Another School Massacre

[delldude]

“We should all have guns, lots of them,” opined stylist Traciena Johannsen as she painted highlights on the hair of a client who spoke up from beneath the tent of foil on her head to say she has two guns. In fact, she shot a wild turkey with one of them last week.
Guns have put Nucla in the national Second Amendment spotlight since the Nucla Town Board on May 8 passed the first — and only — municipal ordinance in Colorado requiring heads of households to have guns, and ammunition, “in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the town and its inhabitants.”
 

 
http://bearingarms.com/colorado-town-becomes-first-state-mandate-gun-ownership/

 

[delldude]

The goal of legalizing alcohol was to eliminate the black market and to regulate it. A lot of people were dying or getting I'll due to poor quality. Had nothing to do with stopping drinking. That was the intent of prohibition. Your analogy sounds cute but falls flat.

Legalizing pot is mainly money issue. Look at CO'S tax receipts. Not aware of anyone of authority saying it would stop drug use. It's also going to whittle away at the black market.

 
Bull
 

 
The increase of the illegal production and sale of liquor (known as “bootlegging”), the proliferation of speakeasies (illegal drinking spots) and the accompanying rise in gang violence and other crimes led to waning support for Prohibition by the end of the 1920s. In early 1933, Congress adopted a resolution proposing a 21st Amendment to the Constitution that would repeal the 18th.

 

 

The high price of bootleg liquor meant that the nation’s working class and poor were far more restricted during Prohibition than middle or upper class Americans. Even as costs for law enforcement, jails and prisons spiraled upward, support for Prohibition was waning by the end of the 1920s. In addition, fundamentalist and nativist forces had gained more control over the temperance movement, alienating its more moderate members.
With the country mired in the Great Depression by 1932, creating jobs and revenue by legalizing the liquor industry had an undeniable appeal. Democrat Franklin D. Roosevelt ran for president that year on a platform calling for Prohibition’s appeal, and easily won victory over the incumbent President Herbert Hoover. FDR’s victory meant the end for Prohibition, and in February 1933 Congress adopted a resolution proposing a 21st Amendment to the Constitution that would repeal the 18th. The amendment was submitted to the states, and in December 1933 Utah provided the 36th and final necessary vote for ratification. Though a few states continued to prohibit alcohol after Prohibition’s end, all had abandoned the ban by 1966.

 
Temperance was a dem movement through the KKK.

 

[delldude]

 

Shooting at Seattle Pacific University Leaves Multiple Injured; One Person in Custody

 
 
Thank God no one was armed...they could have killed the perp.

 

[ChockJockey]

 
 
Thank God no one was armed...they could have killed the perp.

 
Do you open or concealed carry every time you leave your residence? Most of the time?

 

[delldude]

 

[ChockJockey]

 
That's fine.  It just seems to me that there's a lot of people that claim that having armed civilians nearby could stop short these kinds of massacres and yet few of them actually carry themselves.  Even in AZ (where I live) where the gun laws are very loose and carriage is basically unrestricted nobody armed was near enough to stop Loughner when he shot Giffords in the parking lot of a Tucson supermarket; he was brought down with a folding chair.
 
In order for firearms to be an effective solution for these kinds of incidents it seems to me that you'd actually need to have a lot more people carrying a lot more consistently.  Plenty of people willing to talk about that but few doing it themselves.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Ponder this:
 
When AL re instituted the chain gang crime, property crime dropped 40%. Sadly the inmates won a discrimination lawsuit as there were no female chain gangs.
 
The mere idea that they might have a spot on a chain gang themselves was enough to lower crime rates. You're NOT going to deter those on psychotropic drugs from mass murdering in most cases. However "Open Carry" creates enough doubt in most peoples minds as to whether they'll be the victim instead of their intended target.

 

[ChockJockey]

You're NOT going to deter those on psychotropic drugs from mass murdering in most cases. However "Open Carry" creates enough doubt in most peoples minds as to whether they'll be the victim instead of their intended target.

 
I don't catch your meaning with the second sentence, but for open carry to be effective you have to have enough people carrying openly and not just talking about other people carrying openly.  Do you open carry every time you go out?

