April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

The all or nothing Nicolau cram down is no longer an option. Now they expect another crack at you. I guarantee their Nic plan was going down on you if they could. They can't. They were warned, they persisted.
We need to run this to the end, and propose DOH with good PHX protections. You cannot let Leonidas have one more shot at your career. Most of us are leaving within 10 yrs. protect what you have left. Give Parker the list, sue if he balks. Run this to the end. The more junior guys paid dearly to position the airline for the AWA U merger. You had your pension eliminated to make the two airlines compatible.
Judge Silver cannot make anybody propose anything. Push her to the point where she is forced to make a stand. Take her to the 9 th.

Agreed here in full sir.

 

[Black Swan]

I don't remember their posts about them wanting pay disparity. Parker certainly took advantage of the situation. I was at the brown bag when Snapbacks were discussed. I'm not sure if it's archived in Wings but be basically said it was a no-go. If he agreed to allow it, fine with me. That's something you had to address with him. Not our fight.

Go to the Cactuspilot website. There is an actual clock counting to the second the East pay being the lowest. It was a weapon Leonidas used. I for one, am all in for no more compromise. The West laughed every second and actively worked to keep our pay down. DOH is the way I get it back up.
There is no compromise Siegal or Silver can force on USAPA. None. If she tries it goes to the Ninth. She has no authority to even suggest this. Siegal should be countered with Bill Wilder. It is high time he shows up in court to squash this idiotic Siegal-Silver abortion.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Departing Athens, and coming up the NE side of Italy, the controllers will not use the word Cactus and call us "Alpha Whiskey Echo 759".

breeze

Good for them!
I remember hearing about some rather funny comments from Shanwick controllers when the "Cactus" call sign went into use.

Side note: Before the merger, I did like the idea of Cactus call sign for AWE flights. It made sense from an ATC standpoint to avoid confusion with AA and also had a bit of character. There are fewer carriers not that use a call sign other than the carrier's name. "Empress" and "Clipper" are long gone. Other than "Speedbird" and "Dynasty", I can't think of others

 

[Black Swan]

If there were only a way to avoid that circle jerk.

How about a method where both parties get together. Agree on a process. Choose a neutral third party and both sides equally make their case. Then that neutral third party makes a final and binding decision so we don't have to go to court, spend a bunch of money and wait years for a decision.

I know we could call it final and binding arbitration.

The entire point of the exercise is to avoid what you east pilots have caused. Live up to your deal and we would not be here.

NO WAY. SYIC

 

[nycbusdriver]

Wow! You already asked all those guys? I think you have been misinformed. IN FACT APA put out a union update that said SPECIFICALLY that DOH was NO GO.

Keep spinning.

Maybe APA is advocating no DOH for the M/B process.

Right now we're concerned with east/west SLI, and the APA has no say in that.

Judge Silver has had a lot to say, though.

(See below for a sample)

 

[nycbusdriver]

Departing Athens, and coming up the NE side of Italy, the controllers will not use the word Cactus and call us "Alpha Whiskey Echo 759".

breeze

I won't usually answer them when they do that. After a few calls I ask them if they are calling "Cactus XXX." If they issue a clearance, I insist on the correct call sign, or will not readback. Eventually, they have to choke it out.

Had a Gander Radio operator do the same thing. Reported his butt, and it hasn't happened since.

 

[Phoenix]

Very good post.

This is imperial evidence the West sees the Nic is dead. Even Tic Toc prechil sees it. Best bring "southern charm" to CLT today.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Wow! You already asked all those guys? I think you have been misinformed. IN FACT APA put out a union update that said SPECIFICALLY that DOH was NO GO.

Keep spinning.

Post it.

 

[end_of_alpa]

You did read that closely correct?

She told you that DOH is dead.

That is NOT what she said.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Go to the Cactuspilot website. There is an actual clock counting to the second the East pay being the lowest. It was a weapon Leonidas used. I for one, am all in for no more compromise. The West laughed every second and actively worked to keep our pay down. DOH is the way I get it back up.
There is no compromise Siegal or Silver can force on USAPA. None. If she tries it goes to the 9 th. She has no authority to even suggest this. Siegal should be countered with Bill Wilder. It is high time he shows up in court to squash this idiotic Siegal-Silver abortion.

Exactly. And if Tattoo comes back from Fantasy Island tomorrow with a new proposed list that is NOT straight DOH here are my personal requirements to maybe vote "yes." I do get to vote, by the way. Its the law.

1) Immediate restoration of 401k contributions for all LTD pilots
2) Immediate payment of all 3% raise moneys ending on 8 Feb 13
3) Some kind of lump sum to all East pilots to make up for the year of extra pay the West got over the last 8.

