APA,APFA & TWU

[Birdman]

"We are awaiting an NMB request for our response and we will respond appropriately. In the meantime, we must stay focused on reaching consensual agreements that allow the company to restructure successfully," said American spokesman Bruce Hicks.

I don't think they care how they obtain their term sheet demands but any delays in financial relief will just prompt more aggressive court action. I'm wondering if the NMB was just waiting for this opportunity when they re-inserted themselves back into the mix, as BIG government by it's nature demands control.

 

[767 mechanic]

Yes, however no one knows what the final parameters of OH will be.

I am curious if they reduce the support shops, how will they disperse any non-licensed mechanics, as the company has had a recent history of requiring A&P's on the aircraft docks.

No one really knows what the 40% is going to be.

The 40% OSM rate is 40% of title 1,so therefore the rest of title 1 would not be totally AMTs. It would also include a/c cleaners,parts washers and others. This would meam that the ratio of amts in title 1 would go down.

 

[Birdman]

It would also include a/c cleaners,parts washers and others.

There are only 200 total cleaners and parts washers. Not much impact.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think you missed my point, Mr. Jim.

I did and thanks for clarifying it for me.

The one thing I might disagree with is an arbitrator's award being considered the company's last offer by the judge. That would probably be true if the award was the company's ask, but not necessarily true if the award was more than the company's ask. But I'm not a lawyer either. Of course, the NMB can't force the company to arbitrate in the first place and the judge would probably be seen as a sure thing by the company compared to an arbitrator.

Jim

 

[iluvaa]

Must have License to sign for work and sign logbook !Per FAA

wow you line guys are really smarter than us dumb O/H A&P's. But last time I checked you do B checks and could use mechanics helpers. Now you can go back on your high and mighty throne.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Must have License to sign for work and sign logbook !Per FAA

If that is truly the case, how is it that we in Tool & Die (when called to a hanger to do work a mechanic is paid to do) sign for our work?

I've signed many E58s and pattern cards over the years, as have many others in my shop, and hold only a driver's and amateur radio license.

 

[strikeforce]

wow you line guys are really smarter than us dumb O/H A&P's. But last time I checked you do B checks and could use mechanics helpers. Now you can go back on your high and mighty throne.

I suppose that one day AA will solicit the FAA to eliminate the license requirement to sign off logbooks. Nobody said your dumb. You just happen to work in a facility that is under attack from the MRO's. Clearly you understand the threat that TIMCO and AAR present to the AMT's at the bases, and soon on the line. WE need to decide as a profession whether we're going to diminish the profession by accepting lower wages for ALL, while preserving jobs or preserving and seeking higher wages for the remaining AMT's in lieu of outsourcing work. By electing to preserve jobs in lieu of wages benefits nobody because AA will continue to seek lower wages while promising to keep jobs ....and we know how truthful management's been on that end. We are DUMB for allowing the TWU and AA to do both.

 

[Buck]

Even at the current $33/hr...there are Line guys looking to move on. There's better and more rewarding jobs out there, believeit or not! It should send a message to ALL parties when 20 year mechanics are no longer interested in working for American Airlines. I happen to be one of them!

Buck, Line guys don't want you to take a pay cut.....the MRO's are forcing a wage cut onto to you because the alternative is NO PAY and NO JOB! The MRO's don't present a threat to Line guys, yet. But, when they do, I'm sure AA, UA & all the other carriers will look to shed thousands of Line jobs. We're not there yet!

I, along with my thousands of Line mechanic colleagues, tend to believe that your majority voting block is the heart of the problem on why WE are making the lowest wages in the industry. Maybe you should give the Line a shot at becoming majority and see what kind of Horsepower WE really have! You'll be surprised!

I am all for it. If you can figure a way to gain the majority or an equal voting share,(electoral college)then go for it. We both know the answer. Maybe it will take a revenue drop to the International to catch their attention.

 

[strikeforce]

If that is truly the case, how is it that we in Tool & Die (when called to a hanger to do work a mechanic is paid to do) sign for our work?

I've signed many E58s and pattern cards over the years, as have many others in my shop, and hold only a driver's and amateur radio license.

