April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[cactusboy53]

Nope.

This trumps ALL your quotes:

"IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is

entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline

Pilots Association's seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation

provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose."

[font="Times New Roman""]"IT IS FURTHER ORDERED [/font][font="Times New Roman""]the Clerk of Court shall enter judgment dismissing Counts I and III of the complaint and in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint stating US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.[/font]"
[font="Times New Roman""] [/font]
[font="Times New Roman""]Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge[/font]

[font="Times New Roman""]No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS ORDER; October 11, 2012[/font]

So, what is USAPA's legitimate union purpose for evading/dodging/delaying the result of an agreed upon process?

 

[cactusboy53]

Let me guess, history major?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana; Reason in Common Sense, The Life of Reason, Vol.1,

 

[Walmartgreeter]

So, what is USAPA's legitimate union purpose for evading/dodging/delaying the result of an agreed upon process?

So you claim Silver will now (after everything she said in her first ruling, and after everything she told Marty on the 14th) hold USAPA responsible in a DFR for "not using the NIC?"

Greeter

 

[Metroyet]

So you claim Silver will now (after everything she said in her first ruling, and after everything she told Marty on the 14th) hold USAPA responsible in a DFR for "not using the NIC?"

Greeter

No. She will hold them responsible for having no ability to be neutral, fair, or equitable. The Nic was just one out of an unknown number of such scenarios. It is however, he ONLY one derived by a fair neutral process on the table. USAPA could have provided for that, but then again, being that they were formed for the exclusive use as a weapon, they can't. I think she's looking for a good indication of a dfr violation POST MOU...just to be sure this one sticks. Do you think USAPA proved their neutrality and their commitment to a fair and equitable process during those forced negotiations? USAPA set aside 100k of every bodies dues money to pay for the East side. How much did they provide the West?

Who exactly is Symanski's clients again?

 

[Phoenix]

[font=Times New Roman"]"IT IS FURTHER ORDERED [/font][font=Times New Roman"]the Clerk of Court shall enter judgment dismissing Counts I and III of the complaint and in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint stating US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.[/font]"

[font=Times New Roman"]Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge[/font]

[font=Times New Roman"]No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS ORDER; October 11, 2012[/font]

So, what is USAPA's legitimate union purpose for evading/dodging/delaying the result of an agreed upon process?

MR. HARPER: We're taking the position that they have
a duty to follow through with what they agreed -- ALPA agreed
to and Airways accepted back in 2007 which is the Nicolau.
That is our position, Your Honor. And we think that the union
has the duty to represent us, the minority, and not trump us
because they are the majority and put something else on the
table.

THE COURT: So, then, are you not, then, in violation
of the agreement or the Court's order? I made quite clear --
do I have to read the Court order to you, too, Mr. Harper?
MR. HARPER: I don't think -- I'm sure we're not in
violation because --
THE COURT: Well, I said they do not have to adopt
Nicolau. Okay?


MR. HARPER: We are saying the duty is to present the
Nicolau in the course of the pilot integration process --
THE COURT: Okay. Just present it but not propose it
as the only method and means of adopting a seniority agreement.


Your Honor, we go in to the post-August 15, 2013, and
moving in to the end of the year. We're saying when they go to
start that process, that they need to present the Nicolau Award
unless they have a legitimate union purpose for not doing so.
The touchstone is the legitimate union purpose.

THE COURT: Okay. Okay. I agree with you. But the
legitimated union purpose can be in representing everyone which
would also be the East Pilots and coming up with a combination;
right?

 

[Phoenix]

No. She will hold them responsible for having no ability to be neutral, fair, or equitable. The Nic was just one out of an unknown number of such scenarios. It is however, he ONLY one derived by a fair neutral process on the table. USAPA could have provided for that, but then again, being that they were formed for the exclusive use as a weapon, they can't. I think she's looking for a good indication of a dfr violation POST MOU...just to be sure this one sticks. Do you think USAPA proved their neutrality and their commitment to a fair and equitable process during those forced negotiations? USAPA set aside 100k of every bodies dues money to pay for the East side. How much did they provide the West?

Who exactly is Symanski's clients again?

Is Marty going to explain to Silver that the standard of DFR before the MOU is different after the MOU, or is the DFR standard the same, but the material fact of 98% of plaintiffs voting approval of USAPA's work new?

 

[Phoenix]

....

So, what is USAPA's legitimate union purpose for evading/dodging/delaying the result of an agreed upon process?

98% of politicians and CEOs recommend you don't vote while drinking.

Disclaimer, Ted Kennedy and Doug were not participants in this poll.

 

[Metroyet]

Is Marty going to explain to Silver that the standard of DFR before the MOU is different after the MOU, or is the DFR standard the same, but the material fact of 98% of plaintiffs voting approval of USAPA's work new?

The only thing silver made abundantly clear on the 14th was the fact she understood the MOU was neutral on this dispute. Just like your fake union said BEFORE the vote only to claim otherwise AFTER its ratification. Changing your minds AFTER THE FACT seems to be a rather Eastly trait.

 

[cleardirect]

The West has spent a great to deal of time and money making their case to the courts. Have the courts meted out anything other than justice?

So by your logic since ALPA has not had to write a check yet for the TWA DFR. They are innocent?

 

[cleardirect]

So you claim Silver will now (after everything she said in her first ruling, and after everything she told Marty on the 14th) hold USAPA responsible in a DFR for "not using the NIC?"

Greeter

Can a judge ignore her own order?

[font=Times New Roman"]"US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.[/font]"

Must have a legitimate union purpose. That is what judge Silver said usapa needed. They have not present one yet.

 

[Phoenix]

So by your logic since ALPA has not had to write a check yet for the TWA DFR. They are innocent?

No, I asked a question. Has the courts meted out anything other than justice? If you think the courts have been unjust to you then just say so.

Marty works for you guys... just tell him that anytime he appears in court he must wear an Integrity Matters Tshirt.

 

[Phoenix]

Can a judge ignore her own order?

[font=Times New Roman"]"US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.[/font]"

Must have a legitimate union purpose. That is what judge Silver said usapa needed. They have not present one yet.

First of all the Court told you the purpose last week:

THE COURT: Okay. Okay. I agree with you. But the
legitimated union purpose can be in representing everyone which
would also be the East Pilots and coming up with a combination;
right?

Second, The West is the only one that thinks USAPA must present a LUP to the West in order for the sun to come up tomorrow.

 

[Phoenix]

The only thing silver made abundantly clear on the 14th was...

..that both sides had to participate in settlement discussions. Must not have made much progress.



Case 2:13-cv-00471-ROS Document 100 Filed 05/21/13

MOTION TO FILE PLAINTIFFS’
STATUS REPORT ON FAILED
EFFORTS TO NEGOTIATE
INTEGRATED SENIORITY LIST...

 

[cactusboy53]

3 [font=Times New Roman"]We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA. [/font]

Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Opinion

Case: 09-16564 06/04/2010

 

[cactusboy53]

THE COURT: Well, I guess if they don't promulgate a list the failure to act certainly is often deemed to be a decision, right, that's the way the government is often viewed under the Administrative Procedures Act is you can either make a decision and somebody says it's arbitrary and capricious or your failure to make a decision, which essentially a decision in and of itself is arbitrary and capricious.

Judge Sean H. Lane, US Bankruptcy Judge

US Bankruptcy Court Transcripts: April 3, 2013