And then I still might vote no, if the list punishes our 88 and 89 hires. And this list will have to have a new contract attached to it also.

I told you all before there will be small windows of opportunity going down the road to improve our lot. This may or may not be one of those. Even if nothing comes from Silver as to status for the West Class in M/B, Parker will be back pitching it down the road. Since he has once again stabbed the East in the back with his 180 on ripeness, he can pound sand until he pays up. Thank goodness we have the MOU, we can now go against this man while getting paid to do so.

But all that said ( and most of it.....yep, fantasy!) I would be shocked if a compromise if reached. I KNOW USAPA is able and can come off DOH in the right scenero, but I also know the West Class will never give up the NIC.

Greeter

 

[Claxon]

You did it to yourself you baby. Can't you take responsability for ANYTHING that has happened to you? The list of blame is a mile long with you people. Funny, you know who's NEVER on that list? East Pilots. Your opportunity for pay parity was an improved contract. You walked away. YOU. WALKED. AWAY.

BTW, I have never, and am not now, advocating for any kind of deal with USAPA. If it's ripe, Which everybody emphatically says it is...except USAPA...then this will move fwd possibly to another Jury trial. However, the MOU that USAPA overwhelmingly ratified has a dispute resolution mechanism built right into it. Arbitration. AOL has been tasked to reach some kind of compromise with you. A Fair...I know you hate that word....a FAIR alternative is allowing an Arbitrator to decide between the Nic. and DOH. If you have a problem doing that, then you have a problem with fairness, which is a DFR problem.

Who are Symanski's clients again?

Poor Kevin Horner got himself in quite a bind. Helped found Lyingitas on false promises. Poor Kevin just didn't quite measure up on Railway Labor fundamentals. He sure peddled a lot of memberships to an army that turned up to have no weapons legally.
Funny, how he is all over this issue now. Because they are seriously pissed at Mr. Horner in PHX. Lets see how Kevin keeps trying to unwind his bad position he got himself in. Sure is going to be interesting watching from afar!

 

[Phoenix]

Exactly. And if Tattoo comes back from Fantasy Island tomorrow with a new proposed list that is NOT straight DOH here are my personal requirements to maybe vote "yes." I do get to vote, by the way. Its the law.

1) Immediate restoration of 401k contributions for all LTD pilots
2) Immediate payment of all 3% raise moneys ending on 8 Feb 13
3) Some kind of lump sum to all East pilots to make up for the year of extra pay the West got over the last 8.

And then I still might vote no, if the list punishes our 88 and 89 hires. And this list will have to have a new contract attached to it also.

I told you all before there will be small windows of opportunity going down the road to improve our lot. This may or may not be one of those. Even if nothing comes from Silver as to status for the West Class in M/B, Parker will be back pitching it down the road. Since he has once again stabbed the East in the back with his 180 on ripeness, he can pound sand until he pays up. Thank goodness we have the MOU, we can now go against this man while getting paid to do so.

But all that said ( and most of it.....yep, fantasy!) I would be shocked if a compromise if reached. I KNOW USAPA is able and can come off DOH in the right scenero, but I also know the West Class will never give up the NIC.

Greeter

Ironically anyone who facilities a solution seriously has to consider they will be voted out post haste and risks ever being a rep again, but that is why they get paid the big bucks.

 

[usabusdriver]

Good for them!
I remember hearing about some rather funny comments from Shanwick controllers when the "Cactus" call sign went into use.

Side note: Before the merger, I did like the idea of Cactus call sign for AWE flights. It made sense from an ATC standpoint to avoid confusion with AA and also had a bit of character. There are fewer carriers not that use a call sign other than the carrier's name. "Empress" and "Clipper" are long gone. Other than "Speedbird" and "Dynasty", I can't think of others

Geez, there are a bunch. Off the top of my head how about Shamrock, Springbock, Citrus, Waterski, Bluestreak, Brickyard.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Geez, there are a bunch. Off the top of my head how about Shamrock, Springbock, Citrus, Waterski, Bluestreak, Brickyard.

I was thinking of major carriers; you are right, of course!

 

[prechilill]

Wow! That was very well put. The AWA pilots have always said they weren't really interested in anything the east had anyway. Now it's time for them to put up, or shut up.

Parker can't refuse a list that is cost neutral without having his ass in court. Judge Silver has been very explicit in verbalizing that there is no necessity to use the Nicolau. She was speaking to Parker as much as to the Leonidas class. He wanted that answered in the last lawsuit, but Judge Silver was evasive in her answers then. Now, she could not be more clear.

A330... Prechilill is close, my old friend. Please, no stains... Thank you.