April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

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That is an independent analyst report. It is NOT the 10-K and it is NOT Doug Parker's explanation. The FASB has a method for ACCOUNTING purposes that show it as a reverse acquisition but in reality it WAS a merger. Pilots are stupid when it comes to financial transactions. Why don't you just seek the truth....or continue to believe what you want.

That goes along with the so-called fact that US Airways had no furloughed pilots when the acquisition took place in 2005, JJ.

I also know that binding arbitration did not occur either.

That is, if I think like a Usapian.

 
.. The acquiring airline, America West, was hiring.. the bankrupt airline was well let's say...bankrupt. The bankrupt airline brings furloughed pilots who as a result of said merger are now employed...

Yes, indeedy, AWA pilots saved USAir pilot jobs and made the future bright, and in doing so have now saved AA pilot jobs and made their future bright too! The APA can't wait to welcome you with a heroes welcome and reward you with the privileged status you all earned as Titans and Spartans, Dire Wolves even! Prechil will be the first allowed to sniff 777 left seat cushions.
 
Correct, I did not. The corporation headed by Doug Parker acquired Yousairways.

Parker showed you guys a lot of shiny airplanes and painted a wonderful picture about your futures.....he is your savior, NOT! He used you guys as a stepping stone, along with USAirways, to become the CEO of the largest airline in the world. It's unfortunate that you guys were all in. That's the way this industry works. Just be watching out for the next lesson in life.
breeze
 
You've stolen 100% of the growth plus caused massive down sizing of the west due to your high costs. Give us what is fair and you've got a deal old man.
How is fuel going to over $100/barrel "your" high costs? We also had a lower hourly pay rate that you guys so loved to crow about as well. There was growth on the east because that is where the money is, especially international. Be thankful that we bought you guys or you wouldn't have that 24% east flying that you do. That would be another 350 furloughs west. All of these are bad assumptions that Nicolau failed to take into account when he rendered his arbitration decision. Give you what is fair? - Me thinks DOH is fair.
 
If PIT was a great place why was it closed? BOS, LGA? The company decides where to put assets. That is the fact of a merger.

After the merger if the company decides to shrink PHL and grow JFK and LAX do you want to be locked out of that opportunity? Why should the wet be locked out of opportunities for us?

You easties all need to wrap your head around the fact there was a merger in 2005. There is going to be another one very soon.
Scott Kirby ......."NO"
 
How is fuel going to over $100/barrel "your" high costs? We also had a lower hourly pay rate that you guys so loved to crow about as well. There was growth on the east because that is where the money is, especially international. Be thankful that we bought you guys or you wouldn't have that 24% east flying that you do. That would be another 350 furloughs west. All of these are bad assumptions that Nicolau failed to take into account when he rendered his arbitration decision. Give you what is fair? - Me thinks DOH is fair.

NIC = 330

Obviously, Usapa is backed into a corner like a wounded rat. Time is running out for the thieves in the east, it will be a quick death.
 
Parker showed you guys a lot of shiny airplanes and painted a wonderful picture about your futures.....he is your savior, NOT! He used you guys as a stepping stone, along with USAirways, to become the CEO of the largest airline in the world. It's unfortunate that you guys were all in. That's the way this industry works. Just be watching out for the next lesson in life.
breeze

I agree Breeze, Parker is really good conducting a dog and pony show. American's labor groups were so anxious to dump Horton they climbed right into bed with him. They are still in the honeymoon stage. Some day the honeymoon will be over and reality will set in.

This is going to get interesting.

 
Right. Go tell that to AMR, APA, UCC,LLC, and Judge Lane. They're all on record as stating its beyond ripe. So. Who is "everybody"? Symanskis Client...aka East Pilots?
They all say it is ripe because they want it to be ripe. The only ones with the lawful and legal opinion on ripeness is the ninth circuit court of appeals. You remember what they said right?
 
No. What that says is you are demanding and allowing that your union not treat the west pilots firmly.

Usapa has said that the line pilots control the union. You the line pilots what want is happening to the west.

You better pray that the APA members have a little more fairness in their heart than east pilots.
You don't think the east pilots are treating you "firmly"?
 
..... He used you guys as a stepping stone, along with USAirways, to become the CEO of the largest airline in the world. It's unfortunate that you guys were all in. That's the way this industry works. Just be watching out for the next lesson in life.
breeze

I agree with all of that, other than the 'all in' part. Other than that quibble, whuch is neither here nor there, damn straight.
 