 

[Ms Tree]

I don't have the story but the shooting at a Christian school was stopped by a kid with pepper spray.

 

[SparrowHawk]

 
I don't catch your meaning with the second sentence, but for open carry to be effective you have to have enough people carrying openly and not just talking about other people carrying openly.  Do you open carry every time you go out?

 
 
Think of "open Carry" as the Big Dog on the front porch. Does he bite? Who wants to find out?
 
Your point is however well taken in that how much deterrent is open carry? you get a few news reports where armed citizens thwart an attack and we'll know the answer I think. Open Carry is not a panacea nor is it a Pandora's Box. It's a tool to be used on criminals.
 
I happen to think "Castle Doctrine" more then open carry as a more effective method of deterrence. States where a Life Sentence (of which there are but 4) is a life sentence unless pardoned by the Governor in combination with Castle Doctrine are very effective IMO. We have to continue to try new things because gun control clearly isn't working..

 

[Dog Wonder]

 
We have to continue to try new things because gun control clearly isn't working..

Neither is lack of gun control.

 

[delldude]

I don't have the story but the shooting at a Christian school was stopped by a kid with pepper spray.

 
Same story.

 

[ChockJockey]

Think of "open Carry" as the Big Dog on the front porch. Does he bite? Who wants to find out?
 
Your point is however well taken in that how much deterrent is open carry? you get a few news reports where armed citizens thwart an attack and we'll know the answer I think. Open Carry is not a panacea nor is it a Pandora's Box. It's a tool to be used on criminals.
 
I happen to think "Castle Doctrine" more then open carry as a more effective method of deterrence. States where a Life Sentence (of which there are but 4) is a life sentence unless pardoned by the Governor in combination with Castle Doctrine are very effective IMO. We have to continue to try new things because gun control clearly isn't working..

As far as mass shootings go, I don't think deterrance in the form of open carry or harsher punishments have as much of an effect as they might in more typical crimes since these massacres seem to be usually well-planned for periods beforehand and the perpetrators either expect to die in the attack or are otherwise unconcerned with what happens to them afterwards. Some planned on thwarting or targeting first-responders/law enforcement first or creating diversions for them.

Again as far as these incidences go I don't think tighter gun control will do anything but maybe give people a false sense of security, or (Democratic) politicians a chance to say they 'took action to address the issue'. Even if you were to ban and confiscate all guns, which is impossible, there's nothing to stop someone from using a vehicle or even knives (as in recent incidents in China) to inflict mass casualties.

At this point I think the best we can do is train/educate/inform people of the dangers, how to be alert, and what to do in case of such an attack. Some schools and businesses are already doing this but there needs to be a societal awareness and not the complacency that comes with assuming it's just a problem for the politicians and police.

 

[EastUS1]

As far as mass shootings go, I don't think deterrance in the form of open carry or harsher punishments have as much of an effect as they might in more typical crimes since these massacres seem to be usually well-planned for periods beforehand and the perpetrators either expect to die in the attack or are otherwise unconcerned with what happens to them afterwards. Some planned on thwarting or targeting first-responders/law enforcement first or creating diversions for them.

Again as far as these incidences go I don't think tighter gun control will do anything but maybe give people a false sense of security, or (Democratic) politicians a chance to say they 'took action to address the issue'. Even if you were to ban and confiscate all guns, which is impossible, there's nothing to stop someone from using a vehicle or even knives (as in recent incidents in China) to inflict mass casualties.

At this point I think the best we can do is train/educate/inform people of the dangers, how to be alert, and what to do in case of such an attack. Some schools and businesses are already doing this but there needs to be a societal awareness and not the complacency that comes with assuming it's just a problem for the politicians and police.

 
Well said, and fully agreed with here CJ, most especially with that last sentence.

 

[EastUS1]

.... but there needs to be a societal awareness and not the complacency that comes with assuming it's just a problem for the politicians and police.

 
 
Addendum: The very most truly dangerous thing any even remotely Free people can EVER do, individually or as a society, is surrender all notions of personal responsibility.