APFA shows it's true colors toward former TWA

[MCI transplant]

Technically, it still wasn't AA who put the gun to your head. It was TWA, who would have been arguing in bankruptcy court to void the contract, not AA.

If anything, the situation was a case of having a death row inmate (Compton) holding a gun to the head of an end stage cancer patient in a coma (the unions)... You can argue all you want about the outcome, but the fact is that Compton's options were pretty limited, and so were the unions'.

<_< ----- FM!!! Now it's Compton who's the bad guy?
You really must take us all for fools! How much did Compton walk away from this deal with? Who was really pulling the strings, and levers behind the green drape? "Don't pay any attention to that man behind the drape!" We went into this thing in good fath! Our problem was we believe aa's promoses of a fair introgration!

 

[TWAnr]

You are correct. They were expected to give up specific point. But again that was AA not APFA. At that time there was no clause in our CBA.

However, it was all but a done deal by that time and AA knew that. Insisting on a waiver of those clauses on the pretext that it was for the purpose of mirroring the union contracts at AA was disingenuous at best.

I have it from a reliable source that the IAM was advised that Allegheny-Mohawk LPP language was about to be added to the APFA CBA at the time that the scope waivers were being discussed between the unions and the company. The fact that the IAM ignored those warnings speaks volumes about their ineptitude in representing the flight attendants. They simply did not give a damn; after all, the boys were guaranteed to have binding arbitration to settle their seniority dispute. The entire IAM leadership of that time deserves to rot in hell.

 

[eolesen]

We went into this thing in good fath! Our problem was we believe aa's promoses of a fair introgration!

Then you are indeed a fool.

How fair was it for the original fleet service clerks in STL to be bumped out of their station by the TWA folks?...

I don't ever remember anyone from AA ever claiming that integration would be dictated by corporate policy.

Instead, I recall some very clear language to the effect that all seniority issues were to be worked out by the respective bargaining units, or in the case of the TWU, by an arbitrator.

 

[nyc6035]

How fair was it for the original fleet service clerks in STL to be bumped out of their station by the TWA folks?...

About as fair as AA F/As bumping TWA F/As to fly around in the MD80/757 and replacement 763s that the TWA acquisition brought to the table.

 

[Hopeful]

<_< ----- FM!!! Now it's Compton who's the bad guy?
You really must take us all for fools! How much did Compton walk away from this deal with? Who was really pulling the strings, and levers behind the green drape? "Don't pay any attention to that man behind the drape!" We went into this thing in good fath! Our problem was we believe aa's promoses of a fair introgration!

Did a Federal Arbitrator decide the integration issue or not?

Kasher ruled what he thought was fair and equitable!

 

[eolesen]

Yep. But unless it works in their favor, the TWA people will never accept it as fair because they're in permanent denial about how grim the situation really was in January 2001.

People forget that there was a $100M debt payment due on January 15, 2001, and TW didn't have the cash to make the payment.

They'd already mortgaged everything of any value by 4Q00, and there wasn't anything left with which to secure anymore bank financing. What few investors weren't scared off by Karibu were scared off by the fact TWA was paying above-market rates for most of the MD80, B717 and 757's they'd leased after exiting their second bankruptcy.

While Karibu was definitely Icahn's doing, you can't blame him for Gitner's decision to refleet, which probably had just as much (if not more) impact on TWA's negative cashflow in 2000. Their loss thru Sept 30, 2000 was about $125M, and that was at a time when every other airline was operating well in the black (thanks to the tech bubble).

Absent AA stepping into the mix, there was a very strong possibility that all of the TWA employees would have been on unemployment by February 2001.

Those are verifiable facts, folks.

The other verifiable fact:

10.2 Union Matters. All offers of employment made by Purchaser in accordance with Section 10.1(i) above and all benefits to be provided pursuant to Section 10.1(iii) above will be conditioned on acceptance by all such employees of Purchaser's work rules then in effect and in effect after the Closing Date from time to time that are generally applicable to similarly situated employees of Purchaser.

Purchaser and Sellers agree to encourage their respective unions to negotiate in good faith to resolve fair and equitable seniority integration. Prior to Closing, TWA shall amend all existing Collective Bargaining Agreements relating to any present or former employee of TWA to provide that (i) scope, successorship, and benefits provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreements are not applicable to or being assumed by Purchaser as part of or as the result of the transactions contemplated by this Agreement, and (ii) consummation of the transactions contemplated by this Article X will not violate or breach in any manner any provision of any Collective Bargaining Agreement (collectively, the "CBA Amendments").

That's directly out of TW's bankruptcy filing and out of their filings with the SEC. Forget about Carty's blithering and happy-speak. This is the legal agreement between the two companies, and nowhere does it define what fair is, or what management promised. It simply says that it will be left to the unions to resolve.

