April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[cleardirect]

The West is offering to voluntarily Arbitrate between the NIC and STRAIGHT DOH (which is of course not even the East position. Talk about offering to play poker with a marked deck )

You can read it in the West Doc 106....


Remedy is for Judge Silver to allow [font=times new roman'] " voluntary quick arbitration between East[/font]
[font=times new roman']Pilots and West Pilots that applies such standards to determine whether to use the Nicolau list or strict DOH". (emphasis of voluntary in the original, [/font]i.e. not supplied. Why is Marty waisting the Judge's time by making her read voluntary remedies? ).


But the biggest blunder of their most resent submission to Silver, Doc 106, is the reference to Exhibit A. In an attempt to show Silver she has already agreed to an urgency to resolve the "DFR issues", they mistakenly point to Silver's own words of assurance that she would deal with the company's DJ issues (i.e.. the I, II, and III questions by USAirways) ....and they inexplicably now shove back at her, her words of assurance spoken to the company, and claim the words are proof that she understands the urgency of resolving the West's DFR question.







First of all there is no trial proceeding on the DFR question.

Second, and more egregious, the company DJ issue is not the same as their DFR issue, so to shove her words of urgency on the one matter back at her and expect her to have urgency for their issue on that basis is unthinkable.... but it is just plain buffoonery to point the Judge to her promise to resolve a DJ issue expeditiously... For crying out loud, she kept her promise to the company to resolve their DJ questions, dismissed Counts I and III, entered judgement favorable to USAPA, and bound the West class.

Yeah, grab Silver's collar and shove her face into that for urgency on your DFR question! :huh:

You easties really do have a problem with living up to you deals don't you. You have a problem with the west reminding the judge what she ordered (deal)?

It is the same case with the same facts and parties.the company did not get the answer they wanted. And yes the time is even more critical now then before.

You easties are the only ones that want delay. Why is that?

 

[cleardirect]

B


Yeah. And it would be really hilarious if she simply ruled from the bench "straight DOH." But in truth no more chance of that then her imposing the NIC. Her clerks have been working overtime. They will brief her on the law. She will soon rule accordingly.

I had not read document 106 yet (I was saving it for a little light reading and entertainment.) Thanks for the update. As usual, the West Class is their own worst enemy.

Every single labor group on the property went straight DOH, with no fences or restrictions. Woe to USAPA for trying to do the same, but with protections.

Greeter

As you easties repeatedly yell that every other group went DOH you should not have a problem with arbitration than. Make your case that every other group went DOH, that DOH is the gold standard. Even throw in that usapa has offer these most generous C&R. The west makes our case that we want to use an arbitrated list. Let a neutral make the decision. If your case is so strong you have nothing to worry about.

Why impose if you have such a righteous case? Why afraid of proving to the world that you easties were right from the beginning?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Great post and I agree: DOH destroys careers. It makes lateral moves impossible and in fact rewards career stagnation like US Airways. 17 year FOs should never be placed anywhere around captains from another airline. DOH does exactly that.

Using THAT logic medical interns should never become doctors and copilots should never become Captains. What a silly conclusion.

 

[end_of_alpa]

It warms my heart you so easily discount one of the most respected RLA attorneys in the business. The west is pretty much in agreement with his points and share his confidence in our proposed solution to your seniority problems

He's a lawyer. Just like you "discount" co pilots, who really shouldn't be put with "Captains". You are the perfect example of a "Captain" who is better than anyone else. This is why we are having this discussion.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Leave it to USAPA supporters to think that a guy who spent 17 years as a F/O has the same experience and worth as a guy who was a Captain for 17 years.

That is why you are still a copilot and I'm a Captain, even though you are "senior" to me. You bid copilot Dan because you can't handle being a Captain. I have more years as Captain than you so I a, more experienced and hence senior to you. You're screwed up, Dan. Oh, see you on the Airbus, copilot.

 

[prechilill]

He's a lawyer. Just like you "discount" co pilots, who really shouldn't be put with "Captains". You are the perfect example of a "Captain" who is better than anyone else. This is why we are having this discussion.

