APFA shows it's true colors toward former TWA

[aafsc]

Since '"red-headed stepchildren" respond with their typical non-informative twa tripe', it is obvious the only thing you can hear is what you want to hear. You show your discriminatory and hostile feelings towards TWAers with such a statement. No sense replying to those who cannot hear and be open to the viewpoints of others.

It is tripe. I have asked for anyone to point out what I have said is false. All the resposes I have gotten were vague responses from TWAers who keep whining about how they were screwed. Facts I have posted:

FACT 1rior to integration, the APFA legally represented AA flight attendants and AA FLIGHT ATTENDANTS ONLY. They owed nothing to the twa F/As. Same with APA and TWU. The IAM was the legal bargaining agent for the twa F/As as well as ramp and mechanics.

FACT 2: Delta did NOT take all Pan Am employees and the ones they took were not in PA seniority order.

FACT 3: The IAM and TWU went to binding arbitration and the twaers are still not happy as evidenced by the endless lawsuits.

FACT 4: The twaers should be blaming their unions and Icahn for their airline's failure instead of AA, it's unions, and employees.

I don't need to get off the couch and FYI it is Mr. I put 21 years into TWA and just being shy of 50 before my furlough I got screwed out of passes and retirement benefits. We had people who had less time than I did and got everything. That's fair?

And I do not need to go apply to another airline. Fortunately I can survive without AMR. Many of my colleagues need to return just to survive. How do you take a 45yr dedicated TWA employee and just throw them on the street like garbage? Well AA and their so called Union's did.

As far as seniority look at the UA/PA f/a's who received their rightful slot and many other airlines who treated their co-workers with respect and dignity..ie. NW-REPUBLIC -TWA-OZARK-US-PIEDMONT-US-AW.

APFA has been in bed with the company to do everything in their power to sign LOA's to keep the TERRIBLE TWA f/a's off the property until their recall rights expire. The TWA pilots have unlimited recall rights while the TWA f/a's have five year recall rights and even the nAAtives will fall off this October <sacrificial Lamb's>.

Union's are to protect job's and I must say APFA has done a lousy job of doing that.

The people still at AA have been there longer than you and everyone else who got furloughed. Last in, first out.

 

[nyc6035]

Shall we place bets now on when AA will announce new aircraft orders that commence with deliveries starting in August 2008?

I place my bet as the annual 10K filing March 15, 2007.

 

[s80dude]

Not true!!! I have two friends who are former PA f/a's and they did get some type of ratio for their time at DL. Pleeze. They even had to interview for their job at DL but did not get the complete SCREW JOB that APFA gave us.

Why don't you go onthe DL board and ask some of the former PA f/a's for yourself.

We are supposed to be Union Brothers and Sisters...NOT!

Delta gave one year of bidding seniority for every four years at Pan Am or something similar....however the OP is correct.... they did not honor the seniority list when they offered jobs to PA folks...they took people from all different seniorities leaving groups of senior and junior people out to dry.

In defense of the TWA Flight attendants, the ones I met and continue to meet have for the most part been nice. They love to talk about the "good old days" and their stories of exotic layovers years back are pretty interesting.

The only time I ever came accross animosity was shortly after the announcement of our TWO GREAT AIRLINES ONE GREAT FUTURE, when I was still BOS based and in SJU on a layover. A TWA crew came up to us in the airport and told us to pack out bags because they were coming to BOS and taking their time with them. I had four years at the time, and I remember one of the gals told me that is was now my turn to commute to New York.

That was a rare incident as for the most part, they are a great bunch of people. But you know, for the most part, so are the AA flight attendants. It's too bad that A FEW TWA people turn their anger towards the FA leadership at the entire workforce.

The current admin has done nothing but turn their backs to both the TWA group and the AA group as well. Very sad.

 

[aafsc]

Thanks for supporting my statement of fact regarding the Pan Am people.

 

[eolesen]

I've pretty much sat on the sidelines for almost five years watching this argument, and it galls me to no end to listen to people from TWA still insisting that they get full credit for all the time they spent working against AA. Save the "two great airlines" crap for someone more gullible.

I earned my wings at AA, having started there as a new hire. Every dollar in revenue I helped generate for the company is reflected by my seniority date.

Every dollar in revenue generated by TWA employees up until 2001 was a dollar that didn't go into AMR's pocket, so why on earth should anyone expect to be rewarded with seniority while they were working against AA's interests?

 

[TWAnr]

after[/b] the TWA unions were forced to surrender the Scope and Successorship clauses in their contracts in order that they'd mirror the AA unions' CBAs at the time that the merger/acquisition transaction closed.

I was all for filing a DFR suit against the IAM. Unfortunately, due to a leadership vacuum or failure, that was not done before the six months statute of limitations ran out on that cause of action.

 

[FA Mikey]

It was negotiated TA prior, to the TWA anouncement. It was voted on after.

 

[TWAnr]

It was negotiated TA prior, to the TWA anouncement. It was voted on after.

I am sure you know your history.

AA, then, was not forthright on the reasons that they insisted that the TWA unions surrender those protections. According to the bankruptcy court's filings, the company was adamant that it had to be done as a precondition to the close of the transaction so that the collective bargaining agreements at TWA mirror those at AA.

That is called bad faith if not outright fraud. :down:

 

[FA Mikey]

Possibly by AA not APFA, and the topic on hand. But to pull only one article from an entire CBA is stretching it quite a bit.

It would be more valid had they the opportunity to pick and choose which articles to keep eliminate in the TWALLC CBA.

 

[L1011Ret]

Possibly by AA not APFA, and the topic on hand. But to pull only one article from an entire CBA is stretching it quite a bit.

It would be more valid had they the opportunity to pick and choose which articles to keep eliminate in the TWALLC CBA.

It was a condition of the asset purchase agreement that all TWA unions give up scope to mirror the contracts of the unions at AA.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- I believe the alternative was a threat by aa to request the bankruptcy Judge to void all our Contracts, i.e. Northwest! That was the gun aa put to our heads! Which meant aa could have taken it all and let all the employees go! As a foot note, it seems aa pretty much did that anyway! :down:

 

[FA Mikey]

It was a condition of the asset purchase agreement that all TWA unions give up scope to mirror the contracts of the unions at AA.

You are correct. They were expected to give up specific point. But again that was AA not APFA. At that time there was no clause in our CBA.

 

[MCI transplant]

You are correct. They were expected to give up specific point. But again that was AA not APFA. At that time there was no clause in our CBA.

<_< ----- Mikey! Do you really think we are so naive as to think this was all done without the knowledge, and even intervention of all the Unions on the property?

 

[eolesen]

I believe the alternative was a threat by aa to request the bankruptcy Judge to void all our Contracts, i.e. Northwest! That was the gun aa put to our heads! Which meant aa could have taken it all and let all the employees go!

Technically, it still wasn't AA who put the gun to your head. It was TWA, who would have been arguing in bankruptcy court to void the contract, not AA.

If anything, the situation was a case of having a death row inmate (Compton) holding a gun to the head of an end stage cancer patient in a coma (the unions)... You can argue all you want about the outcome, but the fact is that Compton's options were pretty limited, and so were the unions'.

 

[FA Mikey]

<_< ----- Mikey! Do you really think we are so naive as to think this was all done without the knowledge, and even intervention of all the Unions on the property?

Ok so it was the APFA and the TWU who were pulling the strings at HDQ. Well news to me.