April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion
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traderjake
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- Aug 30, 2002
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Rumor has it that the USAPA ad hoc committee's best and final offer is DOH with C&Rs.
What is the rumor of the west final offer? (rhetorical question)
Phoenix
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- Apr 16, 2003
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The West is offering to voluntarily Arbitrate between the NIC and STRAIGHT DOH (which is of course not even the East position. Talk about offering to play poker with a marked deck
)You can read it in the West Doc 106....
Remedy is for Judge Silver to allow [font=times new roman'] " voluntary quick arbitration between East[/font]
[font=times new roman']Pilots and West Pilots that applies such standards to determine whether to use the Nicolau list or strict DOH". (emphasis of voluntary in the original, [/font]i.e. not supplied. Why is Marty waisting the Judge's time by making her read voluntary remedies? ).
But the biggest blunder of their most resent submission to Silver, Doc 106, is the reference to Exhibit A. In an attempt to show Silver she has already agreed to an urgency to resolve the "DFR issues", they mistakenly point to Silver's own words of assurance that she would deal with the company's DJ issues (i.e.. the I, II, and III questions by USAirways) ....and they inexplicably now shove back at her, her words of assurance spoken to the company, and claim the words are proof that she understands the urgency of resolving the West's DFR question.
First of all there is no trial proceeding on the DFR question.
Second, and more egregious, the company DJ issue is not the same as their DFR issue, so to shove her words of urgency on the one matter back at her and expect her to have urgency for their issue on that basis is unthinkable.... but it is just plain buffoonery to point the Judge to her promise to resolve a DJ issue expeditiously... For crying out loud, she kept her promise to the company to resolve their DJ questions, dismissed Counts I and III, entered judgement favorable to USAPA, and bound the West class.
Yeah, grab Silver's collar and shove her face into that for urgency on your DFR question! :huh:
Walmartgreeter
Veteran
- Mar 6, 2003
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B
Yeah. And it would be really hilarious if she simply ruled from the bench "straight DOH." But in truth no more chance of that then her imposing the NIC. Her clerks have been working overtime. They will brief her on the law. She will soon rule accordingly.
I had not read document 106 yet (I was saving it for a little light reading and entertainment.) Thanks for the update. As usual, the West Class is their own worst enemy.
Every single labor group on the property went straight DOH, with no fences or restrictions. Woe to USAPA for trying to do the same, but with protections.
Greeter
The West is offering to voluntarily Arbitrate between the NIC and STRAIGHT DOH (which is of course not even the East position. Talk about offering to play poker with a marked deck
You can read it in the West Doc 106....
Remedy is for Judge Silver to allow " voluntary quick arbitration between East
Pilots and West Pilots that applies such standards to determine whether to use the Nicolau list or strict DOH". (emphasis of voluntary in the original, i.e. not supplied. Why is Marty waisting the Judge's time by making her read voluntary remedies? ).
But the biggest blunder of their most resent submission to Silver, Doc 106, is the reference to Exhibit A. In an attempt to show Silver she has already agreed to an urgency to resolve the "DFR issues", they mistakenly point to Silver's own words of assurance that she would deal with the company's DJ issues (i.e.. the I, II, and III questions by USAirways) ....and they inexplicably now shove back at her, her words of assurance spoken to the company, and claim the words are proof that she understands the urgency of resolving the West's DFR question.
First of all there is no trial proceeding on the DFR question.
Second, and more egregious, the company DJ issue is not the same as their DFR issue, so to shove her words of urgency on the one matter back at her and expect her to have urgency for their issue on that basis is unthinkable.... but it is just plain buffoonery to point the Judge to her promise to resolve a DJ issue expeditiously... For crying out loud, she kept her promise to the company to resolve their DJ questions, dismissed Counts I and II, entered judgement favorable to USAPA, and bound the West class.
