August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

Crystal. Of the two groups - Management and USAPA/east, which one is proposing to do more harm to the west via contract negotiations today (or over the last five years if you prefer)?

Thanks for making my point, even far better than my earlier rantings possibly could. West notions of loyalty to "fellow pilots" amount to nothing more than "What's in for me!?" For what it's worth; you may all rest easy on my ever even thinking of "turning in" any of you, but then; even such a creature as myself was blessed with some semblance of a spine at birth, and suffered no subsequent surgical removal of my entire cache of moral principles.

As for "more harm to the west"? = Waaah! What a fine (if incredibly short-sighted) rationalization for being complete, company stooges.

Paint things as you wish. Methinks you're worthless as even supposedly possible "allies" in anything, nic or not.

 

[traderjake]

Actually thank you DAN, but the point is you've been given resources, a sin to waste them, thanx for the compliment buddy! Did you check out RT!?

You're welcome, someone has to be out there working so the rest of us can spend time with our families.

Enjoy your second job, I'll enjoy my time off.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

We must differ there. I will treat anyone on the jumpseat as a professional and a guest...whether the particular individual's actually worthy of that or not. That's just a matter of personal principles and an effort to respect the now-only-supposed, but once-great profession.

Well good for you, when your picture gets taken and ur in the office PM me, we will talk, so good for you, myself, they have let us say, scrooged themselves! Do not get mad, just get happy!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Thanks for making my point, even far better than my earlier rantings possibly could. West notions of loyalty to "fellow pilots" amount to nothing more than "What's in for me!?"

As for "more harm to the west"? = Waaah! What a fine (if incredibly short-sighted) rationalization for being complete, company stooges.

So west pilots should get on board with the east pilot schemes to harm the west pilots more than Management would dream of doing so as to artificially advance the careers and paychecks of the east pilots out of a greater sense of loyalty and/or not wanting to be called short-sighted stooges? At what point did rational thinking abandon you today?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You're welcome, someone has to be out there working so the rest of us can spend time with our families.

Enjoy your second job, I'll enjoy my time off.

I DO THANX!

 

[EastUS1]

So west pilots should....

Nah...Just keep living life in an "It's ALL about MEEE!" framework...and realize that relieves you entirely of any opportunity/responsibility for ever becoming part of anything larger than your own petty concerns. That's your problem, and isn't even contagious as an airborne viral infection...thank God!

Whenever people tell and show you who and what they truly are...Believe them!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

So west pilots should get on board with the east pilot schemes to harm the west pilots more than Management would dream of doing so as to artificially advance the careers and paychecks of the east pilots out of a greater sense of loyalty and/or not wanting to be called short-sighted stooges? At what point did rational thinking abandon you today?

So EAST pilots should get on board with the WEST pilot schemes to harm the EAST pilots more than Management would dream of doing so as to artificially advance the careers and paychecks of the WEST pilots out of a greater sense of loyalty and/or not wanting to be called short-sighted stooges? At what point did rational thinking abandon you today

 

[EastUS1]

Well good for you, when your picture gets taken and ur in the office PM me, we will talk, so good for you, myself, they have let us say, scrooged themselves! Do not get mad, just get happy!

I don't dismiss your reasonable concerns there. I just can't/won't change principles and habits of many years to fret over that possiblility.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I don't dismiss your reasonable concerns there. I just can't/won't change principles and habits of many years to fret over that possiblility.

Understood, trust me, wish it was different, but it isn't, be careful!

 

[CallawayGolf]

So EAST pilots should get on board with the WEST pilot schemes to harm the EAST pilots more than Management would dream of doing so as to artificially advance the careers and paychecks of the WEST pilots out of a greater sense of loyalty and/or not wanting to be called short-sighted stooges? At what point did rational thinking abandon you today

The reverse as you tried to make just isn't true in the least. The NIC is not a west scheme it is the list produced by a neutral third-party as a result of a contractual arrangement with the Company and the two pilot groups. The West pilots had no control or discernible input as to what the arbitrator produced. Furthermore, the west pilots, now that USAPA has removed separate representation from them, couldn't change the NIC if they wanted to. The Company is demanding the NIC unless it is shown that a non-NIC list is legal and will not open them up to a lawsuit by one or more pilots, east or west.

Holding the relative seniority position that you had before the merger is not an artificial advancement; it's not an advancement at all. Going from furloughed status to captain (by displacing a line-holding captain) is without question an artificial advancement. Furthermore, what % of wage improvements of $100M, $200M or whatever would go to east vs. west pilots? Would the wage improvements be equal under a JCBA or would the east get dramatically more of the negotiated wage pie on a per pilot basis?

