TIME FOR CHANGE
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what you wouldnt do and what you get shoved up your arse are 2 different things
And management can do no wrong
APA Proposes Pay Restoration
- Thread starter WingNaPrayer
- Start date
what you wouldnt do and what you get shoved up your arse are 2 different things
And management can do no wrong
Given an incompetent union that failed to negotiate sufficient upside in exchange for the concessions, I'd remind myself that the 13th Amendment passed well over 100 years ago and that I was free to not go to work for the slave wages agreed to by the TWU. There's only about 145 million or so jobs in this great country that don't involve working for AMR or its subsidiaries.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
And which one of those airlines has never, ever, stiffed their creditors, walked away from their debts, and forced employees to take massive pay cuts?...
CAL. Twice bankrupt. Bethune can crow all he wants to about how they built up a great airline the third time around, but never forget it was done at the expense of a lot of peoples' careers during the 80's and 90's.
DAL. Freshly out of bankruptcy, where they took away pensions and also walked away from billions in debts that others incurred on their behalf. Pensions? Surely you jest...
UAL. Stiffed employees thru the ill-advised ESOP, stiffed them again by making their ESOP stock worthless when they declared bankrupcy, and stiffed them a third time by shredding their contracts. Pensions? That's what the ESOP was for. Oh, that's gone too?... Sorry. Sucks to be anyone except for Glenn Tilton and Joke Brace.
Clearly, I have no respect for how CAL, DAL, and UAL earned their profits. It may as well be stolen.
AMR, whatever you think about the management bonuses and how the TWA folks have been treated, actually earned a profit. It wasn't a by-product of a balance sheet colonic.
TIME FOR CHANGE
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TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
October 24, 2007
In response to the proposals submitted by the APA negotiation committee, American Airlines issued the following response:
"It will take some time to fully understand the impact of these requests, but at first glance it appears that these items would dramatically increase our pilot costs – making us even more uncompetitive and worsening our labor cost disadvantage. We cannot ignore the competitive realities of the marketplace and jeopardize our fragile recovery. As we’ve previously discussed with the APA, increases of the magnitude proposed would simply return us to the destructive cycle we have been trying to climb out of. Such a course serves no one well in the long run, including our pilots.
Many of the proposals presented by the APA are unprecedented in the passenger airline industry. In addition, they fail to include any mention of productivity. Any discussion regarding pay increases must be closely linked to discussions regarding increased productivity. As we’ve communicated to the APA, the company is open to exploring variable compensation programs that would provide additional income opportunities for pilots, but we need to look at the entire picture and productivity gains must be factored in as part of that equation so that we can achieve a competitive cost structure."
seems like AA wont give anything unless it involves getting something in return
I wonder what Aa management gave back :huh:
In response to the proposals submitted by the APA negotiation committee, American Airlines issued the following response:
"It will take some time to fully understand the impact of these requests, but at first glance it appears that these items would dramatically increase our pilot costs – making us even more uncompetitive and worsening our labor cost disadvantage. We cannot ignore the competitive realities of the marketplace and jeopardize our fragile recovery. As we’ve previously discussed with the APA, increases of the magnitude proposed would simply return us to the destructive cycle we have been trying to climb out of. Such a course serves no one well in the long run, including our pilots.
Many of the proposals presented by the APA are unprecedented in the passenger airline industry. In addition, they fail to include any mention of productivity. Any discussion regarding pay increases must be closely linked to discussions regarding increased productivity. As we’ve communicated to the APA, the company is open to exploring variable compensation programs that would provide additional income opportunities for pilots, but we need to look at the entire picture and productivity gains must be factored in as part of that equation so that we can achieve a competitive cost structure."
seems like AA wont give anything unless it involves getting something in return
I wonder what Aa management gave back :huh:
I believe he was advocating not working for AMR, which is a stellar idea.
Bagbelt
Senior
- Apr 3, 2004
- 454
- 6
I think AMR will give them just about anything to lift the eagle cap. I don't know the beakdown by age of the pilot group, however since its' been quite awhile since there has been robust hiring it may be that there are enough guys within 10-15 years of bailing and would vote on it. Since replacing an ageing fleet is a prime concern and RJ's seem an idea that has outlived it's usefullness, I think expanding eagle into mainline flying will be a chief goal. Paying a diminishing group big money would be an investment.
donttouchthebeauty
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- Jan 11, 2006
- 545
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Miss Thang, you need to wake up and smell the coffee... AMR stole from you with just the threat of BK, which is twice as bad as going in and taking it... Your Company screwed its people just as well, so don't let the facts get in your way.... It's clear that you are quite jealous of us Bankrupt carriers and how we are doing now, since the downtalk of how you wanted us all to just "be gone" kind of like all the TWA folks... Now what will you think if these BK carriers "hook up" and basically put you into the position you rag on everyone else about??? I would suggest you think about your posts, You evidently don't see whats coming for you... If there is any combo of NWA DAL CAL UAL AND US ..... You folks will be in some deep crap... We will have cost advantage over you hand over fist, as well as market share... I would not be riding the white horse and talking smack so much... You might become the headless horseman..
