Arbitrator's Motive?

[philly rocks]

It's not over until the "fat lady sings"!
AWA , I can't even bring myself to put you guys in the "usairways" category> You are the greediest people we ever laid eyes on! It is not over as far as the EAST (most senior) is concerned, and don't forget that. Let the attorney's mull over the legalities of a senile, disgruntled arbitraters decision. I can tell you this, "all union groups will stick together for our pilot group". This is outrageous and unjust and it will be corrected one way or another.

 

[ilg30/7]

No Safety Stud it's over, trouble is you just don't know it yet!! I will help you though, it's called BINDING ARBITRATION you agreed to it and you submitted your side. ALPA nation can't step in just because you don't like the award. Consider if you will that ALPA is much larger than your (AAA) pilot group and there is no way in hell that they are going to sacrafice ALL for you. No carrier in the future would ever trust ALPA to do a merger.

You guys need to refocus your energy on getting the industry setting contract we all need.

It's not even close to being over. I'm no pilot, but it seems to me you have to have a RATIFIED CONTRACT before any combined list would take effect. So as much as the West would like to believe it is over, the fact is they simply do not have to numbers to ramrod ratification down anybody's throat.

Simply put, you still need the consent of the East pilots in order for this binding arbitration to mean anything more than words on paper.

Does that seem like something you are likely to get anytime in the near future?

And please spare me the "you guys were screwed until we came along" stuff. I don't recall the West setting the world on fire with profit prior to 2005. Doug and company also didn't agree to the merger out of some altruistic desire to save East jobs. They did it because the two bankruptcies lowered costs enough that AWA could roughly triple in size without adding close to triple the cost. They did it because it made them money. Period.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

"all union groups will stick together for our pilot group". This is outrageous and unjust and it will be corrected one way or another.

Don't bet on it...you already bet and lost your seniority.

Simply put, you still need the consent of the East pilots in order for this binding arbitration to mean anything more than words on paper.

So simply put if the award went the East Pilots way the West Pilots were screwed cause you held the trump card huh? Is that how you guys went in the game? Yeah that is fair. The East Pilots win no matter what, right?

I think you all are trying to convince each other you are Tigers when in fact you are just a bunch of Paper Tigers.

 

[philly rocks]

No I didn't ! Our group got date of hire seniority and no fences, Mr. Big Guy! We didn't push it toward an arbitrater. We did it the righteous way. So you see, we will show solidarity toward our other union brothers and sisters, Mr. Tuna.

By the way, I loathe Tuna! It smells ! You are below a SLUG! Shame on you for thinking juniority prevails.

 

[ilg30/7]

Don't bet on it...you already bet and lost your seniority.
So simply put if the award went the East Pilots way the West Pilots were screwed cause you held the trump card huh? Is that how you guys went in the game? Yeah that is fair. The East Pilots win no matter what, right?

I think you all are trying to convince each other you are Tigers when in fact you are just a bunch of Paper Tigers.

But wait a minute??!! I thought it wasn't about what was "fair", it was about the arbitrator's decision?

In this case, its not going to be about what is "fair" but what the East pilots are going to be willing to accept.

Again, I ask you, does it seem to you that they are willing to consent to this award? Because like it or not, fair or not, consent is what you need in order for this decision the go into effect.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

By the way, I loathe Tuna! It smells ! You are below a SLUG! Shame on you for thinking juniority prevails.

I loathe Philly! It smells! it is the armpit of the system!

I never once said I think juniority prevails.

My point is the East Pilots went all-in fully knowing the risks, that by the way were fully laid out in their Merger Policy, and after losing they aren't man enough to say good game and get up from the table.

Not only that they are so blinded by outrage that they say they will not stop at anything to try to get their way and they don't care at all about all the other innocent employees, families (including their own) and customers they hurt to get their vengeance. They should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[AWA320]

It's not even close to being over. I'm no pilot, but it seems to me you have to have a RATIFIED CONTRACT before any combined list would take effect. So as much as the West would like to believe it is over, the fact is they simply do not have to numbers to ramrod ratification down anybody's throat.

Simply put, you still need the consent of the East pilots in order for this binding arbitration to mean anything more than words on paper.

Does that seem like something you are likely to get anytime in the near future?

And please spare me the "you guys were screwed until we came along" stuff. I don't recall the West setting the world on fire with profit prior to 2005. Doug and company also didn't agree to the merger out of some altruistic desire to save East jobs. They did it because the two bankruptcies lowered costs enough that AWA could roughly triple in size without adding close to triple the cost. They did it because it made them money. Period.

Well maybe if you were a pilot then you would know section 45 of the ALPA merger and fragmentation policy that clearly states AWARDS ARE FINAL AND BINDING now they can try every trick of the book and believe me we have conferenced with our attorney and national IT'S OVER DEAL WITH IT LIKE ADULTS!!!

No I didn't ! Our group got date of hire seniority and no fences, Mr. Big Guy! We didn't push it toward an arbitrater. We did it the righteous way. So you see, we will show solidarity toward our other union brothers and sisters, Mr. Tuna.

By the way, I loathe Tuna! It smells ! You are below a SLUG! Shame on you for thinking juniority prevails.

Dead in the casket with the dirt on the way is just where you were before we saved your sorry selfish ass :angry: you people have a hell of a lot of nerve begging to be saved then expect us to just had you our careers as well!!

Spend and waste all the money you want on a hopeless losing effort but at the end of the day section 45 of ALPA POLICY will prevail... Get over it and you selfish selves.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Well maybe if you were a pilot then you would know section 45 of the ALPA merger and fragmentation policy that clearly states AWARDS ARE FINAL AND BINDING now they can try every trick of the book and believe me we have conferenced with our attorney and national IT'S OVER DEAL WITH IT LIKE ADULTS!!!

