April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Phoenix]

MR. SZYMANSKI: So, Your Honor, first of all, I​

think -- I thought that it was clear when we argued about the​

declaratory judgment action that USAPA's position was that the​

Nicolau Award was not its obligation and it did not plan to go​

ahead and propose the Nicolau Award or follow the Nicolau​

Award.​

THE COURT: You said that, I believe --​

MR. SZYMANSKI: Transcript from the argument?​

THE COURT: Yes. You're prepared to talk. We want​

to talk and we will want genuine engagement with the West​

Pilots about the seniority proposal and we are proposed to make​

changes. No changes.​

MR. SZYMANSKI: Changes in the date-of-hire proposal,​

not changes in the Nicolau proposal.​

THE COURT: Well, you never said that. If you had​

said that in open Court, then we would have had a hearing at​

that time because the issue was what I made quite clear is that​

you had to go forward. USAPA had to go forward and with an​

open mind and that the Nicolau Award was not irrelevant. It​

was to be considered.​

Perhaps SIlver is under the mistaken belief that the 9th left USAPA and the West free to bargain in good faith, rather than USAPA and the Company free to bargain (and by example, any other legal entity that USAPA must negotiate with.) The 9th was careful to avoid involving itself in internal union disputes and procedures.

It is very interesting to see how far Silver will wade into this, especially in view of the MOU and all the other contingencies that are swirling around.

 

[EastUS1]

Thanks for the update, East. Glad to hear he is OK.

Again snap; I don't personally know ANY details whatsoever, but reasonably figure that anyone surviving an initial cardiac event (presumably without O2 deprived and/or stroke-associated damage), and hospitalized with decent care, has a very good chance of recovering from it these days. Actual mileage may naturally vary, but my older brother has enjoyed the same blood pressure he had as a young-punk Marine ever since his bypass surgery, and regardless of how I point out any inherent unfariness of comparing ours today, he just laughs....even though guilty of at least a technical foul, if not downright cheating, by way of an extensive re-plumbing of his circulatory system. For Mr. Hummel? We can just wish he and his family the best for now, and I'm going optimistic for another human being here, although entirely opposed to his politics.

 

[Bill Brasky]

MR. SZYMANSKI: So, Your Honor, first of all, I​

think -- I thought that it was clear when we argued about the​

declaratory judgment action that USAPA's position was that the​

Nicolau Award was not its obligation and it did not plan to go​

ahead and propose the Nicolau Award or follow the Nicolau​

Award.​

THE COURT: You said that, I believe --​

MR. SZYMANSKI: Transcript from the argument?​

THE COURT: Yes. You're prepared to talk. We want​

to talk and we will want genuine engagement with the West​

Pilots about the seniority proposal and we are proposed to make​

changes. No changes.​

MR. SZYMANSKI: Changes in the date-of-hire proposal,​

not changes in the Nicolau proposal.​

THE COURT: Well, you never said that. If you had​

said that in open Court, then we would have had a hearing at​

that time because the issue was what I made quite clear is that​

you had to go forward. USAPA had to go forward and with an​

open mind and that the Nicolau Award was not irrelevant. It​

was to be considered.​

You're as stupid as your lawyers if you think that by copying prtions of an 82 page transcript out of context makes the case for you. I hope you fools keep up that kind of legal interpretation later this week and next.

Please just cease and desist all the transcript copying. We can all go read it if we haven't already. We know how badly the west got spanked, with more on the way.

As far as the 3-way thing goes, I think the Judge would love to have an easy out like that, I just don't think it's legal. Also, would a 3-way give advantage or disadvantage to USAPA's pilots (East and west) or to APA? Can't tell until it happens, but the law hasn't even comtemplated such an animal. M/B does say that it doesn't apply to groups which are in the same union, therefore, I expect that it won't apply to combining the East and west groups.

I think it is prudent of the Judge to try to educate herself on these issues, since many have never occurred before. Unfortunately for the west class, the laws are pretty clear, even with the company lawyer trying to muddy things up.

 

[cleardirect]

Absolutly, but I voted on that process knowing full well M/B would rule and be final and binding.

But I don't work under the MOU right now. I work under LOA 96 and the guarentee by my union of vote in THAT process.

In order to get a combined seniority lest BEFORE the POR, we all have to ratify it in a CBA.

Chances of that...Zero.

Greeter

You can't be serious. You are demanding that your union use final and binding seniority because that is what you voted for.

Situational ethics at its finest.

Guess what. I voted for final and binding arbitration in the T/A. That is what I want. Since you think time is so important. I vote for the T/A before you voted for the MOU. I go first.

My final and binding happens before your final and binding.

 

[Claxon]

You can't be serious. You are demanding that your union use final and binding seniority because that is what you voted for.

Situational ethics at its finest.

Guess what. I voted for final and binding arbitration in the T/A. That is what I want. Since you think time is so important. I vote for the T/A before you voted for the MOU. I go first.

My final and binding happens before your final and binding.

What happened to your Nicolau list Captain Gay? Ripe? Injunction?
Be careful there at the meet and greet. Don't drink the Kool Aide when Res Judicata offers it.
Your amateur pilot lawyers just spent another wad on another unripe case. Way to go!