Yeah, grab Silver's collar and shove her face into that for urgency on your DFR question! :huh:
Yeah. And it would be really hilarious if she simply ruled from the bench "straight DOH." But in truth no more chance of that then her imposing the NIC. Her clerks have been working overtime. They will brief her on the law. She will soon rule accordingly.
I had not read document 106 yet (I was saving it for a little light reading and entertainment.) Thanks for the update. As usual, the West Class is their own worst enemy.
Every single labor group on the property went straight DOH, with no fences or restrictions. Woe to USAPA for trying to do the same, but with protections.
Greeter
Walmartgreeter
Veteran
- Mar 6, 2003
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By the way, the most insane combo of legal pleadings belongs not to any labor group or class, but to the Company and henchman Siegel.
They are actually asking for three things beyond comprehension. Ripeness, a guilty verdict on the DFR, and a remedy of third party status. Who knows, stranger things have come out the very hometown PHX Federal Court. But this would be a reverse trifecta on appeal, all three dependent rulings being illegal.
Greeter
They are actually asking for three things beyond comprehension. Ripeness, a guilty verdict on the DFR, and a remedy of third party status. Who knows, stranger things have come out the very hometown PHX Federal Court. But this would be a reverse trifecta on appeal, all three dependent rulings being illegal.
Greeter
PullUp
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- May 22, 2010
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Oh, what a friend we have in Dougie.
Right.
Phoenix
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- Apr 16, 2003
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Yes, on the wide scale of "<--DFR-------------Neutral------------Benefactor--> if anyone is ever found guilty of any infraction against the West, the company will be so far on the right of the scale.... well, the only thing missing is company cars, and two months personal use of the corporate yacht for an all expense paid voyage to the Mediterranean.
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
US Airways, Inc.,
Plaintiff,
vs.
Don Addington, et al.,
Defendants.
))))))))))
No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS
AMENDED JUDGMENT
(to add description of class)
Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the
following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the
America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”
DATED this 4th day of December, 2012.
Judge Silver
FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
US Airways, Inc.,
Plaintiff,
vs.
Don Addington, et al.,
Defendants.
))))))))))
No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS
AMENDED JUDGMENT
(to add description of class)
Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the
following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the
America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”
DATED this 4th day of December, 2012.
Judge Silver
prechilill
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2002
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It warms my heart you so easily discount one of the most respected RLA attorneys in the business. The west is pretty much in agreement with his points and share his confidence in our proposed solution to your seniority problems
Compromise? What are you smoking? Windfall is the word of choice. Figure it out........you're a smart guy!
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
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As your heart is warmed by the notion of a company attorney making grand defenses on your behalf, consider how impossible it will be for the West to ever successfully sue the company for any unfairness. And consider that he has repeatedly heard Silver say USAPA doesn't have to use the Nic (He believes her, and has no passions clouding his understanding of what that means.)
If he is as good as you blushingly profess him to be he already knows he will get a big fat Kirby type "No", to each of his suggestion (He's banking on it, because he is that good), and things will sail along.
im back..!!
Senior
- Mar 26, 2011
- 499
- 504
You are so correct, DOH is a scourge in most all industries.
I believe we should steer clear of DOH at all opportunities, How about if we just used Date of Birth, it would all be so efficient, as a new hire group is brought into training, they would be trained as to there place in the pilot list. ( not a seniority list, because it wouldnt be based on seniority, it would be based on age). oldest to the top, and theb earliest out.
Everything would line up over time, and stay lined up forever, once it runs its course,
Nobody should be adverse to this, because it would be completely the same for all....all the 50 yr olds would be side by side, 40 yrolds....etc
if anybody has a problem with this idea, please give me a reason, other than "I got mine" or "Its not fair" .....
what do we think?
Beancounter
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- Jun 28, 2009
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Makes one wonder what's going on. All I know for sure is that management is smarter than we are and the company's lawyer is wayyyy smarter than our lawyers, both east and west.
COBRA! Just noticed this is page 427
Other than that, all I can say is thank you to all the men and women both past and present in our armed forces and have a goodnight all, both east and west.
Bean
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