April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

I found the AMERICA WEST AIRLINE drug trafficking trial fascinating. Patrick Thurston, Vice President of Operations AMERICA WEST, Bob Russell, Chief of Pilots, and Carl Wobser, a captain, all pleaded guilty to multiple counts of narcotics trafficking. They had purchased a DC 6 and embarked upon aT h) Tcareer in the drug trade. Unfortunately for them their plane, which they maxed out electronically, had chronic engine problems which required them to touch down unexpectedly in several countries. This was more than embarrassing since they had not filed flight plans. On one such emergency stop in Aruba, on the way back from Columbia, their plane was found packed with marijuana. There is reason to believe that their intended cargo was cocaine and that after a mix)up they did not wish to fly back empty. Dispite the lofty positions these men held with AMERICA WEST they seemed to have no dificulity getting time off for their drug flights and AMERICA WEST wanted to rehire Russell after his 6 months in the Federal country club.

Twenty percent of the stock of AMERICA WEST was owned by ANSETT AIRLINES of Australia and 55% of ANSETT was held by Sir Peter Ables and Rupert Murdock. We know from Jonathan Kwitney's book THE CRIMES OF PATRIOTS that Burny Houghton, perhaps the key figure in the founding of the CIA drug money laundering bank NUGAN)HAND in Australia, had coffee with Sir Peter Ables the night of his first day in Australia.

I watched Assistant U.S. Attorney James Lacey prosecute both rounds of this case. The three AMERICAN WEST pilots had all plea bargained out. If they did not testify truthfully about the others in the case they would be looking forward to serious time. Lacey prosecutes all the large narcotics cases in Arizona. Because he is the son of Frederic Lacey, the federal judge appointed by the Justice Department to be administrator of the TEAMSTERS UNION, Jim Lacey has unusual clout in the U.S. Attorney's office here. Although Lacey could not deny the pertinence of the information I gave him it was clear that he did not want to know where this case ultimately led. I watched him play patty cake with the defendants when he should have been playing hard ball.

The plot began in July of 1986 when Helmut Bubbel called Thurston from Alaska and arranged a meeting at the ARIZONA BILTMORE RESORT HOTEL with Thurston and the other pilots. Ten days later they met again in Bangkok Thailand to arrange their first cargo. Their original plan was to make their pick up in communist Laos. One doesn't go to the great difficulty to travel to restricted Laos to purchase marijuana or Thai stick as the pilots claimed. Pot is legal in Thailand. One goes to Laos for heroin. Thurston testified that his cut of this first flight was to be one million dollars. When I ran the numbers for Lacey it was obvious that only a heroin cargo would generate this amount of profit. With the DC 6 three or four flights a year would have provided the entire US requirement for heroin.

You what they say about glass houses Claxon. I have a few stones myself. Pilots who were not hired by America West, I'll add.

Pilot suspended after girl-photographing allegation

http://www.examiner.com/article/pilot-arrested-for-alleged-upskirt-photo

Former US Airways pilot convicted of tax fraud

http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/Former-US-Airways-pilot-convicted-of-tax-fraud-142398245.html

US Airways Pilot's Gun Fires In Cockpit

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-3965159.html

US Airways pilot arrested for assaulting hotel security agent

http://privateofficerbreakingnews.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-airways-pilot-arrested-for.html

To top it all off, the hard landing Billy Mays never recovered from:

http://current.com/community/90306661_hard-landing-on-us-airways-related-to-billy-mays-death.htm

 

[Zone5]

As I said...pay attention...we are discussing a court ordered 3 way, fully independent East/West MB process. It's most likely illegal for a variety of reasons. It's something Silver has asked for briefs on. I am in no way suggesting it will/should/can happen. It's just curious to me how much fervor the idea of a truly fair and neutral integration that concept has caused. The idea of being barred from dictating a thing to the West seems to have some of you in a panic. I'd suggest you start wrapping your mind around the fact that one way or another, USAPA is getting control of any of this stripped out of their hands.

There is no such thing as a "a truly fair and neutral integration" you either have the "juice" to bend it your way or you don't. Looks like AOL don't. NIC or nothing, to the death! See you at the wake.


seajay

 

[Pi brat]

Pi notice how he completely ignored your LUP comment? He has sure been crowing about it for the last few months - why has his focus turned elsewhere?

I did. Him and the rest of the usual suspects. Funny how it went from a serving of Nic to a redeeming 3 way, even thought their pseudo union backs up Pat on that one.

 

[Winglet]

What a pathetic, dismal mess the APA is going to have to deal with.

 

[Zone5]

No. Certified West class, certified East class, neutral USAPA...I know it's impossible to fathom, but the law requires the union to be neutral...(who are Symanskis true clients again)
You want to make it sound impossibly complicated. It isn't. Just fair and neutral. That's where you're having a problem with the idea. Don't worry. It won't happen. I still stick with preliminary injunction. USAPA is incapable of fair representation. I think that's being made obvious.

You really need to step away from that peyote pipe.