Blaming AA or TW management for this is pointless, although if you must place blame at management's feet, start looking at Gitner and Compton, because they're the ones who launched the fleet renewal.

 

[MCI transplant]

Yep. But unless it works in their favor, the TWA people will never accept it as fair because they're in permanent denial about how grim the situation really was in January 2001.

People forget that there was a $100M debt payment due on January 15, 2001, and TW didn't have the cash to make the payment.

They'd already mortgaged everything of any value by 4Q00, and there wasn't anything left with which to secure anymore bank financing. What few investors weren't scared off by Karibu were scared off by the fact TWA was paying above-market rates for most of the MD80, B717 and 757's they'd leased after exiting their second bankruptcy.

While Karibu was definitely Icahn's doing, you can't blame him for Gitner's decision to refleet, which probably had just as much (if not more) impact on TWA's negative cashflow in 2000. Their loss thru Sept 30, 2000 was about $125M, and that was at a time when every other airline was operating well in the black (thanks to the tech bubble).

Absent AA stepping into the mix, there was a very strong possibility that all of the TWA employees would have been on unemployment by February 2001.

Those are verifiable facts, folks.

The other verifiable fact:
That's directly out of TW's bankruptcy filing and out of their filings with the SEC. Forget about Carty's blithering and happy-speak. This is the legal agreement between the two companies, and nowhere does it define what fair is, or what management promised. It simply says that it will be left to the unions to resolve.

Blaming AA or TW management for this is pointless, although if you must place blame at management's feet, start looking at Gitner and Compton, because they're the ones who launched the fleet renewal.

<_< ----You also seem to have forgotten that our TWA Unions were talking to those creditors for a possible buyout! As for your purchase agreement, I'm sure it was well scriped by aa attorneys long before we even entered bankruptcy!!

 

[L1011Ret]

While it is true TWA had a $100 million note due Jan 2001, it is also true TWA believed they could roll the note over. It is also true that a member of the TWA BOD has testified that TWA had $153 million in cash on January 10, 2001.

 

[MCI transplant]

Did a Federal Arbitrator decide the integration issue or not?

Kasher ruled what he thought was fair and equitable!

<_< ----That's debatable! There are law suits pending on interpretation of his rulings, and how aa has implemented them! So it's really not something that is that cut and dry! Kasher has made numerous stabs at explaining what he thinks is fair, with more explanations to come!! Maybe someday he'll get it right???

 

[acmech]

Absent AA stepping into the mix, there was a very strong possibility that all of the TWA employees would have been on unemployment by February 2001.



What difference does Februrary 2001 make verses October 2001. The end result was the same for most all of the former TWA folks and the most junior of AA. So sad that AA treats its people so horrible.

 

[RAG]

And there you go....That's why AA is known as SKY NAZI's...they don't care about anyone else but themselves...and look what happen to the Nazis....AA flight attendants time will come when they get burned just like they burned the TWA flight attendants.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Which brings us full circle! To the APFA member's statement! :rant:

 

[operaations]

Why dont we all just take a look back at History. What events lead AA to purchase TWA.

That would be years of poor TWA management and Carl Ichan screwing every single TWA employee for his own greed.

If it were not for TWA's poor leadership they would never have been in the position for a take over by AA or anyone for that matter.

So to put the blame of your demise soley on AA is very silly

What happpened to TWA is sad and Something I wish never happened. But is started long before AA ever came into the picture

 

[TWskyliner]

Why dont we all just take a look back at History. What events lead AA to purchase TWA.

That would be years of poor TWA management and Carl Ichan screwing every single TWA employee for his own greed.

If it were not for TWA's poor leadership they would never have been in the position for a take over by AA or anyone for that matter.

So to put the blame of your demise soley on AA is very silly

What happpened to TWA is sad and Something I wish never happened. But is started long before AA ever came into the picture

Actually had TWA never had bad management and Ichan...American Airlines would not be flying to London Heathrow and probably would not be the worlds largest airline. Our demise has been very benificial to AA...but once again this thread is about apfa and TWA f/as.

 

[STAAPLED]

<_< ------ Which brings us full circle! To the APFA member's statement! :rant:

Exactly!!!! Intertesting on just how far the original post has gone off track. However, it appears that there is now some concrete evidence (the original post) that suggests the APFA is hostile towards the former TWAers. APFA is a disgrace to the american labor movement and should be brought up on charges (yet again) or better yet de-certified. ALL the other majors have brought back their furloughed F/A's EXCEPT American. Why hasn't the APFA demanded the return of the rest of it's membership? The hijackers from 9/11 can claim victory with the help of the APFA!!! 4,200 former TWA F/A jobs were destroyed on 9/11, while the APFA has stood by and done nothing. Shameful!!!!