August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

Certainly management hires folks to outsmart the unions, but I don't see why their superior intellect means we have to blame, attack, and bloody each other. Are we really that stupid? I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence. Greed, fear, and scruples (lack their of) can out whit the smartest who have none of the above.

Collectively, we sure act stupid. Forrest Gump said something about that. I don't make it a habit of attacking others who may disagree with my point of view, unless they pick on me first.

The union, as an institution, deserves whatever criticism it earns - kinda like Congress. Union elected officials, whether officers or reps, like congressmen, deserve the same when they do stupid things.

Case in point. At the last BPR meeting one of the reps, whose name I won't mention, and whom I consider to be intelligent, actually stated that perhaps a message should be sent out to the membership to begin socking away money in case a job action is necessary next spring. He did so with a straight face. He was serious.....seriously.

 

[Phoenix]

Managment intelligence is not a factor either way. So long as USAPA is emotionally committed to an untenable position rather than objectively accepting the reality of the situation, all Management has to do is sit back and enjoy $100+ Million savings each year in pilot wages. When they go even further by blatantly violating the status quo and getting a federal injunction for it, well it's like Christmas everyday courtesy of USAPA. Perhaps a federal court can force USAPA to accept reality, but the west and Management certainly can't.

Collectively, we sure act stupid. Forrest Gump said something about that. I don't make it a habit of attacking others who may disagree with my point of view, unless they pick on me first.

The union, as an institution, deserves whatever criticism it earns - kinda like Congress. Union elected officials, whether officers or reps, like congressmen, deserve the same when they do stupid things.

Case in point. At the last BPR meeting one of the reps, whose name I won't mention, and whom I consider to be intelligent, actually stated that perhaps a message should be sent out to the membership to begin socking away money in case a job action is necessary next spring. He did so with a straight face. He was serious.....seriously.

Wow, only two posts about how stupid (and deserving) the pilots are. Evidently, it could have been far more if the company were just a little smarter.

I think there may be another theorem in there somewhere.

 

[Metroyet]

Collectively, we sure act stupid. Forrest Gump said something about that. I don't make it a habit of attacking others who may disagree with my point of view, unless they pick on me first.

The union, as an institution, deserves whatever criticism it earns - kinda like Congress. Union elected officials, whether officers or reps, like congressmen, deserve the same when they do stupid things.

Case in point. At the last BPR meeting one of the reps, whose name I won't mention, and whom I consider to be intelligent, actually stated that perhaps a message should be sent out to the membership to begin socking away money in case a job action is necessary next spring. He did so with a straight face. He was serious.....seriously.

what is the West guilty of? Two things really, playing by the rules and trusting that the other two parties to the TA would as well. That's it. That is the full measure of the Wests culpability in this East designed abortion.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Wow, only two posts about how stupid (and deserving) the pilots are. Evidently, it could have been far more if the company were just a little smarter.

I didn't say deserving. And I can't wait to hear what your solution is. You have the floor.

 

[Piedmont1984]

what is the West guilty of? Two things really, playing by the rules and trusting that the other two parties to the TA would as well. That's it. That is the full measure of the Wests culpability in this East designed abortion.

I may happen to think that DOH was and still is a bridge too far, but your near fanatical embrace of what is a wretched seniority award is also partly to blame for 6.5 years of stalemate. An award which placed a new hire, on probation, ahead of a company veteran and long standing dues paying ALPA member, prompted ALPA to change its merger policy, cost this entire pilot group tens of millions of $ and forever poisoned the relationship between east and west.

And angry emotion has never been the exclusive domain of the east. Your former MEC chairman was not dispassionate when he declared war on a newly and legally elected union. The antics by some of the west, although not rising to the level of a RICO, was pure angry emotion. The jumpseat denials were based on emotion. The pilot who stood up at a crew news session to declare 'we hate you guys' was the poster boy of angry emotion.

We have our own version (east and west) of the TEA Party - Totally Enslaved by Anger.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Wow, only two posts about how stupid (and deserving) the pilots are. Evidently, it could have been far more if the company were just a little smarter.