You forgot the part about ALPA...They will defend the award

 

[l8rd8r]

copied;

Hey Nicolau - you primarily based your integrated senority list on where the individual prospects of Usairways and AWA stood at the end of 2005. Under the original USairways, Bruce Lakefields massive restructuring plan, USairways East to this date, has been highly profitable every quarter even in spite of DP's inept managerial skills! AWA has lost dollars every quarter since 2005 and would either be in Chapt. 11, BK or have been liquidated!
The proof of this is in the individually prepared profit and loss statement, if you can't read or understand the you need to recuse yourself.
YOUR ONLY WORTH WHAT YOUR WILLING TO FIGHT FOR...Pascal

 

[SoldWholeSale]

I disagree with your assessment. In the past mergers were conducted between two like carriers. You can not expect a carrier that is 50yrs old and one that is 22yrs old to come together in an DOH environment and believe that's fair. Come on, AAA was weak and on the verge of collapse when we came along. You guys were the SECOND thought as we were going with ATA!!!

I doubt we'll see any changes to the merger policy. What the easties fail to realize is that their relative position really didn't change.

--I sure hope you don't have to whiz in a cup tomorrow.... USAirways (the real USAirways) had a great deal more money in the bank the day the merger was announced than did HP. Only the combination of the two prevented the demise of both. The real problem is what comes next. There will be a next merger for LCC, and we may not want to skew the ground rules to badly, as we may have to live with it agian.

SH

 

[SoldWholeSale]

I loathe Philly! It smells! it is the armpit of the system!

I never once said I think juniority prevails.

My point is the East Pilots went all-in fully knowing the risks, that by the way were fully laid out in their Merger Policy, and after losing they aren't man enough to say good game and get up from the table.

Not only that they are so blinded by outrage that they say they will not stop at anything to try to get their way and they don't care at all about all the other innocent employees, families (including their own) and customers they hurt to get their vengeance. They should be ashamed of themselves.

--Do you honestly think you can tell more than 2,000 pilots who have been paying ALPA dues since a great many of the HP pilots were still in school, that they have achieved all in their career that they are going to and not expect a fight? The AAA pilots have sacrificed immeasureably to keep the company alive and solvent for the other employees. Now, with the arbitrators award, it turns out they would have been better off forcing the company into liquidation, going to another airline as first year, and riding the growth caused by the demise of USAir up the seniority scale. Now, they will likely do the same, but instead of it just being USAir, it will be HP as well. The real winners will be UAL/AA/CO/NW/SWA/JB, as they will end up with cheap used airplanes, and control of at least four hub cities.

Certainly the USAir/AAA pilots are angry at ALPA. The union is like insurance. How would you react if you had been paying Allstate Insurance company homeowners insurance for 20 years, and one day your house burns down, and even though you have full coverage, they are only willing to pay for a week in a motel, and the neighbors who are going to get your lot to split in the settlement are busy convincing you that you got all you could possibly expect.....

Change is in fact on the way...

ALL OR NONE!

SH

 

[Fly]

ALPA merger policy states NO WINDFALLS, that in itself will be enough to turn over the 'binding arbitration', imho.

 

[AWA320]

--I sure hope you don't have to whiz in a cup tomorrow.... USAirways (the real USAirways) had a great deal more money in the bank the day the merger was announced than did HP. Only the combination of the two prevented the demise of both. The real problem is what comes next. There will be a next merger for LCC, and we may not want to skew the ground rules to badly, as we may have to live with it agian.

SH

What's really interesting is the two quarters prior to the announcement we AWA made profits!! The last time the REAL usairways made a profit Ronald Regan was president!!!

Look all this posturing is pointless, this thing is over and binding. We move on.

ALPA merger policy states NO WINDFALLS, that in itself will be enough to turn over the 'binding arbitration', imho.

WHAT????????? What windfall and how was your position of DOH not a total windfall???

Will not be overturned reference NWA/Republic nuff said...

 

[SoldWholeSale]

What's really interesting is the two quarters prior to the announcement we AWA made profits!! The last time the REAL usairways made a profit Ronald Regan was president!!!

Look all this posturing is pointless, this thing is over and binding. We move on.
WHAT????????? What windfall and how was your position of DOH not a total windfall???

Will not be overturned reference NWA/Republic nuff said...

--Good luck with that, but while you are preening your feathers, you might want to fluff up your resume as well if you indeed believe this to be the end game. more than 2,000 AAA pilots are better off starting at the bottom of a different seniority list with LCC in Chapt 7. There isn't a retirement anyway, may as well build some elsewhere. I for one, will take recall, cost the company as much as I can, call in sick a few times, and resign to continue on with what I'm currently doing. I think you can expect a great deal of that sort of sentiment.

SH

 

[ilg30/7]

Well maybe if you were a pilot then you would know section 45 of the ALPA merger and fragmentation policy that clearly states AWARDS ARE FINAL AND BINDING now they can try every trick of the book and believe me we have conferenced with our attorney and national IT'S OVER DEAL WITH IT LIKE ADULTS!!!

Are you even paying attention? Perhaps you would like to illuminate me on how exactly this FINAL AND BINDING award goes into effect absent a RATIFIED AGREEMENT. Because although I am a simple non-pilot, I just don't see how you get this award you are so proud of to mean something more than printed paper without at least one more vote by the East. Care to illuminate me?

And while I'm sure you were thrilled with your two whole quarters of profitability prior to the merger, you might want to check and see how last year's profit broke down between East and West before flexing that financial muscle. And before you spout off about "saving your @ss" you might want to look into whose money it was that came in, got the merger done, and "saved" the East. Hint: It wasn't AWA's.