"Peyote, Lophophora williamsii is a small, spineless cactus with psychoactive alkaloids, particularly mescaline." How apropos, is that definition! Kind of says it all about the "mind set" of the AOL cactus crowd.

When do we get to dump the "Cactus" call sign? Can't be too soon. What an embarrassment, in Europe the and ground controllers call us US Airways. I think it has something to do with the paint job and the desire to avoid potentially dangerous confusion. Go figure.


seajay

 

[snapthis]

What a pathetic, dismal mess the APA is going to have to deal with.

There is no way that the APA is going to go along with USAPA's DOH drivel, especially when there is a arbitrated list already. The APA isn't going to want to touch that with a 10 foot pole. This is going to go to another set of arbitrators for resolution. And do you think they are going to take USAPA's fantasy DOH list over a list (regardless of its merits) that a fellow arbitrator made when both parties argreed to BINDING arbitration???

USAPA better start getting creative or they're going to come out of it looking like complete jackasses.

It looks like you called it right in February.

 

[Pi brat]

Sorry? Must have missed it. What's the LUP comment? How is the need for an LUP changed any? Where do you think my focus is?

"THE COURT: Okay. Okay. I agree with you. But the
legitimated union purpose can be in representing everyone which
would also be the East Pilots and coming up with a combination;
right? You agree that there are a variety of different
seniority agreements --"

 

[Zone5]

Well, hate to break it to you, but she ordered that very thing. Siegle is mediating talks between the parties at an undisclosed location. It's a farce because it's not binding on anyone, but it's happening none the less. You'd have to ask her what the point of all of this is.

The point of conducting such "court ordered" mediation is to demonstrate "good faith" and the "power" of the court. When the status of such negotiations are reported to the court, at the next hearing, Judge Silver will get an ego stroke, followed by another admonition to "keep up the good work" and to report back on progress, on some schedule. It's called a "circle jerk" and it's what the legal system does best. That and suck money and time out of everybody's pocket.


seajay

 

[Pi brat]

What a pathetic, dismal mess the APA is going to have to deal with.

I would imagine the APA is laughing their rears off. This will be settled before they have to deal with it and we are completely distracted from the AA/US merger.

 

[cleardirect]

"THE COURT: Okay. Okay. I agree with you. But the
legitimated union purpose can be in representing everyone which
would also be the East Pilots and coming up with a combination;
right? You agree that there are a variety of different
seniority agreements --"

You did read that closely correct?

She told you that DOH is dead.

 

[cleardirect]

The point of conducting such "court ordered" mediation is to demonstrate "good faith" and the "power" of the court. When the status of such negotiations are reported to the court, at the next hearing, Judge Silver will get an ego stroke, followed by another admonition to "keep up the good work" and to report back on progress, on some schedule. It's called a "circle jerk" and it's what the legal system does best. That and suck money and time out of everybody's pocket.


seajay

If there were only a way to avoid that circle jerk.

How about a method where both parties get together. Agree on a process. Choose a neutral third party and both sides equally make their case. Then that neutral third party makes a final and binding decision so we don't have to go to court, spend a bunch of money and wait years for a decision.

I know we could call it final and binding arbitration.

The entire point of the exercise is to avoid what you east pilots have caused. Live up to your deal and we would not be here.

 

[cleardirect]

I would imagine the APA is laughing their rears off. This will be settled before they have to deal with it and we are completely distracted from the AA/US merger.

You are correct. Because of the east pilots childish resistance to accepting what you agree to you have cost this entire pilot group money and destroyed any unity.

You are going to go there divided and worn down from this extended battle. A battle that never should have happened except you easties true to form refuse to understand reality and think you deserve more than you got.

Usapa and east pilots will go down in labor history as the worst thing to happen to labor since Frank Lorenzo.

 

[cleardirect]

Did all of you hard core DOH or death supporters make your threatening calls and send your e mails demanding that the BPR tell the judge DOH is the only fair way and the Nicolau is dead?

Don't forget the statement DOH is the gold standard.

 

[nycbusdriver]

prechilill, on 20 May 2013 - 06:21 AM, said: Silver took a turn into The Twilight Zone.



Perfect.

And, typically, she missed the entire joke. What a ditz!

 

[snapthis]

If there were only a way to avoid that circle jerk.

How about a method where both parties get together. Agree on a process. Choose a neutral third party and both sides equally make their case. Then that neutral third party makes a final and binding decision so we don't have to go to court, spend a bunch of money and wait years for a decision.

I know we could call it final and binding arbitration.

The entire point of the exercise is to avoid what you east pilots have caused. Live up to your deal and we would not be here.

Pssst. Here's the plan.

We could agree to a process and if we don't like the result we could use our majority to form a new union with objective of evading our agreement. After that, we get to make the rules and if anybody complains about not being properly represented, we call it an internal union dispute. We will require them to pay dues but we don't want them holding any positions. If by chance West pilots win an election, we will throw the results out and have a do-over.

If they dare to complain, we take hostages by filing RICO charges.