I think there may be another theorem in there somewhere.

Pilots unified in one theorem is that there is commonality in disunity. I think herding cats come to mind.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I may happen to think that DOH was and still is a bridge too far, but your near fanatical embrace of what is a wretched seniority award is also partly to blame for 6.5 years of stalemate. An award which placed a new hire, on probation, ahead of a company veteran and long standing dues paying ALPA member, prompted ALPA to change its merger policy, cost this entire pilot group tens of millions of $ and forever poisoned the relationship between east and west.

And angry emotion has never been the exclusive domain of the east. Your former MEC chairman was not dispassionate when he declared war on a newly and legally elected union. The antics by some of the west, although not rising to the level of a RICO, was pure angry emotion. The jumpseat denials were based on emotion. The pilot who stood up at a crew news session to declare 'we hate you guys' was the poster boy of angry emotion.

We have our own version (east and west) of the TEA Party - Totally Enslaved by Anger.

We could all use a lot more of Romans 12...
" Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men"

 

[Phoenix]

Pilots unified in one theorem is that there is commonality in disunity. I think herding cats come to mind.

Yes, the premise one must accept to join a union is that one is dissatisfied, and is willing to give up a portion of what he has in exchange for a promise that he can get more (ie. dues in exchange for a CBA). Once everyone is bound together, a sudden awareness may occur... a portion of what the minority has can be exchanged for a promise to the majority to get more (or lose less, a la LOA 93, interalia ). But its ok, no one joins a union anymore. They have all been replaced by mere "associations".

 

[Phoenix]

Collectively, we sure act stupid. Forrest Gump said something about that. I don't make it a habit of attacking others who may disagree with my point of view, unless they pick on me first.

The union, as an institution, deserves whatever criticism it earns - kinda like Congress. Union elected officials, whether officers or reps, like congressmen, deserve the same when they do stupid things.

Case in point. At the last BPR meeting one of the reps, whose name I won't mention, and whom I consider to be intelligent, actually stated that perhaps a message should be sent out to the membership to begin socking away money in case a job action is necessary next spring. He did so with a straight face. He was serious.....seriously.

I didn't say deserving. And I can't wait to hear what your solution is. You have the floor.

I yield the balance of my time.

 

[Phoenix]

what is the West guilty of? Two things really, playing by the rules and trusting that the other two parties to the TA would as well. That's it. That is the full measure of the Wests culpability in this East designed abortion.

This is the point where you tell us the standard of DFR and articulate your injury in fact, or in the alternative you provide additional proof for the RR Theorem by lambasting the East for choosing to remain on LOA 93.

 

[luvthe9]

Good Letter.....................
[background=transparent][background=transparent]Fellow Pilots;[/background][/background]

[background=transparent] I am writing this email to show my complete support for Bill McKee and the CLT reps in the group grievance against the company for disparate treatment for pilots who become medically disqualified! The USAPA president [/background]
[background=transparent]should be held in high regard and his actions should be beyond question. I regret this is not the case. By the company considering Gary Hummel as current, allowing him to accrue sick time when actually he is recovering from major surgery, and paying him a salary instead of him being on LTD his highly unethical and divisive to the pilot group as a whole! As a pilot with USAirways I have to ask myself why would they do this? I'm afraid my conclusions result in nefarious thoughts. I encourage my pilot friends to not only support your actions on behalf of the pilot group, but to pick up issue by writing an email and express themselves against the company by writing the above addressed groups. ACT NOW....Thankyou.[/background]

[background=transparent]Gene L. Scamehorn[/background]
[background=transparent]B737/FO CLT[/background]

 

[luvthe9]

We are where we are because of a really stupid 'safety first campaign' which brought the injunction which renders us toothless and declawed. Now who was the architect of that brilliant scheme?

Guys like you "render us toothless and declawed".

 

[traderjake]

Guys like you "render us toothless and declawed".

You're kind of angry for a old guy.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Guys like you "render us toothless and declawed".

Guys like you spread rabies.

 

[crazystnic]

Hummell should resign. He shouldn't get special treatment like he is getting. End of story.