The A&P is required to sign the E6 logbook. How often do you sign the E6? Never, unless you have an A&P, right? The GPM also requires that a mechanic have an A145 Logbook qualification to sign the E6. Do you have that Frank? 100% of line mechanics have that qualification. On the line, when an aircraft has an 0909 check assigned to it, any other workcard accomplished as part of the BOW must be entered into the E6. Therefore, the person accomplishing these cards must have that logbook qualification.

 

[Buck]

They will do as they have in the past. Those guys will exercise their seniority and go work along side the A & P mechanics wiithout missing a beat.

Of course that is what the union will do. The goal should be to phase out the AMT's without license, not to cut their throats. Historically the TWU agreed to scaled work groups, why stop now. Instead of a flat 40%, it should be those that cannot or will not meet the FAA licensing requirement, could work in the shops at their contract book rates and force those with A&P's to the required license areas. If a A&P that has been working a support shop for 30 years and has no urge to retire then give them the option to go to the aircraft or retire. Of course no one, even the company knows what the requirements will be. Someone behind a desk has been given a task to meet and in the beginning the yields on the aircraft matter little. There is going to be a massive cost to the training of thousands of AMT's wherever they end up. As for A&P License requirement, the base can work under the company's certificate. Any A&P or Logbook items will have to be adhered to.

 

[TWU informer]

The A&P is required to sign the E6 logbook. How often do you sign the E6? Never, unless you have an A&P, right? The GPM also requires that a mechanic have an A145 Logbook qualification to sign the E6. Do you have that Frank? 100% of line mechanics have that qualification. On the line, when an aircraft has an 0909 check assigned to it, any other workcard accomplished as part of the BOW must be entered into the E6. Therefore, the person accomplishing these cards must have that logbook qualification.

And this makes you worth how much more than a Machinist, Welder, or Overhaul A&P?

 

[Buck]

And this makes you worth how much more than a Machinist, Welder, or Overhaul A&P?

Point of order. Base A&P's must sign the logbook for FMR's. There are not many but the requirement still stands. I am sure there will be enough A&P's to perform that work.

 

[strikeforce]

I am all for it. If you can figure a way to gain the majority or an equal voting share,(electoral college)then go for it. We both know the answer. Maybe it will take a revenue drop to the International to catch their attention.

yes, it will take a revenue drop in order to shift the majority block. It's happening right now with AA's intention to rif 3100 AMT's. The TWU is fighting hard as hell to stop this shift. They are pulling out all the stops in order to appease TUL. Just another jab at the OH/Line rift. Local 514 will also do whatever it takes to keep the majority. The Line is just sitting back and watching the demise of OH. Don't worry the TWU will not allow the majority to shift to line guys because they know damn well they're out if that happens. Therefore, you base guys are paying a heavy price in order to keep the majority. Good Job!

 

[Frank Szabo]

The A&P is required to sign the E6 logbook. How often do you sign the E6? Never, unless you have an A&P, right? The GPM also requires that a mechanic have an A145 Logbook qualification to sign the E6. Do you have that Frank? 100% of line mechanics have that qualification. On the line, when an aircraft has an 0909 check assigned to it, any other workcard accomplished as part of the BOW must be entered into the E6. Therefore, the person accomplishing these cards must have that logbook qualification.

I have no clue what an E6 is other than a Naval First Class Petty Officer.

I said nothing about signing logbooks - I only made reference to signing for my work on an E58 or pattern card. I have no suspicion re: what and A145 might be nor a 0909 check nor do I care.

I've no intent of starting or continuing a "My job is more better than yours"-type argument with you or anyone else. If I did, it would be a simple matter to talk about the virtues of multi-stage pierce, form, slide-form stages, coil feeds, coil slitters and feeds, rolling mills, scrap choppers, sliding cores, injection screws, ejector pins and other gadgets of my trade that make the parts for aircraft that get rivets pounded into them by aircraft mechanics.

I pointed out to Red that signing for work done is not exclusive territory to a certificate holder but does require a cert holder designated as an inspector to approve the work done by non-cert'd personnel.

We have much larger fish to fry than this now - arguing about relative value of one's job is not one of those things.

 

[Rogallo]

I have no clue.....

There's a lot of cluelessness running around!!!