 

[EastUS1]

I vote for the T/A before you voted for the MOU. I go first.

My final and binding happens before your final and binding.

Ah! Once more are we all generously treated to amongst the most elegant examples of "mature reasoning" from a finely-honed, young "spartan"...umm..."mind". Good luck with that type of "reasoning" kid.

"I vote for the T/A before you voted for the MOU. I go first." Wouldn't that sort of logic: "I ....before you.... I go first." equally apply to notions of being hired first? Would it be unduly rude to assume you were never a true superstar on any debating teams?

 

[Phoenix]

You can't be serious. You are demanding that your union use final and binding seniority because that is what you voted for.

Situational ethics at its finest.

Guess what. I voted for final and binding arbitration in the T/A. That is what I want. Since you think time is so important. I vote for the T/A before you voted for the MOU. I go first.

My final and binding happens before your final and binding.

You voted for "final and binding" with a veto option call. Strike price was in the money. Option called.

Lesson, don't mess with options.

 

[Claxon]

You can't be serious. You are demanding that your union use final and binding seniority because that is what you voted for.

Situational ethics at its finest.

Guess what. I voted for final and binding arbitration in the T/A. That is what I want. Since you think time is so important. I vote for the T/A before you voted for the MOU. I go first.

My final and binding happens before your final and binding.

Too bad Move2 couldn't be present to add his comments about the Nic being inserted sideways up Leonidas

 

[luvthe9]

Lesson, don't mess with options.

WYE RIVER!!!!!!!

 

[luvthe9]

I heard Cleary took medical leave. Again, third-hand info.

I don't think there is anything barring Hummel from being president due to being on a medical. He is still employed by US Airways, and he is not retired. If he goes on LTD, his job is still there if he can regain FAA medical certification. Pilots come back from LTD all the time.

That was the reason Buck was not able to run in PHL, Hummel is done for quite some time. "Any person of lawful age and of good moral character who is qualified as a pilot with U.S. Airways". This might be the reason, or something about maintaining flight currency .

 

[Bill Brasky]

That was the reason Buck was not able to run in PHL, Hummel is done for quite some time.

I think it will depend on just what damage was done. The FAA just reduced some of the recovery times for some heart issues to as low as 3 months. He won't be in jeopardy of losing his position until he goes on LTD, which is 4 months. The important thing is that he do what is best for his health.

 

[Zone5]

I heard Cleary took medical leave. Again, third-hand info.

I don't think there is anything barring Hummel from being president due to being on a medical. He is still employed by US Airways, and he is not retired. If he goes on LTD, his job is still there if he can regain FAA medical certification. Pilots come back from LTD all the time.

There is no such thing as "medical leave", you are either burning sick time, which you are required to completely exhaust, prior to going on Long Term Disability or you can take early retirement. The better option for most is to go on LTD, which currently pays 50% of current pay (there is a look-back provision used to calculate the actual amount) and you get to keep your medical insurance. Currently (until 1 Jan 2014) you also get the 10% DC retirement benefit, which is based on the dollar amount of your LTD benefit. If you go out on LTD after 1 Jan 2014 (assuming the MOU happens) your LTD benefit goes to 60% and your DC goes away. With the 16% DC that goes into effect on 1 Jan 2014, you actually are worse off financially than you would be under the current LTD plan. The biggest benefit of the new MOU plan is that the current offsets for PBGC and Military retirement income goes away. Currently the company basically steals that income from you by offsetting your LTD income by those retirement payments. Nothing like "kicking them when their down"!

At any rate, while you are "burning sick time" prior going on LTD, you are still considered an active employee. Depending on how much sick time Gary has, he may very well be able to continue as President for quite some time prior to becoming an "inactive" employee on LTD, health permitting of course.


seajay

 

[luvthe9]

I think it will depend on just what damage was done. The FAA just reduced some of the recovery times for some heart issues to as low as 3 months. He won't be in jeopardy of losing his position until he goes on LTD, which is 4 months. The important thing is that he do what is best for his health.

They were suppose to put a message out to night on his condition, so much for transparency the office is doing what ever they can to keep their little empire going, we are all paying there salary and should have the right to know.

 

[Bill Brasky]

They were suppose to put a message out to night on his condition, so much for transparency the office is doing what ever they can to keep their little empire going, we are all paying there salary and should have the right to know.

Dude, have some compassion. Poor guy is not well. Give him a day or two before you jump down his throat. I know Gary, he's an upright guy, no matter what you think.

He's as entitled to privacy as anyone else. I hope he gets well soon and comes back to the helm.

I don't think that any Union guy on FPL worries about currency. They do have to be an active pilot, meaning not on LTD, though.

 

[luvthe9]

Dude, have some compassion. Poor guy is not well. Give him a day or two before you jump down his throat. I know Gary, he's an upright guy, no matter what you think.

He's as entitled to privacy as anyone else. I hope he gets well soon and comes back to the helm.

I don't think that any Union guy on FPL worries about currency. They do have to be an active pilot, meaning not on LTD, though.

Same here, know him well and do wish him the best, I just want somebody that is going to watch out for us not management. Just my opinion.