APFA shows it's true colors toward former TWA

[MCI transplant]

Why dont we all just take a look back at History. What events lead AA to purchase TWA.

That would be years of poor TWA management and Carl Ichan screwing every single TWA employee for his own greed.

If it were not for TWA's poor leadership they would never have been in the position for a take over by AA or anyone for that matter.

So to put the blame of your demise soley on AA is very silly

What happpened to TWA is sad and Something I wish never happened. But is started long before AA ever came into the picture

<_< ----operaations! Where did anyone claim aa was "solely the blame for the demise of TWA"? At best, TWA had piss poor management! Greedy Leadership, that bleed us to death trying to break the Unions out of the company!( Unsussesfuly by the way!) Flight 800! And a Hummen Leach that sucked our bones dry! Through all this it was the TWA employees that kept it all together! And then they were sold out! Plan and simple! How long could we have lasted without aa? We'll never know now will we? But one thing I can say. We expected better of aa! That didn't work out too well either did it?

 

[L1011Ret]

The story about the F/A seniority issue is informative.
First APFA had no policy about new workers being given new hire seniority.
2. APFA members of the APFA merger committee promised "no stapling."
3. John Ward, the head of APFA offered seniority to all TWA F/As with seniority pre 1986.
4. John Ward was angry and refused TWA F/As who were hired as strike breakers in 1986 any seniority.
5. IAM countered with DOH.
6. John Ward took the issue to the APFA representatives who yelled and screamed, "staple them."
End of story.

 

[TWAnr]

5. IAM countered with DOH.

First, the IAM blundered when they gave up the Allegheny-Mohawk LPP in return for a vague and unenforceable promise that the company will hire a facilitator and use its best efforts to encourage its unions to participate in a fair and equitable process for seniority integration.

Next, The inflexible demand by the IAM for DOH was just as unreasonable as the pure staple advocated by some in the APFA.

The way I heard it, IAM International Vice President Robert Roach, Jr., insisted on nothing short of DOH and refused to consider any other offer.

Well, we ended up with the "nothing" part of his demand.

Lastly, after the staple job, the IAM followed with a series of legal blunders and mistakes in its half hearted efforts to get some redress in courts which did not have jurisdiction over the matter in the first place.

The failed TWA union leadership is just as responsible for this travesty as any other person or entity.

 

[Skymess]

TWSkyliner
Tensions are unusually and understandably high on our side of the tracks. I think our first people start falling off the recall list in less than four months...to top it off to see a post by a union rep (one of our union reps) counting the seconds till the last TWA'er falls off doesn't help.

quote name='STAAPLED' date='Jul 12 2006, 08:32 PM' post='396049']
Exactly!!!! Intertesting on just how far the original post has gone off track. However, it appears that there is now some concrete evidence (the original post) that suggests the APFA is hostile towards the former TWAers.

Let's clear up this last bit of misinformation right now. There seems to be some misunderstanding about who was quoted in the first post. It was not a certain John N who is a union rep it was a Jay N who is NOT.

Even if it were John I don't see anything wrong in informing the membership about things that concern us. Though I am sure that had it been a union rep a lawsuit would have been filed by now. <yawn>

 

[L1011Ret]

I in general agree with TWAnr on several points. First the document purporting "fair and equitable" and a "facilitator" was too vague and probably not enforceable.

Second, IAM's rigid stance when they had no bargaining power was certainly unreasonable as was APFA's "staple" stance.

Going to Federal court to enforce RLA issues was a waste of time and money though I have doubts that bringing a complaint under the RLA would have improved the outcome.

 

[s80dude]

interesting about mr roach and his inflexibility. i had heard that he and ms. cooper came to the meeting with an "our way or the highway" attitude. i had always just guessed it was the AA side trying to make the TWA side look bad and assumed it was a lie.

what is ms. cooper up to these days anyway? i know she holds an elected position as APFA VC for STL, but i do not think she is that active.

 

[aafsc]

It is what I have been saying all along; that the TWAers wouldn't accept anything less than DOH. We saw it with the pilots, we saw it with the F/As, and now we are seeing it with the ramp and mechanics.

 

[nbmcg01]

It is what I have been saying all along; that the TWAers wouldn't accept anything less than DOH. We saw it with the pilots, we saw it with the F/As, and now we are seeing it with the ramp and mechanics.

Actually, there were many of us that thought DOH would be "super seniority". The Allegheny- Mohawk provisions speak to receiving comparable seniority to what you had at your own carrier. (large paraphrase..lol) I'll use my former seniority as an example for clarification...I had a hiring date of 1-14-1970. At TWA I was about 1/4 of the way down the seniority list. At AA if I had been slotted in at 1-14-1970 , I would have been around 1200 to 1400 (out of 24,000) I believe that I should have been slotted in at around 6000. This would have been 1/4 of the way down and comparable to what I would have been at TWA. The reason the former TWA f/as were heard to be asking for DOH is solely because we gave Ozark DOH when we acquired their company. The difference (as I see it) is the difference in overall seniority. AA for the most part had more junior f/as and TWA was "top heavy" in seniority. The main thing to remember is that it never had to be all or nothing. JWs position had very little to do with protecting AA f/as and very much to do with his "killer "Bs" mentality. This is why he was so furious at AA for giving us pay seniority and ultimately why he gave away furlough pay without any credit. It was one way to strike back at ANY senior f/a (even if we had nothing to do with AAs introduction of B scale). Union education would have gone a long way in making the transition more comfortable for all involved. Do you know that there has only been one meeting (in STL) conducted and attended by a National Officer that could be attended by the former TWA f/as. The one mtg was held after the RPA and JW hired the Overland police to be security. I guess he was afraid of a bunch of fussy old women..lol

 

[STAAPLED]

Let's clear up this last bit of misinformation right now. There seems to be some misunderstanding about who was quoted in the first post. It was not a certain John N who is a union rep it was a Jay N who is NOT.

