AMP....What a joke!

[strikeforce]

First, I'm not employed by AMR or any of its subsidiaries.

But I have read posts from the disenchanted on this site and its predecessors for more than 10 years. Sign another substandard contract with concessions or wait to get a decent contract? Retro takes care of the latter alternative but nothing cures the problems if you choose the former alternative.

What's the rush?

What's the rush? how about 8 years of givebacks, while AA execs taking bonuses. $140K in lost wages; 8 weeks of vacation givebacks, o.t., sick time @ half pay; lost 40 holidays since 2003 @ 2.5 pay + 40 holidays @ 1.0 pay. How much more do you expect me to give back? Have you endured this type of pulp fiction, grab your ankles type treatment? I don't think so! All along calling ourselves union brothers. Jimmy Hoffa is fuming in his grave. Oh, and by the way, it was a TWU union brother (not Jim Little) that proposed the sick time @ half pay. You think that happens with the Teamsters? Pal, you don't have a clue as to what the mechanics have endured since 2003.

 

[AANOTOK]

Yeah, that'll fix it. Not.

Those claiming it is the mediators fault must believe that he has superhero power over the two parties involved in negotiation, and outside the sessions, their hands are tied.

Fact is that nothing stops the two sides from continuing to talk except their unwillingness to do so without the mediator there.

AA say's Fleet has a T/A, won't negotiate. Union say's no T/A, willing to continue negotiations. Mediator pouts and throws union in the corner and say's "No negotiations for you, go sit down". No E, don't believe he has "superhero power", but his job is to get the two sides together and see if they can get things worked out. If not, then release them. Someone is paying him to do something!

 

[strikeforce]

Yeah, that'll fix it. Not.

Those claiming it is the mediators fault must believe that he has superhero power over the two parties involved in negotiation, and outside the sessions, their hands are tied.

Fact is that nothing stops the two sides from continuing to talk except their unwillingness to do so without the mediator there.

what incentive does AA have to sit and hammer out a T/A? It's not costing them a dime for stalling. The ball is in the union's hand to do something to bring AA to the table. TWU is too passive. That's the problem!

 

[odie01]

AA say's Fleet has a T/A, won't negotiate. Union say's no T/A, willing to continue negotiations. Mediator pouts and throws union in the corner and say's "No negotiations for you, go sit down". No E, don't believe he has "superhero power", but his job is to get the two sides together and see if they can get things worked out. If not, then release them. Someone is paying him to do something!

Just out of curiosity, what is the con census about the twu from Fleet Service? Have you guys looked into other options outside the AFL-CIO?

 

[aapitbull]

AMP depends on guys like you and I that care about the future and understands what has happened in the past. If your willing to give AMP a chance, why don't you educate the ones that have given up on their careers, and let them know that their is an option. The way I look at it, I would rather stay under the existing contract than give up AMT slots, retirement, ect, ect. The only thing we can do right now, to show the company and twu that we are not happy, is to sign an AMP card, and bring this to a vote

Sorry

 

[aapitbull]

<_< ----- Pit, I have no quarrel with you! I know "both" Unions screwed us! In fact I was at one of your AMFA information meetings here at MCI when the our Local Committee bust in trying to intimidate those who attended!------ But fact of the matter is, that after all these years people that bring up old wounds, are not helpful with todays problems! As for Gorden, I realize what he is, a what he was doing!------- Question!?------- What did the TWU have to give the IAM to convince them to back off?

While I have no proof the number commonly refered to by those in the know was around 2 million to walk away from there dues base, by the way this was reportedly the bases of the fight in Philly between the IAM and Twu supporters when US & AW where merging in the case of AA &TWA the larger of the 2 unions took the spoils well in US & AW the IAM was the larger yet the TWU attempted to solicit cards in Philly so they could have enough to vote I believe some folks where sent to the hospital amd some to jail in that case, don't know if they ever got their jobs back.

For the record have no quarrel with you or any other ex TWA guy either my point is that mistakes where made on both sides and I am tired of the blame game we should still be looking for a solution to end this once and for all.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Thanks for the info. Pit! I kinda suspected something like that was going on at the time.------- Damn! I'm glad to be out from under all that!!!---------- Worst thing I have to worry about now is if I'm getting to much sun, or keeping my beer cold, whole I'm down in the Caribbean! Life is too short to worry about the past! ------ Keep up the good work Pit! I hope things work out for you and those still working for AA, but "if you don't learn from the past",------ you know the rest of it!!

 

[lineguy43]

How did that work out for you?

And who were the former IAM on the three person NMB?

And if they had dealing with the IAM they would have to recluse themselves from a vote.

Well aside from having to start over at a new employer it worked out quite well for me thank you make more now than I ever did. The members have changed since 1999 I am sure, but I know for sure that the IAM had significant influence on the NMB at that time but all the protest did was drag out AMFA being certified by a year it was ruled that there was not enough evidence of election interference. Like I said the IAM had home field advantage and still lost. Then when it was apparent that NW was hell bent on busting AMFA the IAM actively sought out to do our work...Yeah thats a union for you NOT! I swore to this day I will never work for any company that has the IAM on the property as a bargaining agent for my class and craft.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

what incentive does AA have to sit and hammer out a T/A? It's not costing them a dime for stalling. The ball is in the union's hand to do something to bring AA to the table. TWU is too passive. That's the problem!

That really depends if there is a retro clause in the new contract or not. If so, AA will be paying any raises back to the date the last contract expired, so that could cost them plenty.

Also any productivity gains from work rule changes clearly won't be retro, so not having a deal in place costs the company in that sense, too.

Bottom line is that getting a deal done would benefit both sides, and stalling benefits no one.

 

[MCI transplant]

That really depends if there is a retro clause in the new contract or not. If so, AA will be paying any raises back to the date the last contract expired, so that could cost them plenty.

Also any productivity gains from work rule changes clearly won't be retro, so not having a deal in place costs the company in that sense, too.

Bottom line is that getting a deal done would benefit both sides, and stalling benefits no one.

<_< ------- I believe I'm pretty safe in saying I don't expect there will be a "retro" clause in any T/A the "TWU" brings back to the membership for a vote!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

<_< ------- I believe I'm pretty safe in saying I don't expect there will be a "retro" clause in any T/A the "TWU" brings back to the membership for a vote!

Then that t/a will be shot down again! The twu had better realize that the concessions THEY accepted were for five years ONLY! We are now into year number EIGHT! The negotiators and international representatives had better be saying the words "FULL RETRO BACK TO '08!".

It is bad enough the company lied to us during the 5 years of "shAAred sAAcrifice" but worse if we allow them to get 3 more years on top of it for free.

The company knew what it was doing stalling for three years. I for one will make them pay for not dealing fairly by voting NO. Anyone who doesn't feel they deserve full retro might as well cut their legs off... it will make living on your knees easier.

 

[frontline]

Well I don't really see how it's stalling when it was good old TWU who insisted having a government mediator present at all negotiations!! So now we are stuck on his schedule. There is plenty of blame to share on this particular topic...

 

[MCI transplant]

Well I don't really see how it's stalling when it was good old TWU who insisted having a government mediator present at all negotiations!! So now we are stuck on his schedule. There is plenty of blame to share on this particular topic...

<_< ------- Or is it another example of the TWU in AA's back pocket? :huh:

 

[Mr Red]

<_< ------- I believe I'm pretty safe in saying I don't expect there will be a "retro" clause in any T/A the "TWU" brings back to the membership for a vote!

If their is not full retro the TWU will be evicted from the property !!there time is running OUT !!!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Hey Red, talk is cheap!------- When "push comes to shove," let's see what happens! :unsure: