APFA shows it's true colors toward former TWA

[MCI transplant]

Attention Moderator

Can you please create a forum for TWA ranting. It seems to me no matter what topic is started on the AA board some one from TWA will come in and start crying about what AA did to its Flight Attendants.

Yawwnnnnnnnnnnnnn

It is getting old. Move on get over it. IMO when you are purchased ....merged or what ever the people working at the carrier that did the take over should be above anyone in seniority at the airline that was absorbed.

Just my opinion.

I have alot of friends and three relatives that have been laid off as TWA flight Attendants. It was not a good thing AA should have never dipped their hands into that airline. I am sure by how great you all say TWA is you would now be a thriving airline under the watch of the great carl ichan.

So please Moderator create a forum for the employees of defunct airlines and airlines of the past so they can all get together and blame their problems on others

<_< ----- Operations! I'm not even a F/A, but I do have one thing I will say! WHY DON'T YOU JUST STICK YOUR BIGOTED HEAD UP YOUR BIGOTED AR$$!!!!----- Oh, sorry! My Cap lock stuck! 😛

 

[TWskyliner]

From Company Policy:
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Violation of these rules may be grounds for dismissal:
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The company encourages all employees to immediately report any incident of harassment forbidden by its policies. Employee services: 800-447-2000

 

[TWAnr]

Attention Moderator

Can you please create a forum for TWA ranting...

Yawwnnnnnnnnnnnnn

It is getting old. Move on get over it...

Just my opinion.

So please Moderator create a forum for the employees of defunct airlines and airlines of the past so they can all get together and blame their problems on others

Whether you like it or not, TWA is now a part of American Airlines' legacy, the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

[operaations]

I do not dislike any of the TWA employees that I currently work with or have met. But the ones that come onto this board and do nothing but Bash AA and all of its current employees are the ones I have a problem with.

Get over it. No one employee at AA had annything to do with the merger take over or purchase of AA but you all come on this board and flame us day in and day out.

It is getting old. If you hate us that much than why bother talking to us about us or even be interesyted in us.

 

[scuba (John Linneman)]

Attention Moderator

Can you please create a forum for TWA ranting. It seems to me no matter what topic is started on the AA board some one from TWA will come in and start crying about what AA did to its Flight Attendants.

Yawwnnnnnnnnnnnnn

It is getting old. Move on get over it. IMO when you are purchased ....merged or what ever the people working at the carrier that did the take over should be above anyone in seniority at the airline that was absorbed.

Just my opinion.

I have alot of friends and three relatives that have been laid off as TWA flight Attendants. It was not a good thing AA should have never dipped their hands into that airline. I am sure by how great you all say TWA is you would now be a thriving airline under the watch of the great carl ichan.

So please Moderator create a forum for the employees of defunct airlines and airlines of the past so they can all get together and blame their problems on others

Edited by Moderator :down: NO personal attacks please!!

The topic of this thread is titled
"APFA shows it's true colors toward former TWA"
and the he/she says,...
"no matter what topic is started on the AA board some one from TWA will come in and start crying about what AA did to its Flight Attendants."

That was the topic operaations,...
How do you survive with a mind like that,...

You need to get over it,...
A/A bought us, that make us A/A,...
Then they screwed us,... that makes us P.O'd
You'd think different if it happened to you,.. and it might.


This site is for all invlolved in Aviation,...

The thread was directed at a topic you don't like so don't read it,...
they are your hands and fingers,... don't touch the buttons if you don't want to see it.

Cry Baby!!!

You're the one crying,... and obviously you have a brain the size of a baby too,...
So, go change your diapers, your breath is starting to smell like dirty pampers,...

Yawnnnnnnnnnn

stupidity makes me tired,...

 

[aafsc]

Moderator,...
Please create a forum for idiots like "operaations,... "
he/she clearly doesn't get it,...

The topic of this thread is titled
"APFA shows it's true colors toward former TWA"
and the he/she says,...
"no matter what topic is started on the AA board some one from TWA will come in and start crying about what AA did to its Flight Attendants."

That was the topic operaations,...
How do you survive with a mind like that,...

You need to get over it,...
A/A bought us, that make us A/A,...
Then they screwed us,... that makes us P.O'd
You'd think different if it happened to you,.. and it might.
This site is for all invlolved in Aviation,...

The thread was directed at a topic you don't like so don't read it,...
they are your hands and fingers,... don't touch the buttons if you don't want to see it.

Cry Baby!!!

You're the one crying,... and obviously you have a brain the size of a baby too,...
So, go change your diapers, your breath is starting to smell like dirty pampers,...

Yawnnnnnnnnnn

stupidity makes me tired,...

As I posted in another thread, AA did not staple/screw you (I'm assumig you are an ex-TWA F/A), the APFA did. Again AA has absolutely NO control over the UNION'S seniority roster. If they did, don't you think the pilots and mechanics/ramp would also have been stapled?

 

[AMFAMAN]

As I posted in another thread, AA did not staple/screw you (I'm assumig you are an ex-TWA F/A), the APFA did. Again AA has absolutely NO control over the UNION'S seniority roster. If they did, don't you think the pilots and mechanics/ramp would also have been stapled?

