At Your Next TWU Local Union Meeting...

[strikeforce]

Content?

If I was back at DFW or up at ORD working midnight line with a 3 cent shift differential and no line premium, I would defiantly NOT be content. AFW is not content, and the AMP drive has gone very well here, why is that, when we have weekends off and most of the base works days? Like I said before without leadership that is what you get and the guys that don't care will always be their dragging the rest of us down, just like the twu international wants.

we can go round and round on this issue, but what's the solution here? I understand about the intl, but what's up with the negotiating team? This is made up of guys we work with. Why are they failing at the table? There has to be a root cause as to why the company continuously plays the negotiations group, and why there's no fight? This has been the case in all negotiations since I started in 1989.
We seem to notice a pattern every time we enter negotiations......we give multiple proposals to the company and then negotiations stall....and then the company hands some ridiculous first offer and we jump on it......and then we use the excuse that we need to bring it to the membership because it's up to us to decide. Always deferring blame back to the membership if it's accepted. I'm afraid the same idiots that are on the current negotiating committee will be on AMP's Board of Directors. Different union....same people. Not good!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

we can go round and round on this issue, but what's the solution here? I understand about the intl, but what's up with the negotiating team? This is made up of guys we work with. Why are they failing at the table? There has to be a root cause as to why the company continuously plays the negotiations group, and why there's no fight? This has been the case in all negotiations since I started in 1989.
We seem to notice a pattern every time we enter negotiations......we give multiple proposals to the company and then negotiations stall....and then the company hands some ridiculous first offer and we jump on it......and then we use the excuse that we need to bring it to the membership because it's up to us to decide. Always deferring blame back to the membership if it's accepted. I'm afraid the same idiots that are on the current negotiating committee will be on AMP's Board of Directors. Different union....same people. Not good!

strike,

I do not believe Bob Owens to be an idiot, nor John Ruiz or huck Schalk. What we have are sell outs desguised as Local Presidents doing the twu international's bidding. What would be different with AMP? Hum, there wouldn't be 21 A Type personalities with some looking to sell their sould, at the membership's expense, for a coveted international gig. We wouldn't have the twu international negotiating ANYTHING for us because the people we ELECT will have the tools necessary to negotiate AND these same people will live under what they negotiate.

I'm sorry to hear that ORD AMTs are content with the twu. But I hold out hope that those in ORD will wake up and realize that AMP is not AMFA... AMP is us.

As for some ridiculous first offer the checks and balances within AMP (AMP National Officers living under what they negotiate) will prevent crappy t/as from coming back to the floor.

GO AMP!

 

[odie01]

we can go round and round on this issue, but what's the solution here? I understand about the intl, but what's up with the negotiating team? This is made up of guys we work with. Why are they failing at the table? There has to be a root cause as to why the company continuously plays the negotiations group, and why there's no fight? This has been the case in all negotiations since I started in 1989.
We seem to notice a pattern every time we enter negotiations......we give multiple proposals to the company and then negotiations stall....and then the company hands some ridiculous first offer and we jump on it......and then we use the excuse that we need to bring it to the membership because it's up to us to decide. Always deferring blame back to the membership if it's accepted. I'm afraid the same idiots that are on the current negotiating committee will be on AMP's Board of Directors. Different union....same people. Not good!

It's not fair to assume that if we had a different union that we will have the same people. We will shed the un-accountable international, and all the appointed six figure salary positions. We will also have more pride in a union made up of our peers, not other non-mechanical or un-skilled laborers. Pilots union, well respected. Flight attendants union, well respected. TWU, not respected by it's members or other skilled work groups. Pride and accountability will bring out the leadership we need, different people will rise to the occasion when its members have a true voice.

 

[Bob Owens]

Conent means that you dont want more, what you have is good enough.

I have to wonder, why anyone would say the guys at ORD are content? Defeated, demoralized or dejected would probably be more accurate, to some that may appear to be content. But if we look back in history many pro-Slavery advocates used to contend that the Slaves were very content as well, based on the fact that there were few outward rebellions and they did their work.

What do you base your conclusion are that they are content on? I realize that ORD may have voted in favor of the deal but that could have just as easily been a response to their lack of confidence in the union. That doesnt mean they are content, it just means they dont have any hope.

 

[strikeforce]

Conent means that you dont want more, what you have is good enough.

I have to wonder, why anyone would say the guys at ORD are content? Defeated, demoralized or dejected would probably be more accurate, to some that may appear to be content. But if we look back in history many pro-Slavery advocates used to contend that the Slaves were very content as well, based on the fact that there were few outward rebellions and they did their work.

