April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Black Swan]

Yep- we can start with a staple of the east and go from there.

You sound like the Japanese generals after the first atomic bomb. Get ready for one more after you keep pushing the Nicolau garbage. You lost today, you lose even harder soon. And you will find out what Silver will soon learn. A judge cannot tell a labor union how to order a seniority proposal. Leonidas is pretty much finished telling anybody anything. So is Harper. The compromise was merely a suggestion. She cannot force a compromise by any stretch. She has no authority to meddle in an internal union affair.
I promised you the Nic would not be in place when the sun went down in PHX.

 

[flyer63]

The westies have been approached for a compromise more than once, the most notable time being Wye River. It is they who refuse to compromise, not the East. They even refused to participate in the construction of the C&Rs, which eventually were constructed and give virtually all protections to the westies, and almost nothing to the East side.

She can request a compromise all she wants, and I hope she gets it, but it is the "Nic or nothing" attitude that has to change. The westies will lose it all if they don't, Just like your ALPA lawyer Freund said before you fired him.

I can think of three times off the top of my head.

Wye river
Cleary trip to Dallas to meet EF
hummell recent letter to AOL

 

[Black Swan]

Snap,
Silver can't tell a union how to bargain. She is in a bad spot like your boy Wake was in. USAPA is mandated to use DOH with C&R'S.

Hate

Absolutely. And this is how it will now go down.

 

[Claxon]

Watch marty and andy leave, now that it is certain they will not be able to sue for damages. west, marty and andy will abandon you now, but not quite as hastily as alpa did when USAPA was voted in.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Step back and look at the big picture. Why is USAPA in Court? Not by choice. Is that how the NMB process and the RLA works? There is an impasse in labor negotiations and a certain group of pilots gets management to intervene with their option (Siegel, AMR, Parker, etc.?) and goes to Federal Court, where a Judge like Silver now becomes a mediator? Don’t think so.

And I am not reading Silver’s actions like most of you. This is Harper’s last chance to present evidence USAPA is acting under the tenets of a true DFR. He was unable to do so today, he has a week to consolidate his feces. But he has a problem, his clients are NIC or nothing. And he cannot use anything in history until after the Wake dismissal by the Ninth. What is his bad faith, 4 guys in a van? Really?

Why the assumption USAPA will, or has to come off DOH? Judge Silver read enough to know that track alone is not a DFR by definition. What will be interesting (but predictable) is if the West Class comes off the NIC. Not going to happen, assuring a ruling of ripeness and dismissal by Silver. That is my prediction.

The Judge can do what she wants, but it will be only her decisions that will trigger a review, and only then her actions leading up to that become relevent to the higher courts. She is not going to get too goofy, looks bad on the resume’. Good judges try and fix problems, but in the end they follow the law.

Consider this…Marty and Pat reach an agreement on Monday on how to merge the two pilot groups, and walk into Judge Silver’s court holding hands and smiling. Is that the list? Nope, there has to be a vote by the pilots in a CBA East/West. And that vote has to pass. But wait, its ripe, we already voted on a new CBA! (at least according to Harper and the West Class) So does this new mediated list now simply become the list? No way, in fact to use such logic means the pilots could NOT have voted on a final list ratifying the MOU. You have to vote on what you are voting on. No subtitutions after an election allowed. Ever.

Greeter

 

[snapthis]

Snap,
Silver can't tell a union how to bargain. She is in a bad spot like your boy Wake was in. USAPA is mandated to use DOH with C&R'S.

Hate

Judge Silver made it very clear that Marty and Pat were the students. This is her classroom. I enjoyed watching Pat get paddled until Marty got a few licks. You are not getting DOH, we are not getting the Nic.

She makes the rules, we comply.

Take your chances with the 9th if you don't like the outcome.

 

[Hate2fly]

Would you westies video your meet and greet for us. I would pay to go see the spin coming out of that meeting.

Hate

 

[Phoenix]

You sound like the Japanese generals after the first atomic bomb. Get ready for one more after you keep pushing the Nicolau garbage. You lost today, you lose even harder soon.

Plaintiff risk: Ripe, Dismissed, and Bound from intervening anymore other than in accordance with the MOU

Company risk: Ripe, Injunction, Stay of Injunction pending appeal at 9th, UCC saying WTFN

Defendant risk: Ripe, Guilty of DFR (ha, ha), Status Quo pending appeal at 9th

But the biggest risk:

Silver Risk: 9th spanking for interfering in internal union dispute

 

[Beancounter]

Silver Risk: 9th spanking for interfering in internal union dispute

The ninth can't even find its own @$$, let alone that of any one else. Give me a break.

Bean

 

[Claxon]

Judge Silver made it very clear that Marty and Pat were the students. This is her classroom. I enjoyed watching Pat get paddled until Marty got a few licks. You are not getting DOH, we are not getting the Nic.

She makes the rules, we comply.

Take your chances with the 9th if you don't like the outcome.

No, the Judge put the last nail in your nic effort.

 

[snapthis]

Yup. Hope for a compromise, and, if not, dismiss due to lack of ripeness. That's what she's legally obligated to do, and she knows it. And she knows the Ninth is watching.

Exactly.

But all parties except USAPA see something ripe.

She made at least a couple of references to the 9th that drew a chuckle. There are courtroom politics and the name of the game is if you want to move to San Francisco some day.....

 

[Claxon]

The ninth can't even find its own @$$, let alone that of any one else. Give me a break.

Bean

Judge Silver does not agree with your 9th admonition.

 

[Black Swan]

Judge Silver made it very clear that Marty and Pat were the students. This is her classroom. I enjoyed watching Pat get paddled until Marty got a few licks. You are not getting DOH, we are not getting the Nic.

She makes the rules, we comply.

Take your chances with the 9th if you don't like the outcome.

Wanna bet? Again? She does not make the rules. She enforces them. And there is no way she tells USAPA how it has to order a seniority issue. That, is labor law.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

No, the Judge put the last nail in your nic effort.

The NIC has been dead since the Ninth ruled. Could someone please tell the West Class that? How many years has it been? Silver is just poking a stick at a dead frog.

Greeter

 

[prechilill]

Judge Silver made it very clear that Marty and Pat were the students. This is her classroom. I enjoyed watching Pat get paddled until Marty got a few licks. You are not getting DOH, we are not getting the Nic.

She makes the rules, we comply.

Take your chances with the 9th if you don't like the outcome.

That's how I take it as well. DOH is dead as of today.
It will probably be the NIC with some special C&Rs to protect the 10 or so 330s the east brought to the merger. I'm happy with tgat and it's a win-win for all pilots.