The question was, what rational person would help another group breach a contractual obligation in order to harm themselves so that the group bringing the harm and breaching the contract can get their way (and their jobs of course). On the contrary, the east is not harmed by the implementation of the NIC as it does not displace active pilots from their seats with someone who was not active or holding a mainline seat at the time of the merger.

 

[EastUS1]

The NIC is not a west scheme...

Aww! How wewy pwescious! Cut the innocent babes-in-the-woods/"victims" BS. If the "west" wanted to work out something mutually amenable; it could have well been done. "Wye" wasn't that even seriously attempted?

Let me refresh your obviously faulty memory here. Do you at all remember that just post-nic-announcement time, when I first came to this board, with the following observation: "Ummm...Guys and Gals...this nic thing isn't really going to work"?, only to be met with incredibly infantile nonsense the likes of (and I quote) "Booyooshaka!"...."Final and Binding!"...."It's OVER!..Get used to it!"? Later followed of course, by the now insanely funny "You won't even get 200 cards!"..."Send the cards...I DARE you!"?

No matter at this point, I suppose. Go "Spartans"!

 

[prechilill]

I'd suggest some caution here, since that self-styled "seasoned aviator" has been known to threaten people with her Beechcraft Bonanza before!

Lol

Do you even have any money to own an airplane??? You have nothing, don't you??

All hot air... A crotchety old guy with nothing to show for it.

13 days!!!

 

[EastUS1]

Lol

Do you even have any money to own an airplane??? You have nothing, don't you??

All hot air... A crotchety old guy with nothing to show for it.

13 days!!!

Wager's always open, little "spartan" princess/"seasoned aviator" May I take that as an acceptance? Wager only what stakes you can afford in cash and PM for agreeable terms/details and scheduling arrangements.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The reverse as you tried to make just isn't true in the least. The NIC is not a west scheme it is the list produced by a neutral third-party as a result of a contractual arrangement with the Company and the two pilot groups. The West pilots had no control or discernible input as to what the arbitrator produced. Furthermore, the west pilots, now that USAPA has removed separate representation from them, couldn't change the NIC if they wanted to. The Company is demanding the NIC unless it is shown that a non-NIC list is legal and will not open them up to a lawsuit by one or more pilots, east or west.

Holding the relative seniority position that you had before the merger is not an artificial advancement; it's not an advancement at all. Going from furloughed status to captain (by displacing a line-holding captain) is without question an artificial advancement. Furthermore, what % of wage improvements of $100M, $200M or whatever would go to east vs. west pilots? Would the wage improvements be equal under a JCBA or would the east get dramatically more of the negotiated wage pie on a per pilot basis?

The question was, what rational person would help another group breach a contractual obligation in order to harm themselves so that the group bringing the harm and breaching the contract can get their way (and their jobs of course). On the contrary, the east is not harmed by the implementation of the NIC as it does not displace active pilots from their seats with someone who was not active or holding a mainline seat at the time of the merger.

THe NIC is a product of a NATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT"CHANGES POLICY" As it sees FIT, the games rules are so called put into play by the majority of players by majority rule, a shame that stuff kinda backfires, NEUTRAL, like a ref with certain rules, amazing how those change aint it, Let

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The reverse as you tried to make just isn't true in the least. The NIC is not a west scheme it is the list produced by a neutral third-party as a result of a contractual arrangement with the Company and the two pilot groups. The West pilots had no control or discernible input as to what the arbitrator produced. Furthermore, the west pilots, now that USAPA has removed separate representation from them, couldn't change the NIC if they wanted to. The Company is demanding the NIC unless it is shown that a non-NIC list is legal and will not open them up to a lawsuit by one or more pilots, east or west.

Holding the relative seniority position that you had before the merger is not an artificial advancement; it's not an advancement at all. Going from furloughed status to captain (by displacing a line-holding captain) is without question an artificial advancement. Furthermore, what % of wage improvements of $100M, $200M or whatever would go to east vs. west pilots? Would the wage improvements be equal under a JCBA or would the east get dramatically more of the negotiated wage pie on a per pilot basis?

The question was, what rational person would help another group breach a contractual obligation in order to harm themselves so that the group bringing the harm and breaching the contract can get their way (and their jobs of course). On the contrary, the east is not harmed by the implementation of the NIC as it does not displace active pilots from their seats with someone who was not active or holding a mainline seat at the time of the merger.

Who has displaced a line holding captain? OK I will bite when ur displaced by PHX being closed who should lose their job, the guy holding a CAPT position 10 years hired before the west guy or the EAST guy put 12 years down on the NIC?