair and duly deserved of a Fleet Service group who has been through two concessionary BK contracts and a Transition Agreement. A group who is attempting to regain, some of what has been sacrificed in past years, before entering into Transition Talks, that will make them part of the largest carrier in the industry. A position that a Federal Mediator should see as reasonable. A position that constitutes negotiating in good faith. Although proposing wage and benefit increases that were off the charts, was certainly an option for the NC, I believe they would have been met with the same resistance by the company and more importantly, viewed by the Mediator, as unreasonable and a failure to negotiate in good faith. Negotiating in good faith is an expectation of the NMB from both parties. I believe, it would be in the membership's best interst, that our NC's proposals are viewed as reaonable and negotiating in good faith by the Mediator and the NMB at this point.

More than reasonable. Not sure what there is to negotiate if we already gave the company its last offer. If management doesnt want to come up to the low bar then why bother meeting?

 

[charlie Brown]

Again,
Everyone keep in mind, where we started and where we are at with our last proposal is worlds apart. We are past the negotiations stage. Some of you are acting like this is where we started, and nothing could be further from the truth. This was our last proposal, meaning we are done. We are at a impasse and we have told the mediator, we can't move off these items. If we were still in the give and take mode of negotiations, then you wouldn't ask to be released. That wouldn't be considered a impass.

 

[robbedagain]

cb it sounds like you folks are doing a he!! of a dam good job the quest is do you know when the nmb is going to rule or if they will rule on anything?

 

[mike33]

Im disappointed robbed again. Disappointed in that we had to hear what our nc was asking for thru management. And also disappointed in that the nc has set the bar real low. Lets hope they at least are seeking full scope enhancements withouth 141 rising drop dead dates

If you think that you heard something of substance besides Tactical "Whinning"in AH's letter, then look further than a letter of tears and embrace what the NC is fighting for. Lets look at some pertinent information.....

AA .........Jets = 600
Protected cities = 17 ( @ 7 flts a day till amendable date and then it becomes 15 a day)
Pay coming out of BK = $ 22.63
Given up in BK = Pension / Profit share / Jobs / Some insurance De-hancements
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
US...........300 Jets
35 protected cities
Some of the best, industry leading insurance

So called " Low Bar" we are looking at..

Full Sick Pay
5th week of vacation
10 Holidays
Better " Scope "
Seniority Protection
$ 22.62 Hr

To me thats not Low Baring it. Thats realizing there is a possible transition coming to make us possibly the most profitable airline
@ 1 Billion per year ( By their own projections to their stockholders and the general public )

So DP needs to step in and get this done for the good of his own employees. The same employees that read everyday in US Daily what a wonderful job we have been doing. Keep your $50 and reward us with a contract of worth..... Is that unreasonable? or do you have BK Hangover?

 

[Tim Nelson]

If you think that you heard something of substance besides Tactical "Whinning"in AH's letter, then look further than a letter of tears and embrace what the NC is fighting for. Lets look at some pertinent information.....

AA .........Jets = 600
Protected cities = 17 ( @ 7 flts a day till amendable date and then it becomes 15 a day)
Pay coming out of BK = $ 22.63
Given up in BK = Pension / Profit share / Jobs / Some insurance De-hancements
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
US...........300 Jets
35 protected cities
Some of the best, industry leading insurance

So called " Low Bar" we are looking at..

Full Sick Pay
5th week of vacation
10 Holidays
Better " Scope "
Seniority Protection
$ 22.62 Hr

To me thats not Low Baring it. Thats realizing there is a possible transition coming to make us possibly the most profitable airline
@ 1 Billion per year ( By their own projections to their stockholders and the general public )

So DP needs to step in and get this done for the good of his own employees. The same employees that read everyday in US Daily what a wonderful job we have been doing. Keep your $50 and reward us with a contract of worth..... Is that unreasonable? or do you have BK Hangover?

well i think we all have a bk hangover. My point is that there is no wiggle room. Im sure cb believes thats the lowest position he would go but negotiations dont work that way. I would like to think they would stand their ground on their last offer but impasses dont work like that. Cb says they are at an impasse, NOT the nmb and that means they left themselves in a tough negotiated position unfortunately. Even if the nmb issues an impass, the nc put ah in a position where he has to come up 10% more without the union budging. In negotiations you cant blow your load and draw ultimatums without allowing wiggle room. What the iam did do was bait the nmb, because the iam position is so low that if the nmb doesnt take the bait, it will certainly accelerate the process. It also put ah in a position where he looks silly and doesnt have much of an argument. But dont kid yourself, They will eventually meet somewhere between where hemmingway is and where they are. And thats not good enuf.
At any rate, a few corrections. Mike, where did you read that your contract protects 33 stations?in april, the company can contract out every tation except ten. Im more focused on scope than anything because of that.
Amr contract sucks but it has better scope and is worth more than your contract.