What do you base your conclusion are that they are content on? I realize that ORD may have voted in favor of the deal but that could have just as easily been a response to their lack of confidence in the union. That doesnt mean they are content, it just means they dont have any hope.

My definition of content is ...satisfied with the status quo. Status quo meaning "don't mess with the my CS's". Bob, I can take a survey today and I will guarantee you the CS policy is more important to the ORD membership than the contract. That's how pathetic things are in our union. Our priorities are screwed up. That's because WE lack leadership, both on a local basis and Intl. You're on the negotiations committee, "Are you satisfied with negotiations?" and if you and your colleagues aren't, why aren't you proactively doing something about it? We don't hear squat besides what we read on the TWU website, which is nothing but pathetic, and "How long is the committe willing to wait before someone grabs the horns and decides to get a gameplan in place to force the company?" Enlighten me, Please!

 

[Bob Owens]

My definition of content is ...satisfied with the status quo. Status quo meaning "don't mess with the my CS's". Bob, I can take a survey today and I will guarantee you the CS policy is more important to the ORD membership than the contract. That's how pathetic things are in our union. Our priorities are screwed up. That's because WE lack leadership, both on a local basis and Intl. You're on the negotiations committee, "Are you satisfied with negotiations?" and if you and your colleagues aren't, why aren't you proactively doing something about it? We don't hear squat besides what we read on the TWU website, which is nothing but pathetic, and "How long is the committe willing to wait before someone grabs the horns and decides to get a gameplan in place to force the company?" Enlighten me, Please!

You need to read the RLA. We cant legally act until we are released however nothing is stopping you from sending a message .

Mediated sessions will resume before the end of the month again, this is as of yesterday, but only for two days per the mediator.

The company will continue to drag things out as long as they can as long as they are getting what they want, apparently they are content.

I recognize that CS's are very important to the members, thats why we put CS language into the proposal but it was rejected. The language mirrored Continentals. The company at first totally ignored the request then flippantly replied that they rejected it because "we like things the way they are". The mediator insisted that we clear up those articles before we get to the economics so we figured we didnt want that issue to slow us down anymore than things have already been slowed down so we dropped it, but you guys should know that they dont want you to have the same CS rights as Continental has and UAL has already agreed to. Instead they want a CS policy where they can revoke them at any time.You should read them, they're pretty good.

I realize that the CS's allow our brothers and sisters to balance their lives. It allows them to work second jobs and since many have pretty much lost hope that they will see their livelyhoods restored they look at the CS, something that they have more control over, as something thats very important to them, something in the here and now. I think they recognize that the contract is important but they feel due to the RLA and the structure of our union they have less power over that. So, threaten to mess with the CS and the company ends up with a ramp full of tin, the objectives are clear and can be satisfied immediately. It may be fustrating but its understandable, you know the saying "Patience, found seldom in a woman, but never in a man".

 

[Lloyd Grey]

Hey Phat,
If for some strange reason we get our 2001 contract back with retro are you going to vote NO, because you feel you are being shortchanged 10 bucks?

Phat has a good point on the line premium, but I bet the vote would be "yes".

 

[Lloyd Grey]

At your next local union meeting, please introduce and second the following for a vote at the following meeting:

- WE THE MEMBERS OF TWU LOCAL "___" HEREBY DIRECT OUR TWU NEGOTIATORS TO DEMAND THE FOLLOWING ITEMS IN OUR CONTRACT WITH AMERICAN AIRLINES;

1. A $10.00 (ten dollars) Per Hour Line Premium; and,

2. A "Five and Five" retirement option for the top 1500 Title 1 employees.

A substantial line premium would keep overhaul "open" for business - with competitive rates of pay, in spite of the fact AMR could spin O/H off as a separate company and cut a fat hog in savings on labor cost while still controlling O/H production under the AA operating certificate and Engineering operation.

Union contracts should be self - renewing, and the COLA system for pay increases a part of them. Would AA let a limited number of senior people go on early retirement to get the vote on your next contract? It's all in the numbers man, and AA could hire the best in the industry for their future line operations.

 

[PhatSappy]

A substantial line premium would keep overhaul "open" for business - with competitive rates of pay, in spite of the fact AMR could spin O/H off as a separate company and cut a fat hog in savings on labor cost while still controlling O/H production under the AA operating certificate and Engineering operation.

Union contracts should be self - renewing, and the COLA system for pay increases a part of them. Would AA let a limited number of senior people go on early retirement to get the vote on your next contract? It's all in the numbers man, and AA could hire the best in the industry for their future line operations.

Damn he's good!

 

[PhatSappy]

I'll do the same at AFW, but for a $10.01 per hour overhaul premium.

