Another School Massacre

[Deepthroat]

OH goody.

Never mind that Russia took 5 years to defeat Germany and lost 25-50 million people fighting the German army and you want to fight the most advanced US military force in history?

How's it working for those cave dwellers on horses called Taliban?
Seems like we got our butt handed to us many times in Iraq by a lessor armed force until we left in 2011.

 

[Ms Tree]

I do not use gun ownership as a standard of freedom. I use different metrics such as health, mortality and such.

No chit Cpt Obvious.

And yet they do not do it as much on other countries around the world. I guess we are more creative here in the US.

Good for you. What does that have to anything?

And I support your right to do that. How does regulating who has access to guns in any way infringe upon that right? Hows does making every person go through a back ground check to buy a weapon and have every weapon registered to an individual and having that individual liable for their gun in any way infringe upon that right.

 

[EastUS1]

Seems like we got our butt handed to us many times in Iraq by a lessor armed force until we left in 2011.

Not so. What's tragically killed thousands of our brave young people there, has been nothing more or less than being "politically correct" and "sensitive". The initial victory over Iraq in '91, when it then fielded the world's 4th largest military, as well as the campaign of '03, both resulted in arguably the most one-sided, military triumphs in contemporary or extended history. What killed so many after '03 was essentially the product of a "be nice" mentality, that prohibited forces from aggressive actions required for secure subjugation, and instead set them up as little more than targets for ied's and ambushes. Anyone ever needing to know who's responsible for such tragic and entirely pointless losses need look no farther than Washington DC.

 

[Ms Tree]

Go read up on the battle of Stalingrad and other eastern front battles and learn about how those battles were fought verses how the US was conducting it's self in Iraq.

WWII was fought with far different rules of engagement than the current conflicts and, big point here. The Taliban still lost. No military conflict is 100% effective. Even the Jewish resistance had a few successes against the Germans.

I still fail to see how this conversation has anything to do with what we are discussing.

 

[EastUS1]

Go read up on the battle of Stalingrad and other eastern front battles and learn about how those battles were fought verses how the US was conducting it's self in Iraq.

WWII was fought with far different rules of engagement than the current conflicts and, big point here. The Taliban still lost. No military conflict is 100% effective. Even the Jewish resistance had a few successes against the Germans.

Wow! Really!? You're right!...Gosh! I should "read up" on military history and methodology! Sigh!...Are you "for real"?

 

[Ms Tree]

<p>

Not so. What's tragically killed thousands of our brave young people there, has been nothing more or less than being "politically correct" and "sensitive". The initial victory over Iraq in '91, when it then fielded the world's 4th largest military, as well as the campaign of '03, both resulted in arguably the most one-sided, military triumphs in contemporary or extended history. What killed so many after '03 was essentially the product of a "be nice" mentality, that prohibited forces from aggressive actions required for secure subjugation, and instead set them up as little more than targets for ied's and ambushes. Anyone ever needing to know who's responsible for such tragic and entirely pointless losses need look no farther than Washington DC.

Lets see. Going into a country and leveling everything in sight is going to make a little more difficult to be viewed by the locals as 'liberators". Then there was the fact that in Gulf I we had a coalition that would have frowned upon the US going in an leveling the place. And then you have the problem of 'nation building' a place that you have just destroyed.

We knew we should not have been in there in the first place. We went on with no end game, no plan .. nothing. It was not a war, it was a land grab. In that context the loss of life was justified by the powers that be.

 

[Ms Tree]

Wow! Really!? You're right!...Gosh! I should "read up" on military history and methodology! Sigh!...Are you "for real"?

I was referring to Deep.

 

[EastUS1]

Lets see. Going into a country and leveling everything in sight is going to make a little more difficult to be viewed by the locals as 'liberators".

"...to be viewed by the locals as 'liberators"....? Yep...Yet another "politically correct" type.

"I do not use gun ownership as a standard of freedom...." Who cares? You're no one of the slightest consequence to be properly determining the degree of Freedom others, guaranteed by their Nation's very Constitution have been given and neither am I, for that matter. I took the Oath that included defending that Constitution and intend to uphold it as best I can.

 

[Ms Tree]

Never thought of Cheney as PC.

I stated my opinion. You were the one who set up the metric solely based on gun ownership. I said I do not agree with that. Goody for you.

 

[ContUNITEus]

".....and are still as free as anyone. "...? = That's wholesale BS that you've not the slightest material to back up in any debate. Name so much as ONE country that enjoys the same level of individal Rights as the USA? Hint: If you begin by noting those who's governments have disarmed them,...well...the point's already made, even if you're willfully oblivious to it.

I suppose that only in America do people associate the ownership of guns with freedom. Yes, that's how crazy people here are....

For your information.... this is not a free country.... Any country where the government (local as it may be) requires me to paint my house according to city regulations and their taste of color, going as far as having me submit to them the kind of paint that I am about to use for my house - is not a free country.

Any country that prevents me from building my house the way I want it, with the material that I want to use, and add to the house what I want to and when I want to - is not a free country.

THE USA IS NOT A FREE COUNTRY.... alone on those grounds.... and I could go on naming you reasons as to why your free country is not as free as you think it is, compared to even some undeveloped countries.

 

[Knotbuyinit]

DIY Drones with fire power.

 

[EastUS1]

I suppose that only in America do people associate the ownership of guns with freedom. Yes, that's how crazy people here are....

You need to get out more into this world of ours. Are ALL of the following people "crazy"...or are YOU?

England:

Canada:

 

[ContUNITEus]

Any country that does not provide free secondary education (college & university), as well as free healthcare, is not a free country.

 

[EastUS1]

I suppose that only in America do people associate the ownership of guns with freedom. Yes, that's how crazy people here are....

Per your following observation; we've no argument. "THE USA IS NOT A FREE COUNTRY.... alone on those grounds.... and I could go on naming you reasons as to why your free country is not as free as you think it is, ..."

I've seen more personal liberty eroded in my lifetime than anyone could have ever even dreamed of in times of my childhood. The once vaunted "American People" have increasingly acted the part of herded, pathetic little sheep that now tolerate such BS as police traffic "Checkpoints"...CHECKPOINTS! for the love of God!..just to CHECK if people are under the influence, or even for frikkin' wearing seat belts!...As if wearing seat belts is properly ANY of the government's damm business! Any person now even traveling by air's made a "suspect". The list of what's been lost in the way of sanity and respect for individual Rights staggers the imagination of even those of us who've seen this situation deteriorate for decades. In addition to reasonable notions towards self and loved ones' defense: My concern is that the last shreds of actual Freedom go out the window the moment any populace is rendered helpless against it's government.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

Australia:

 

[ContUNITEus]

You need to get out more into this world of ours:

OH PUHHHLEAZZZE

I probably have been to far more places (and have lived in far more diverse countries than you will ever).

Spare me this demonstration of Gun-Crazy people.... I know they exist everywhere, but they are a minority everywhere but the USA - otherwise, they wouldn't have had their guns taken away. FACT IS - that a majority of people, in the countries where guns were outlawed and taken away, supported such measures. You might as well show me a youtube video of neo-nazi's - as they exist in places where you would probably never have expected them to exist.

Again, you are equating FREEDOM with gun-freaks having the ability to own 30+ registered guns. Show me anything else that you can do here in America, that you can't do ANYWHERE else in this world - other than owning a gun.

For many people - FREEDOM has nothing to do with the ability to OWNING A GUN.