April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Bill Brasky]

This is the Court USAPA supporters pinned their hopes to.

USAPA didn't file this, AOL did.

You're still an idiot.

 

[cleardirect]

You are going to lose today. I am going to keep it short and sweet.
What keeps Parker from using the Nicolau? Easy. The RLA. That simple. The same collective bargaining rules that he follows on all other matters. He cannot impose the Nic.
Neither can Silver. Just as Wake could not.
No roads lead to the Nicolau. All you have is your attempt, attempt at harm. And you voted for he MOU. Not smart.

The RLA? Really. So the T/A that is part of our contracts that says Parker has to use the Nicolau. If he company's with the contract you think he would violate the RLA.

Good one.

He would not be imposing a seniority list unlike what usapa wants to do. Parker would be complying and implementing an agreed to process.

But you keep your hopes up that usapa can continue this delay for another couple years.

 

[Bill Brasky]

You have no clue of my knowledge, experience and education when it comes to unions, collective bargaining, and grievance procedures.

Yes we do. You're on here showing your ignorance daily.

 

[Phoenix]

The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA.​

​

That makes a lot of sense. Relying on the most overturned court in the land...

Are you claiming the plaintiffs aren't implicitly assuming the Nic is binding on USAPA?

Or better yet, lets pretend the plaintiffs are NOT implicitly assuming the Nic is binding on USAPA (even though Marty repeatedly does)... if not, on what basis would Silver give you an injunction, or on what basis would DUI unilaterally impose the Nic?

 

[cleardirect]

Clearless said:"AMR weighted in in AZ and told the court that they need a decision" and this " the company told the court the case is ripe". Clearly you do know it is the court that does the "telling". As for the other: Isn't it a little early to start drinking in PHX?

You are correct. The court may tell usapa that lecturing the judge on what she said and getting it wrong is not going to go well for your little lawyer today.

He needs to learn to read the entire paragraph and the next one not just the sentence he likes.

 

[Phoenix]

You are correct. The court may tell usapa that lecturing the judge on what she said and getting it wrong is not going to go well for your little lawyer today.

He needs to learn to read the entire paragraph and the next one not just the sentence he likes.

So far USAPA has no injunction against them requiring that they use the Nic. Do you expect that to change, or will Marty simply be left to continue spinning every word in an attempt to persuade USAPA to just go ahead and capitulate to using the Nic anyway? More "Hail Marty" football?

 

[Black Swan]

The RLA? Really. So the T/A that is part of our contracts that says Parker has to use the Nicolau. If he company's with the contract you think he would violate the RLA.

Good one.

He would not be imposing a seniority list unlike what usapa wants to do. Parker would be complying and implementing an agreed to process.

But you keep your hopes up that usapa can continue this delay for another couple years.

It is going to be years. And it will not be the Nicolau. The sun will set in Phoenix tonight, and you still won't have the Nic. I guarantee you that.
Parker cannot impose the Nic. He has to deal with the list USAPA, the pilots union, submits. It is all rather easy to understand.

 

[Black Swan]

USAPA didn't file this, AOL did.

You're still an idiot.

When you chase your tail for years, you start to lose your balance. Yes. AOL is the one going after another un ripe issue. Again.

 

[pjirish317]

Have you east pilots considered the position that you are find yourselves?

The situation has changed but I think you fail to understand. In the NY action brought by usapa. The UCC and AMR told the BK court that this is Parker's problem that needs to be solved before us airways and AMR pilots can merge. Judge Lane pointed that fact out during the hearing.

AMR weighted in in AZ and told the court that they need a decision on the merits quickly and this needs to be solved first, before the merger. They also said that this case is ripe.

The company has told the court this case is ripe and they need a decision on the merits. The company has told the court and the NMB that it is usapa that is delaying and a dragging out the seniority dispute.

Usapa first asked for a delay because of the NY action. They told the court that the case would not be ripe until the MB processes is complete, that could be another couple years. In usapa's latest filing they are complaining that the rules are not being followed that they need extensive discovery and that this case should not be heard for a long time.