FYI...AA was a party in the Kasher case. Surely you don't think that the twu would be capable of presenting this case without AA's advice. The link to Kasher follows and the first page and others are posted. I to am a little tired of hearing the seniority fighting after 5 years, but at least let's stick to facts, and the fact is AA was involved.

http://www.local564.org/Links.htm

AMERICAN AIRLINES/TWU/IAM&AW DISPUTE



RESOLUTION COMMITTEE

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- x

:

In the Matter of Interpretations/ Clarifications and :

Supplemental Awards of the April 29, 2002 Seniority :

Integration Opinion and Award involving the :

:

TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION OF AMERICA :

:

And :

:

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MACHINISTS :

AND AEROSPACE WORKERS :

:

And :

:

AMERICAN AIRLINES :

:

Involving the Integration of Seniority Lists Of the :

Mechanics and Related Employees, Fleet Service :

Employees, Stock Clerks and Flight Simulator :

Technicians :

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- x

Arbitration hearings were conducted on February 27 and 28, March 1 and March 11, 2002 at the Wyndham Franklin Plaza in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The hearings were transcribed, and the three parties, represented by counsel, were afforded a full and fair opportunity to present all relevant evidence through the testimony of witnesses and in documentary proofs.

More...

April 10, 2001 has been used for seniority integration purposes by other groups on American property, specifically including pilots, flight attendants and agents.



On November 8, 2001 the Allied Pilots Association and American entered an agreement awarding TWA-LLC pilots American seniority dates retroactive to April 10, 2001. The agreement also held that: (1) American and TWA pilot seniority lists were to be integrated on a basis of approximately 1 TWA pilot to every 8.17 American pilots until only TWA pilots remain and (2) that the small group of American pilots who have a seniority date of later than April 10, 2001 would follow all TWA-LLC pilots on the combined American seniority list. Special provisions were adopted for St. Louis-based positions.



On December 17, 2001 the Association of Professional Flight Attendants and American entered an agreement granting all TWA-LLC flight attendants an occupational seniority date at American of April 10, 2001. Later seniority dates would be granted to TWA-LLC employees who had not completed training or who had not commenced flying as of the April 9, 2001. The American seniority list shall be combined with the revised TWA-LLC seniority list. Special provisions were adopted for St. Louis-based flight attendants.

 

[aafsc]

FYI...AA was a party in the Kasher case. Surely you don't think that the twu would be capable of presenting this case without AA's advice. The link to Kasher follows and the first page and others are posted. I to am a little tired of hearing the seniority fighting after 5 years, but at least let's stick to facts, and the fact is AA was involved.

http://www.local564.org/Links.htm
More...

1. It is the ex-TWAers who are always bringing this crap up either directly or with their snide remarks against AA, it's unions, and it's employees. I am just as tired of it as you are.

2. When the APA and APFA constructed the integrated lists they then presented those lists to AA which agreed to them (APFA was a full staple, APA was not). AA did not make the lists, they agreed to the lists the APA and APFA constructed. Or did you expect AA to say "no, we agree with the TWA unions that the twaers should get full seniority". Do you really think AA was going to pi$$ off the legal bargaining agents for the pilots and F/A during that time of crisis? The APA and APFA did not go to binding arbitration like the TWU did.

3. As for the TWU, since it was an arbitration hearing, AA was present to possibly answer any questions the arbitrator might have for it.

My point is simply this. Since everyone on this board says that AA management is infinately evil and eternally greedy and steals every last penny from it's employees that it can, would not they have put ALL of those very senior, very expensive, top of scale, TWA people on the bottom of ALL the seniority lists if they would have had the power to do so? Yes, if AA had control of the seniority lists of the TWU, APA, and APFA those very senior, topped out TWA people would have indeed been placed at the absoulte bottom of all three lists.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< --- Thank you for the clarification AMFAMAN, but "facts" are something aafsc only uses only if they favor his point of view! Which is that all exTWA employees were out to steal nAAtive Americans jobs! 😉 I guess he was expecting school buses of us driving down I 95 to do just that!!!

 

[scuba (John Linneman)]

As I posted in another thread, AA did not staple/screw you (I'm assumig you are an ex-TWA F/A), the APFA did. Again AA has absolutely NO control over the UNION'S seniority roster. If they did, don't you think the pilots and mechanics/ramp would also have been stapled?

Whoop's,... My mistake,...

Thanks for the correction,...

I was wrong, you're right,...

(I meant we got screwed while employed at A/A)

You're 100% right,... the APFA screwed us,.... not the company,... I agree,...

Our own union screwed us,...

And they are still screwing us by not fighting for unlimited recall rights,... as our union they should be fighting for us to get back to work,... they are not,...

They say it was 911 that caused us to get furloughed,... 911 was a special situation and allowing us to fall off the recall list makes us permanent victims of 911,..
in other words a victory for the terrorist.
It's shamefull,...

read my blog at

http://donotletterrorismwin.blogspot.com/

 

[aafsc]

<_< --- Thank you for the clarification AMFAMAN, but "facts" are something aafsc only uses only if they favor his point of view! Which is that all exTWA employees were out to steal nAAtive Americans jobs! 😉 I guess he was expecting school buses of us driving down I 95 to do just that!!!

