August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Zone5]

Would you rather be water boarded or bombed by an Obama drone?

If I have to choose I'm gonna go with water boarding.

I'm with you on this one. I've actually been "water boarded", it was called SERE Training (survival, evasion, resistance and escape), not a lot of fun, but by design, "survivable", unlike being on the receiving end of a drone attack!

On the other hand, imposition of the "NIC", would not be "recoverable" for me personally, it would render me a 30 year career (never furloughed, at least not yet) F/O, with the "Nickster" "senior" to me, still here after I retire at 65 for 22 more years! I will NEVER support ANYTHING that would make that happen!


seajay

 

[Zone5]

President Obama Signs Indefinite Detention Into Law

The ACLU believes that any military detention of American citizens or others within the United States is unconstitutional and illegal, including under the NDAA. In addition, the breadth of the NDAA’s detention authority violates international law because it is not limited to people captured in the context of an actual armed conflict as required by the laws of war.

https://www.aclu.org...e-detention-law

OK, as long as the ACLU has no problem with it, then it must be OK! Of course we are talking about the same ACLU that thinks the MAMBLA (man boy love association) is "right on "! Really!?


seajay

 

[traderjake]

I'm with you on this one. I've actually been "water boarded", it was called SERE Training (survival, evasion, resistance and escape), not a lot of fun, but by design, "survivable", unlike being on the receiving end of a drone attack!

Did it feel like you were going to die or is that an exaggeration?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Did it feel like you were going to die or is that an exaggeration?

Depends on how it's administered. I suppose some interrogators have better skills than others, or are more 'enthusiastic' about applying their craft. But I didn't feel like I was going to die.

 

[Graceson]

Depends on how it's administered. I suppose some interrogators have better skills than others, or are more 'enthusiastic' about applying their craft. But I didn't feel like I was going to die.

So true. Unfortunately, I was pig number 13. Anything anyone did to resist indoctrination, I was punished. I resisted to the point of physical collapse. They called an academic situation on me. Claimed, in actual captivity, I'd be dead. Said I'd have to repeat the program unless I give the enemy something...anything of little consequence. So I talked my unit into letting me be the designated one -- I escaped. LOL.

 

[Zone5]

Did it feel like you were going to die or is that an exaggeration?

The physiological response to being "water boarded" creates a very real autonomic reaction, being in a "training" environment and knowing that actual death was highly unlikely certainly made the experience psychologically "tolerable". I could see where a person being subjected to a "real world" application of this technique could very well believe otherwise.


seajay

 

[EastUS1]

The physiological response to being "water boarded" creates a very real autonomic reaction, being in a "training" environment and knowing that actual death was highly unlikely certainly made the experience psychologically "tolerable". I could see where a person being subjected to a "real world" application of this technique could very well believe otherwise.


seajay

Agreed. While being the SRO of my little band afforded me some additional "favors"; I found it possible to somewhat play pretend "hero", ONLY through full-well knowing that it all was merely training of short duration, that by definition, wasn't designed to even physically ruin one for future duty, much less kill. I honestly can't even imagine how no-holds-barred torture would be for real though. I've had the true privledge of lengthy discussions with two gentlemen who were long-term inmates of the Hanoi Hilton, and I can't do other than stand in awe at how they lived through all that for years, never knowing if they'd eventually be killed, or ever see home again.

 

[Claxon]

Agreed. While being the SRO of my little band afforded me some additional "favors"; I found it possible to somewhat play "hero", ONLY through full-well knowing that it all was merely training of short duration, that by definition, wasn't designed to even physically ruin one for future duty, much less kill. I honestly can't even imagine how no-holds-barred torture would be for real though. I've had the true privledge of lengthy discussions with two gentlemen who were long-term inmates of the Hanoi Hilton, and I can't do other than stand in awe at how they lived through all that for years, never knowing if they'd eventually be killed, or ever see home again.

One might imagine Prechillil to be highly resistant to the application of gas to extract information owing to her numerous sniffing expeditions to the seats of the Mighty 330.
Her SERE training has allowed her to escape undetected on numerous forays.

 

[Graceson]

Agreed. While being the SRO of my little band afforded me some additional "favors"; I found it possible to somewhat play "hero", ONLY through full-well knowing that it all was merely training of short duration, that by definition, wasn't designed to even physically ruin one for future duty, much less kill. I honestly can't even imagine how no-holds-barred torture would be for real though. I've had the true privledge of lengthy discussions with two gentlemen who were long-term inmates of the Hanoi Hilton, and I can't do other than stand in awe at how they lived through all that for years, never knowing if they'd eventually be killed, or ever see home again.

Was one of them Tom M.?

 

[EastUS1]

Was one of them Tom M.?

Neg. The most commonly known and longest term prisoner of the two was Col. Thorsness, who was an amazingly humble man about all his experiences, especially considering his aerial achievements. The other gent was of the Triple Nickels, who'd gotten dropped in an F4, and if I recall correctly now, went down about three years before all that survived the Hilton finally got home. Since he wasn't so much of a public figure; I'll properly leave his name to himself.

 

[EastUS1]

One might imagine Prechillil to be highly resistant to the application of gas to extract information owing to her numerous sniffing expeditions to the seats of the Mighty 330.
Her SERE training has allowed her to escape undetected on numerous forays.

I'd suggest some caution here, since that self-styled "seasoned aviator" has been known to threaten people with her Beechcraft Bonanza before!

 

[crazystnic]

Is this pilot group stupid enough to belive that mgmt can't pay the pilots industry standard or even the MOU deal without the merger?

The cost 100 M a year...

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/10/09/cream-rises-to-the-top-in-the-airline-industry.aspx

 

[CallawayGolf]

Is this pilot group stupid enough to belive that mgmt can't pay the pilots industry standard or even the MOU deal without the merger?

The cost 100 M a year...

http://www.fool.com/...e-industry.aspx

Of course they can't. The east pilots refuse to allow any such improvements to come while they are in charge of things.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Of course they can't. The east pilots refuse to allow any such improvements to come while they are in charge of things.

Run along now and turn in those "BAD EAST PILOTS" for 3 engine taxi, glad to see the AOL whinery is still open!

 

[EastUS1]

Of course they can't. The east pilots refuse to allow any such improvements to come while they are in charge of things.

ANY actions towards actually forcing improvements would only be met with the likes of your fearless "leaders" eagerly asking of management if they could "turn in" their supposedly fellow pilots anyway. What's your point? Has the west now tired of cheering on injunctions against the union? Sigh! With the likes of mighty "spartans" on one's team...who needs any management foes? You've made of yourselves nothing more than management's willing (and even eager) little "usefull idiots", and they fully know the caliber of your group. Are you now at all even implying that giving "you'se" the nic would in ANY way change your group's VERY-well-demonstrated "character"? Thanks for the Joke of the Day.

PS: You fine and mighty Rep cactusboy53 exhibited the full extent of "spartan"..umm..."character" to my complete disgust, but forced some understanding of the types being dealt with = "This is Sparta!...I'll let the courts do my talking for me."