The UCC, AMR and the company have all said that they need an answer on the merits quickly and they can't wait anymore. At what point do the money men ignore the delay tactics of a union that is about be no longer exist and move on with an 11 billion deal?

Here is my question. What if Parker and AMR just decide that they are going to abide by the T/A and implement the Nicolau? They have said the MOU is a contract. A contract triggers the T/A and implements the Nicolau. No negotiations for seniority between east west. They can integrate east west flying. No more liability from the west.

What stops Parker from using the Nicolau if the case is dismissed or delayed?

If usapa gets what they are asking for no ones problem is fixed and we will be back in court some time in the distant future. If the company does what they should have done years ago this ends.

I think the last thing usapa would want is what they are asking for. Dismissal. That means Parker finally makes a decision and that is unappealable to any court. Dismissal goes under the careful what you wish for label.

What stops Parker, AMR and the UCC from making the decision to use the Nicolau?

Fear of a dying union? Fear of east pilots with an injunction against them? Delaying for a couple more years losing money running separate ops? Usapa has backed Parker into a corner and he needs to move now. Delay has worked for you but that horse has been ridden into the ground.

The other possibility is the judge grants a temporary injunction. Either today or in the very near future requiring usapa and the company to use the Nicolau.

She grants usapa all the things they asked for. delay, expensive discovery, an investigation into rules violations all of it. Once that injunction is in place usapa can drag this out as long as they want. Do all the discovery they want. But the Nicolau is the list that they will have to use during the delay getting to the trial on the merits. Any appeal of the temporary injunction will take a long time to be heard. The APA will become the bargaining agent and drop the appeal and most likely accept the temporary injunction as permenant.

The way I see it you east pilots are in a no win situation. If the judge agrees with usapa and dismisses. Parker decides on his own and implements the Nicolau because he needs the deal done. If the judge grants a temporary injunction that becomes the list for a very long time until we get to a trial that usapa never wants to happen.

All roads lead to the Nicolau.

How do any of you east pilots see usapa winning today?

How would Parker and AMR "force" USAPA to use the nic? Since when does AMR have a say in the pilot dispute PRIOR to POR? And if in fact the MOU is a JCBA, then why hasn't all US pilots gotten their raise set forth in it, or a single system bid for ALL pilots, East and West bidding together? What does the MOU state about prior agreements? What has to happen in order for the MOU to take affect?

 

[Black Swan]

You have no clue of my knowledge, experience and education when it comes to unions, collective bargaining, and grievance procedures.

You stated for years the Nicolau was binding. You are wrong every single day.
You failed to understand USAPA as the successor agent is under no obligation to a formerly arbitrated internal union arbitration. One never memorialized by a JCBA.
That is enough evidence for me to consider your opinions and experience with suspicion, since you got the biggest part wrong.

 

[nycbusdriver]

AMR weighted in in AZ and told the court that they need a decision on the merits quickly and this needs to be solved first, before the merger. They also said that this case is ripe.

The company has told the court this case is ripe and they need a decision on the merits. The company has told the court and the NMB that it is usapa that is delaying and a dragging out the seniority dispute.

Hahahaha!

"The company has told the court this case is ripe." Do you even read what you write? The company doesn't get to "rule" on ripeness, or anything else. The company doesn't get to "tell" the court anything other than their own opinion.

AMR doesn't get to dictate the court calendar.

But somehow you frigging westholes think whatever the company wants is what the court will do, the law be damned.

You are effing out of your skulls.

 

[700UW]

You will see the nic will be used, changing unions doesnt get you out of an arbitration decision.

You dont have a JCBA thats why it isnt in place yet.

 

[Black Swan]

You will see the nic will be used, changing unions doesnt get you out of an arbitration decision.

You dont have a JCBA thats why it isnt in place yet.

More evidence you don't have a clue. There will never be a East- West JCBA now. AA is now in the mix.

 

[nevergiveup]

You will see the nic will be used, changing unions doesnt get you out of an arbitration decision.

You dont have a JCBA thats why it isnt in place yet.

Have you read the part in the MOU about what happens to the TA after the effective date?

 

[Phoenix]

T- 1 day, 14 hours and 14 minutes...

RIPE

Time check please...