So you are telling me that AA controls who goes where on the seniority lists.

As an addition to my previous post, AA did indeed side with the TWU during the arbitration (the TWU wanted a staple job just like the APFA). But AA's position was for it's own reasons. If the twaers got upset, they could have only affected STL and MCI operationally. If the nAAtives would have gotten screwed by the arbitration it could have affected operations in ORD,DFW,MIA,SJU,JFK,LAX,BOS,DCA,TUL, and AFW. But we all know how the arbitrator ruled. The twa problem was an extremely hot topic at that time.

And yes MCI, if the twaers would have been awarded 100% everywhere they would have used their extremely high TWA seniority to go anywhere in AA's system. Even with a 4/10 01 seniority date in MIA, we have had a lot of ex-twaers come down here. With 100%, it would have been an avalanche after STL was reduced by 70%. If you claim that the twaers would have never relocated to AA cities and bases, then why all the crying about not getting 100% system wide?

Whoop's,... My mistake,...

Thanks for the correction,...

I was wrong, you're right,...

(I meant we got screwed while employed at A/A)

You're 100% right,... the APFA screwed us,.... not the company,... I agree,...

Our own union screwed us,...

And they are still screwing us by not fighting for unlimited recall rights,... as our union they should be fighting for us to get back to work,... they are not,...

They say it was 911 that caused us to get furloughed,... 911 was a special situation and allowing us to fall off the recall list makes us permanent victims of 911,..
in other words a victory for the terrorist.
It's shamefull,...

read my blog at

http://donotletterrorismwin.blogspot.com/

Prior to the integration, legally, the APFA owed you no representation. The IAM was your legal representative. The APFA had a legal duty to protect it's members from the twaers; from the most senior APFA member to it's most junior. If the APFA would have given something to the twa F/As at the expense of even one of it's members it would have been a breach of duty of fair representation for which the APFA members could have rightfully sued APFA. The APFA is not the AFA. Was it wise for the IAM to waive your LLP's? I think that question will be debated for a long time to come.

 

[eolesen]

Our own union screwed us,...

Hmm.... Read your blog, John. Were you one of Carl's replacement workers hired during the 1986 IFFA strike? If so, I wouldn't do too much talking about being screwed by a union....

 

[TWskyliner]

Tensions are unusually and understandably high on our side of the tracks. I think our first people start falling off the recall list in less than four months...to top it off to see a post by a union rep (one of our union reps) counting the seconds till the last TWA'er falls off doesn't help.
It's only gonna get worse people, as more and more people fall off the list while APFA does nothing on our behalf.
And as far as the seniority issue....hardly anyone I know expected full seniority, it didnt have to be all or nothing, there could have been maybe just a small bone thrown our way by our union "brothers and sisters."
It's wishful thinking for those of you who would like this issue to go away.

 

[aafsc]

Tensions are unusually and understandably high on our side of the tracks. I think our first people start falling off the recall list in less than four months...to top it off to see a post by a union rep (one of our union reps) counting the seconds till the last TWA'er falls off doesn't help.
It's only gonna get worse people, as more and more people fall off the list while APFA does nothing on our behalf.
And as far as the seniority issue....hardly anyone I know expected full seniority, it didnt have to be all or nothing, there could have been maybe just a small bone thrown our way by our union "brothers and sisters."
It's wishful thinking for those of you who would like this issue to go away.

All the twaers were screaming "date of hire", I remember it well. To suggest that you would have been happy with "just a few bones thrown your way" is non-sense. you still would have been screaming "date of hire". For proof, just look at the ex-twa mechanics and ramp. They got binding arbitration which gave them 100% of their twa seniority in their two bases (MCI and STL). This is what they had before the transaction and this is what the arbitrator gave them after the transaction. But are they satisified with these "bones"? Absolutely not. They have filed numerous grievences and lawsuits seeking more. They want 100% of their twa seniority systemwide. They want to have more after the transaction than they had before it; all at the expense of the origional AA employees.

 

[TWskyliner]

All the twaers were screaming "date of hire", I remember it well. To suggest that you would have been happy with "just a few bones thrown your way" is non-sense. you still would have been screaming "date of hire". For proof, just look at the ex-twa mechanics and ramp. They got binding arbitration which gave them 100% of their twa seniority in their two bases (MCI and STL). This is what they had before the transaction and this is what the arbitrator gave them after the transaction. But are they satisified with these "bones"? Absolutely not. They have filed numerous grievences and lawsuits seeking more. They want 100% of their twa seniority systemwide. They want to have more after the transaction than they had before it; all at the expense of the origional AA employees.

"Non-sense?" you dont know me...I did'nt learn cutthroat until about 4 years ago. I can only speak for my self and most of the people that I know personally, and slotting would have been fair. And God bless our ramp and mechanic guys and gals for at least getting something.