 

[mike33]

At any rate, a few corrections. Mike, where did you read that your contract protects 33 stations?in april, the company can contract out every tation except ten. Im more focused on scope than anything because of that.
Amr contract sucks but it has better scope and is worth more than your contract.

I believe the M.O.U. that the TWU signed protects them yes. Is it better than ours? in our present contract i dont believe so. Yes there is an April annualized threshold and i dont know what the annualized number would be at that time. But, didnt the NC neg a freeze for i think 1 yr?. In any case i dont know what the new scope language is. I was mostly referring to and comparing what is signed at the present for comparison sake. They have signed and we have yet too......

 

[Kev3188]

AH and the company balked and declared the IAM's demands "extreme and outrageous" in their letter to the NMB.

Of course he did. Would anyone expect anything less?

 

[Tim Nelson]

I believe the M.O.U. that the TWU signed protects them yes. Is it better than ours? in our present contract i dont believe so. Yes there is an April annualized threshold and i dont know what the annualized number would be at that time. But, didnt the NC neg a freeze for i think 1 yr?. In any case i dont know what the new scope language is. I was mostly referring to and comparing what is signed at the present for comparison sake. They have signed and we have yet too......

AH recognized the entire amr contract and then proceeded to toss amr an additional 4.3%...in bankruptcy.
It reasonably follows that our members should be getting more from AH since usairways is not a bankript carrier but making hundreds of millions. Thus my reasonable assumption is that cb and the nc have a final proposal that addresses scope much better than drop dead stamps and enhances it. Surely they are striving for how the cwa has taken care of its members which has a cwa member in every station. So even thougb amr has a more favorable flight threashold for fleet than the usairways fleet scope, i wouldassume the nc arent knuckleheads and are seeking language that is similar to existing language that is already on the property. Then again, i also thought their leverage outside of bankruptcy allowed them to negotiate a higher wage than the standalone bankrupt amr.
As far as scope, everything that is not a class one station can be contracted out. And i think having a station become class 1 if it has 20 flights a day at amr, or 25 at usairways, is a barset too high. We have leverage to fix this. Amr twu was in bankruptcy and was not in section 6. Our nc is in section 6 and negotiating against the most profitable airline. Lets hope that the nc recognizes that its leverage is superior than the twu, and that it doesnt panic if things drag out.
In the meantime, there will be time to educate the members with other resources that are from other sources than the iam.

 

[rockit2]

well i think we all have a bk hangover. My point is that there is no wiggle room. Im sure cb believes thats the lowest position he would go but negotiations dont work that way. I would like to think they would stand their ground on their last offer but impasses dont work like that. Cb says they are at an impasse, NOT the nmb and that means they left themselves in a tough negotiated position unfortunately. Even if the nmb issues an impass, the nc put ah in a position where he has to come up 10% more without the union budging. In negotiations you cant blow your load and draw ultimatums without allowing wiggle room. What the iam did do was bait the nmb, because the iam position is so low that if the nmb doesnt take the bait, it will certainly accelerate the process. It also put ah in a position where he looks silly and doesnt have much of an argument. But dont kid yourself, They will eventually meet somewhere between where hemmingway is and where they are. And thats not good enuf.
At any rate, a few corrections. Mike, where did you read that your contract protects 33 stations?in april, the company can contract out every tation except ten. Im more focused on scope than anything because of that.
Amr contract sucks but it has better scope and is worth more than your contract.

Mr. Nelson............... I haven't commented here for a while, just reading what all the experts have to say! I was just wondering, Why hasn't the district initiated a work safe program? Is it more important to bust your ass for fifty dollars and run back to the breakroom to watch tv, than it is to fight in the trenches and hope Uncle Al will be forthcoming with more .39 cent an hour raises. Why haven't the hubs started to shut down this on time performance, management covets so dearly.

 

[700UW]

The members have been told to work by the book at union meetings and at the negotiations update meeting.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Gonna' be fun to read Mister Nelson's rants when the US ORD fleet guys become TWU members.

 

[700UW]

LOL, especially when the TWU President in DFW wrote a nice letter about Tim.

 

[mike33]

Mr. Nelson............... I haven't commented here for a while, just reading what all the experts have to say! I was just wondering, Why hasn't the district initiated a work safe program? Is it more important to bust your ass for fifty dollars and run back to the breakroom to watch tv, than it is to fight in the trenches and hope Uncle Al will be forthcoming with more .39 cent an hour raises. Why haven't the hubs started to shut down this on time performance, management covets so dearly.

Obviously you didn't attend your station visit by IAM reps. Otherwise you wouldn't have asked that question.
Or are you just " Prodding " for information?

BTW......there are no experts here as you suggest. Just employees trying to regain things lost in BK.

 

[700UW]

Actually he does have a point, lots of workers dont follow the established policies and procedures and they do race back to the breakrooms to play on the their computers, watch tv, or play a game of cards.