I agree Breeze, Parker is really good conducting a dog and pony show. American's labor groups were so anxious to dump Horton they climbed right into bed with him. They are still in the honeymoon stage. Some day the honeymoon will be over and reality will set in.

This is going to get interesting.

It was like your honeymoon with Mr Parker. His mentors should have raised a red flag for "youse" guys.

http://flitetime.net/awabonus.jpg

http://flitetime.net/franke.jpg
 
Let's revisit 2005, shall we? The acquiring airline, America West, was hiring the bankrupt airline was well let's say...bankrupt. The bankrupt airline brings furloughed pilots who as a result of said merger are now employed.

The bankrupt airline forms a union to take the benefits on the acquisition, installs their pilot management, takes over the training department of the acquiring airline, changes travel employee travel to benefit themselves with the DOH methodology.

The pilots of the acquiring airline have endured furloughs and no hiring since 2005. The West watched as East management concentrated growth and opportunity to a heading of 090. All this, while the "union" was suing West pilots into defense mode. The defense, known as Leonidas was formed to protect West pilots from the assaults on the various fronts, particularly the Charlotte front.

Today, we find Charlotte having to defend itself from the retaliation on multiple fronts. They are in their bunkers and know the end is near and it can't come soon enough.
Wow, cue the violins and hand out the hanky's.

You do not know what you are talking about. Last week you posted many times about the evils of smoking holding a tobacco product in your avatar.

"NEW YORK, - September 29, 2005 – Seabury Group today announced that it has completed its role as financial advisor in the restructuring of US Airways Group, Inc., allowing the company to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and merge with America West Holdings Corporation. US Airways filed for Chapter 11 on September 12, 2004."

http://www.seaburyapg.com/Web/APG/Site.nsf/ID/press_2005_0929
 
I figured out what our LUP is and its a strong one. I do believe we have a chance now.

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]MR. SZYMANSKI: We haven't had any discussions [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]because they don't want to discuss anything other than the[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]Nicolau Award and I don't want the Court to misunderstand the [/background]fact that doing the Nicolau Award itself as it is, as it stands, is a realistic possibility. It isn't. It just -- it isn't. [background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]But we are willing to say --[/background]

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]THE COURT: Why isn't it?[/background]

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]MR. SZYMANSKI: Because we think it was unfair.[/background]
...............And I will prove it for you. You see as soon as Mr Nicolau released the results of his arbitration ALPA realized that their merger policy was flawed and Mr Nicolau made a big mistake. Alpa changed their merger policy to include a length of service provision which as a direct result of the Nicolau arbitration was changed immediately. Alpa represents over 30000 airline pilots in the US and they believe that now because of Nicolau's mistake that they would now require three (3) arbitrators to make these decisions from now on. In fact, both United/Continental and Delta/Northwest mergers have and will now use the three arbitrator methodology and the new revised merger policy that obviously precluded a successful SLI integration at AWA/AAA. ALPA also saw the need to revise and mitigate Nicolau's flawed arbitration result and appointed a committee called the Rice commission. The west pilots would have no part of it - they told everyone that would listen that it would be "NIC OR NOTHING"! The arbitration results and the east/west JCBA were required to be voted upon to become ratified and used. This never occurred because east pilots were so disenfranchised by such an arbitration abomination that it never even came to be voted upon because so many told the union that it would be a waste of time and money to put forth a vote. In addition US Airways stonewalled JCBA negotiations that a vote was not in any means a forgone conclusion anytime soon. The flight attendants also were stonewalled in negotions as well so it wasn't just the pilots fault. In addition to Nicolau's failure to construct a valid and useable seniority list he made a lot of incorrect assumptions in construction of said list such as: 1 - Failure to see that the growth was to be in the east because of population and business density on the east, 2 - All east furloughees were in the process of being recalled and all would eventually be recalled in short order because the east had downsized more than any in its history. 3 - Price of fuel had risen to make the west mostly unprofitable and downsizing west was an option but since the east was growing 24% of east flying was transferred west to prevent another 350 furloughs on the west side. 4 Erosion of yield in the west because of competition from Southwest Airlines. 5 - Reduction of discretionary spending and resultant decrease in flying by the predominantly leisure low yield west market. So failing to forsee these 5 examples the fact remains that the prime reason that the NIC is proven to be unfair is because 30000 plus airline pilots saw the results and deemed the result so unfair that merger policy was changed and now three arbitrators are now used in SLI arbitrations to prevent a single arbitrator from making a mistake. Someone once told me that " Three neutral arbitrators decisions are powerful evidence of a fair arbitration". And over 30000 airline pilots that don't have a dog in this fight can't be all wrong either.
 
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