You have yet to produce anything close to reality. Nothing you have posted has anything to back it up. You are wrong nearly 100% of the time. Every time you get called on something you avoid the post or disappear until its quiet again.
operaations
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- Jul 31, 2003
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DTTB...you just cant stay away can you. Jealousy...envy...what is it. According to you Everything at UA is smelling like Roses. So why would you be so concerned with a Airline Doomed to fail in your opinion.Miss Thang, you need to wake up and smell the coffee... AMR stole from you with just the threat of BK, which is twice as bad as going in and taking it... Your Company screwed its people just as well, so don't let the facts get in your way.... It's clear that you are quite jealous of us Bankrupt carriers and how we are doing now, since the downtalk of how you wanted us all to just "be gone" kind of like all the TWA folks... Now what will you think if these BK carriers "hook up" and basically put you into the position you rag on everyone else about??? I would suggest you think about your posts, You evidently don't see whats coming for you... If there is any combo of NWA DAL CAL UAL AND US ..... You folks will be in some deep crap... We will have cost advantage over you hand over fist, as well as market share... I would not be riding the white horse and talking smack so much... You might become the headless horseman..
It is ok to be envious of an Airline that did not stiff its creditors. You can be jealous all you want....but do yourself a favor and admit it. Tell me how we are Jealous of Bankrupt carriers? What is there to be Jealous about? None of us wanted annyone from TWA to go away. But I could say with out a shadow of a doubt we would all like to see you go away. Good luck and finding your way in life when your CEO sells you to US that would be justice wouldnt it. Have fun DTTB and I know I will see you lurking on our side of the message board. Most Jealous people do
That's it! B)
Individual self-help, I call it. And THAT's not illegal.
Face it: if the threat of collective self-help hasn't gotten ya where ya want to be, time to cut losses and get on with life.
OP
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #27
You need to check yourself there. This 'airline' was geared up to stiff each and every one of their creditors, until the employees stepped in and paid the bill, to the tune of nearly 2B a year!
Had the employees not signed a blank check with their own paychecks held hostage, this 'airline' would still be stiffing their creditors today! Thanks to the employees, the creditors still get paid, the executives got paid to the tune of hundreds of millions with much more to come, and in fact, the only ones that aren't getting paid, are the employees.
Everyone gets huffy and all of the sudden a payment gets made to the pension fund and then y'all shut up again, never remembering that AA has stiffed the pension fund for over 2 billion dollars that they will most likely never pay. That means your retirement isn't all there!
There is absolutely nothing about AA for which to be envious on anyone's part. When contract negotiations get into full swing, you'll see the true colors of the scum that runs AMR. They want more concessions, and I think you know it.
Hmmm what happened to, "So I will do you AA Elitists a favor and quit busting your happy chops and leave you alone to your board"? Just more of your sputtering and inability to follow up?
Well since you have yet to use a fact is a fine thing to say that about someone who can 100% bckeverything he says with facts and figures.
Crandall started saying that long ago. We should not allow insolvent airlines to bring down the rest of an industry.
Eric and the rest of us see fine, its your inability to grasp reality, means you wont see whats coming long past its arrival.
No in fact those carrier will be in seep crap. They will be piling on debt and incomaptible work forces. They will need all the luck they can find.
Any deal to merge will incur large costs up front and savings will be small. AA will in fact benefit from any consolidation that drops ASM's in the sky far better than any merged carrier.We will have cost advantage over you hand over fist, as well as market share... I would not be riding the white horse and talking smack so much... You might become the headless horseman..
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
My primary job is doing quite well. I go to American to play with airplanes. I am where I want to be
donttouchthebeauty
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- Jan 11, 2006
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Seriously - a LARGE part of YOUR airline IS a BK airline that DID stiff its creditors!! THink TWA... THAT IS YOU - sweeite, you bought it, so it becomes you... You have alot to be jealous of, you just have a hard tome admitting it. I would LOVE it if my CEO sold us to US, because, I would gain 6 years of my seniority back and be combined with all my old school co-workers... Quite frankly your post is void, because your speaking with emotion, and not reality... Don't forget you are a BK carrier as well, and you didn't have to file b/c you gave it in concessions... So blind, oh so blind..........