You actually believe that with the financial package already put across the table, the union is going to take it off the table in order to change the line premium to $10 and hour. A move like that will have negotiation frozen for a while. And you do expect overhaul to strike for a $10 premium for the line?

You also believe that the company will be willing to entertain a early buyout when according to Bob Owens they are having a hard time getting recalls or new hires. So why limit to the buyout to the top 1,500, why not everyone? Are you at 1499 and want to make sure it gets to you, and could careless about anyone below you?

Overhaul operations are in a different league and linking the line maintenance operations to this dinosaur hurts us all. A strike only plays into the company being able to split the operations. The macro answer is in getting Congress to ban foreign outsourcing of overhaul operations. Good luck with that. Pinning your future career to this operation and those options is a critical failure of planning. Answer: Come up with a better idea than mine or the other guy says; "checkmate"!

 

[Hopeful]

Overhaul operations are in a different league and linking the line maintenance operations to this dinosaur hurts us all. A strike only plays into the company being able to split the operations. The macro answer is in getting Congress to ban foreign outsourcing of overhaul operations. Good luck with that. Pinning your future career to this operation and those options is a critical failure of planning. Answer: Come up with a better idea than mine or the other guy says; "checkmate"!

Anyone willing to predict what would happen if AA files bankruptcy?

Spin off overhaul? Or spin off line maintenance?

 

[Just the Facts II]

How about something reasonable to start with. Say $2.55/hr Line Premium?

Why such animosity toward overhaul? Base Maintenance has provided good jobs for many thousands of your brothers and sisters for 50 years or more. You have likely had many opportunities to transfer to a base yet you have chosen not to. You probably have good reasons to stay where you are, but don't resent the bases for holding you back.

Think of the quote from the old knight in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade". Perhaps you..."chose poorly"

 

[strikeforce]

How about something reasonable to start with. Say $2.55/hr Line Premium?

Why such animosity toward overhaul? Base Maintenance has provided good jobs for many thousands of your brothers and sisters for 50 years or more. You have likely had many opportunities to transfer to a base yet you have chosen not to. You probably have good reasons to stay where you are, but don't resent the bases for holding you back.

Think of the quote from the old knight in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade". Perhaps you..."chose poorly"

The Line guys see their peers at SWA, UPS & Fed Ex making $45-51 per hour and believe we're worth the same. The animosity is towards the union leaders for their failure to market or properly value the Line. In other words, they're short changing Line in order to keep OH jobs. Yes, the union has provided thousands of good paying jobs in the Base's over the years, but it has also succumbed to AA's wish of lowering the wages at the Base's by introducing non-licensed workers. Many will bash AMFA for it's failure at NW, but they do a good job at marketing the heart of the craft & class....the aircraft mechanic, and they don't seem to care about representing or marketing non-licensed helpers. It could be the reason why they don't mind outsourcing OH at SWA. The crown jewel is Line Maintenance. It's a necessary evil for ALL airlines, and the airlines don't mind paying a premium for Line because it directly affects their critical operation. This is why I chose Line Maintenance. I believed there was more earnings potential working Line. But, I'm also a realist and I know the TWU will never market the Line over OH because they love the dues! Money talks brother!

 

[Just the Facts II]

Excellent post Strikeforce! My only disagreement may be that I believe the current makeup of our negotiating team is now more autonomous than in the past and less under the international's thumb. Unfortunately I also believe they are more than willing to slash overhaul to achieve AMT line parity.

Just as some line guys on this board want to amputat the bases, there are too few mechanics at the overhaul bases that realize just how good they've got it, and will begrudge the line getting any more than overhaul. This short sightedness may force the company's hand to outsource overhaul. If not for the OSM's the base would already be gone. At least most of the OSM's have a hope of upgrading at some point.

There must be some middle ground found on the pay issue between Base and Line and clearly communicated to the membership as to why it is beneficial to both.

 

[strikeforce]

Excellent post Strikeforce! My only disagreement may be that I believe the current makeup of our negotiating team is now more autonomous than in the past and less under the international's thumb. Unfortunately I also believe they are more than willing to slash overhaul to achieve AMT line parity.

Just as some line guys on this board want to amputat the bases, there are too few mechanics at the overhaul bases that realize just how good they've got it, and will begrudge the line getting any more than overhaul. This short sightedness may force the company's hand to outsource overhaul. If not for the OSM's the base would already be gone. At least most of the OSM's have a hope of upgrading at some point.

There must be some middle ground found on the pay issue between Base and Line and clearly communicated to the membership as to why it is beneficial to both.

Couldn't agree more! I hope Jim Little is scrolling thru the posts!