Even if it were John I don't see anything wrong in informing the membership about things that concern us. Though I am sure that had it been a union rep a lawsuit would have been filed by now. <yawn>

Don't be so sure.

 

[Skymess]

Don't be so sure.

Don't be so sure there will be a lawsuit or don't be so sure that John didn't write the post?

 

[s80dude]

Don't be so sure there will be a lawsuit or don't be so sure that John didn't write the post?

Oh for crying out loud. It was not John. That poster was Jay N who is a frequent poster on the aafa4m yahoo board. Jay is an OCR at IDF, and why he put his "title" on his post is beyond me.

 

[L1011Ret]

Yes, a certain John N. from LAX testified at the TWA seniority hearing in Brooklyn. He was judged by TWAers in attendance to be the most honest AAer testifying. On the other hand Jay N has shown nothing but hate for the TWAers in his postings.b

 

[jxcaf]

Senate Statement


FLOOR STATEMENT AIRLINE AMENDMENT

Thursday, April 3, 2003


Mr. BOND. Mr. President, I rise in strong support of the amendment by my colleague from Missouri. We are dealing with another very significant bailout, using taxpayers' money, for the airlines which have been hurt.


I agree with the need to keep the airlines flying. Airlines are absolutely essential to our economy. But I believe when we are sending taxpayers' dollars to airlines, that we have at least some responsibility to ensure the employees are being fairly treated. This, to me, is simply an issue of equity and fairness.


Back when American Airlines acquired TWA, they did not just take the airplanes. They took the hub, they took the facilities, and they took the heart of TWA as well--its employees, employees we have come to know and respect and trust and whose service we have appreciated over the years. Since April 9, 2001, American Airlines and TWA have operated under a single umbrella. On that date, Donald J. Carty, chairman and CEO of American Airlines, stated:


Today, we warmly welcome TWA's employees to the American family. While employees and customers will see business-as-usual for some time, we're looking forward to working together and building a future as one team. Employees at American and TWA are united in our commitment to meeting our customers' needs and providing opportunities for growth in a rewarding work environment. Our theme for today's celebrations is ``Two Great Airlines--One Great Future,'' and I'm sure that, working together, we can fulfill that promise.


I was out there and I joined in that recognition in celebrating two great airlines with one great future, and on January 1, 2002, all TWA employees officially became American employees. At that moment, all former TWA employees were now an integral part of the new team at American Airlines.


Promises were made to the hard-working TWA employees in my home State, and these employees were publicly referred to as the crown jewel of TWA. It was not as if they were ``lucky to have a job at all,'' as some have suggested. They are employees with extensive years of background and years of seniority over a great number of their colleagues at American Airlines and, through their service to the traveling public to our communities, had developed a reputation for service that made this an extremely valuable hub. Had they known that the promises were not going to be kept, there were other options--reorganizing in bankruptcy, seeking alliance with another airline that would treat them fairly. They were made promises of fair treatment. They gave up what they call their Allegheny Mohawk protection rights on the expressed promise that they would be treated fairly.

After American Airlines stapled the TWA seniority list to the bottom, at least the top official of American Airlines came to my office and said: We are going to protect the hub at St. Louis; we are going to put a wall around that and keep former TWA employees serving the traveling public out of that hub, and we are not going to have them laid off because they will continue the TWA service. The wall came down. They were not protected. The crown jewel of TWA, the people in St. Louis, are losing their glitter. These promises made to them were the root of the entire agreement reached between TWA and American Airlines back when this whole deal was going down, and now these promises appear to have been broken.


If the TWA employees knew at the beginning they were merely being taken as a sacrificial lamb, then the deal would likely never have happened. Now the TWA employees, the TWA pilots, and the TWA flight attendants are the blood donors when cuts have to be made.


According to today's issue of the St. Louis Post Dispatch: All American Airlines flight attendants based at Lambert Field will lose their jobs if members of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants approve a contract by April 15 to help the airline avoid bankruptcy.


That is what we are providing money to support? The situation for former TWA pilots is grim as well. Fifty-four percent of former TWA pilots will lose their job before a single former American Airlines pilot will lose his or her job because they were simply stapled to the bottom of the seniority list.


After planned furloughs, there will only be 565 former TWA employees remaining. To help everyone with the math, that is 76 percent of the former TWA pilots and 100 percent of TWA flight attendants in St. Louis who will lose their jobs. They are literally cutting off the family crown jewel.


The senior most TWA pilot hired in 1963 was integrated along with a 1985 hire from American Airlines. That is almost 22 years later, and guess which one is on the chopping block first? Promises made in fairness have not been achieved. In this supplemental bill, we are poised to provide our airlines with $3.5 million to keep them in the air. With that assistance, more layoffs are coming. We must act before more of our talented and qualified employees are let go before junior colleagues within the same organization.


The choice before this body is simple: Support the Talent-Bond amendment and you support fairness, or oppose the Talent-Bond amendment and you decide with the bosses who are strong arming weaker unions, resulting in an extremely unfair integration of two great airlines and one great future. About 5,000 jobs are at stake. I strongly urge my colleagues to support this fair integration proposal.


I yield the floor.






Services · At Work · Biography · Press Section · Links

 

[Hopeful]

Three years ago!

 

[jimntx]

Yes, a certain John N. from LAX testified at the TWA seniority hearing in Brooklyn. He was judged by TWAers in attendance to be the most honest AAer testifying. On the other hand Jay N has shown nothing but hate for the TWAers in his postings.b

If that was John N. who is the APFA base chair at LAX, I am not surprised. He is one of the VERY few true union people at APFA.