Jamie, perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my thoughts. Try this:
In reality, your years of bouncing around the north east in the right seat as you skim the bottom of the seniority list did not give you the necessary captain experience to be slotted with America West captains. That's the problem with DOH- it rewards inexperience and that is probably why you want it so bad.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Great post and I agree: DOH destroys careers. It makes lateral moves impossible and in fact rewards career stagnation like US Airways. 17 year FOs should never be placed anywhere around captains from another airline. DOH does exactly that.

I think the airline should determine who should be a Captain. If you won't do the job, well find someone who is in command and do what the company wants you to do. Who should decide, the Pilot who saves the company money by taking on less fuel, by not writing up safety items, by saving the company money by short cutting safety? Who will support YOU "Captain" when the co pilot doesn't support you and in fact testifies against you. Co pilots really need to watch and report Captains who don't follow company SOP's.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Jamie, perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my thoughts. Try this:
In reality, your years of bouncing around the north east in the right seat as you skim the bottom of the seniority list did not give you the necessary captain experience to be slotted with America West captains. That's the problem with DOH- it rewards inexperience and that is probably why you want it so bad.

Thanks. I'm going to quote you from now on. West pilot "Captains" are better than everyone else. I've seen more cities and have MORE flying and COMMAND and management experience than almost ANY AWA pilot. You dolt. How DO you get to be Captain?

Here it is, APA and ALPA. This is what you get when you have entitlement arrogance like this.

 

[nic4us]

Thanks. I'm going to quote you from now on. West pilot "Captains" are better than everyone else. I've seen more cities and have MORE flying and COMMAND and management experience than almost ANY AWA pilot. You dolt. How DO you get to be Captain?

Here it is, APA and ALPA. This is what you get when you have entitlement arrogance like this.

You are so full of yourself it is laughable.

Ever flown a 4 engine jumbo?

Almost ANY AWA pilot is more qualified because you get to be captain by going to work for a thriving company. LCC is thriving today because AWA bought AAA out of bankruptcy and formed a corporation that could support it's workforce and it's pilots.

Your the entitlement minded a hole. Your post reeks of why you are better than others, and illogical rationale of why you should be allowed to take a co-workers position within the company.

PS. The Nic is still the only accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots.

PSS. Usapa is still nothing more than a scab union.

 

[traderjake]

That is why you are still a copilot and I'm a Captain, even though you are "senior" to me. You bid copilot Dan because you can't handle being a Captain. I have more years as Captain than you so I a, more experienced and hence senior to you. You're screwed up, Dan. Oh, see you on the Airbus, copilot.

Whatever you say, Captain.

Enjoy being on Reserve for $125 an hour.

See you on one of the eight island turns a month I work.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Whatever you say, Captain.

Enjoy being on Reserve for $125 an hour.

See you on one of the eight island turns a month I work.

Reserve is easy living if you reside in base. I imagine he does enjoy the mostly "paid vacation" at $125/hour.

 

[traderjake]

Reserve is easy living if you reside in base. I imagine he does enjoy the mostly "paid vacation" at $125/hour.

I don't live in base or answer the phone.

 

[Claxon]

LCC is thriving today because AWA bought AAA out of bankruptcy and formed a corporation that could support it's workforce and it's pilots.

Your the entitlement minded a hole. Your post reeks of why you are better than others, and illogical rationale of why you should be allowed to take a co-workers position within the company.

PSS. Usapa is still nothing more than a scab union.

The west side thriving? Since the merger west has had no hiring, many downgrades, 40 plus pilots on furlough and no hiring in sight until 2014. All this with Southwest Airlines having a hub in PHX. The AMR financing people are well aware of the future of PHX.

Why do you think USAPA is a scab union? You did not get your windfall, bottom line.

 

[EastUS1]

Jamie, perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my thoughts. ..........That's the problem with DOH- it rewards inexperience ......

Wow!....And you would whimsically color such utter nonsense as anything even remotely existing within the realm of actual "thoughts"?

"...perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my thoughts...." Ya' "think"? Nothing new to see here folks. Move along.

 

[EastUS1]

You are so full of yourself it is laughable.

Almost ANY AWA pilot is more qualified because you get to be captain by going to work for a thriving company.

Ah! So one's personal qualfications are entirely dependant on which company one's hired with?....And you're "more qualified" by way of acceptance at AWA? Well...there's one thing you certainly got right here = "You are so full of yourself it is laughable."