AMFA......read on

[WeAAsles]

From what I understand, I believe they have enough cards on the AA side.  Pretty sure they are working diligently with the US guys.  Also pretty sure it will come down to the US guys to get this done now.  The guys that were holding out for one more chance from the IAM and they get them the bottom contract of the industry.   Hopefully enough from US really do want change.  It would be very exciting to sit back and watch an election at the new AA with AMFA on the ballot.  You guys think the TWU/IAM kool-aid drinkers are out, just wait if and when the announcement comes that AMFA is on the ballot, like little termites, they will then come out of the wood works.  Still also hoping that the NMB will in fact bring a vote to the membership for this alliance rather AMFA is on it or not, at least it will be the memberships decision if they want the alliance or not.  At least this way there should also be an option to "write-in" AMFA on the ballot, and this is why the TWU/IAM is trying it's hardest to get it thru the NMB without a vote----700 has indicated this (in so many words) in the past then he clammed up and would not speak about it any longer.  And although he will deny the new Alliance has had closed door meetings with the NMB over this vote issue, he also admitted this in one of his postings awhile back.  They are vigorously trying to push this alliance thru without any vote from the membership as they are scared to death of one or 2 things happening;  1-  Afraid of the "write-in" option that should be available if the NMB conducts the election, and may still be an option if the union conducts the election.  2-  Afraid if AMFA gets enough cards in to be put on the ballot after the time frame that will offered by the NMB if they are conducting this election for the alliance.
    Forgive me for forgetting, but when was it that the alliance filed for the SCS?  What date was it?  Didn't it take 6 weeks to get back to the other unions after they filed?   Hopefully all this can be done before the holidays start rolling up, we all know how votes go when during a time period that alot of members will be off.  Good luck to you and all Travis.  Rather AMFA is on the ballot or not I will still hope you guys at least get to vote on it. If not, however, it will make the card drive pick up even stronger.  Put it this way, let's say alliance is allowed to go thru with out a vote, as long as AMFA gets the correct amount of sigs from the US side then they can still file for a representational election at AA between the alliance and AMFA thru the NMB processes.  Any time after Aug 20th AMFA can refile with the NMB, with no interference from the ibt this time around...

Swamt I think you are forgetting to mention the fear of the "No Union" option more so than the fear of AMFA? Although I really don't believe our people are that stupid, Delta proved to me that plenty of people out there are.

 

[swamt]

Swamt I think you are forgetting to mention the fear of the "No Union" option more so than the fear of AMFA? Although I really don't believe our people are that stupid, Delta proved to me that plenty of people out there are.

I agree with you.  The non-union will not happen if AMFA is on the ballot or the "write-in" option is available.  If no AMFA on ballot, and no "write-in" option is available then the entire membership should be worried about a possible non-union vote.  I would agree that your people are not stupid, what they are is sick and tired enough to vote non-union, and yes this too does scare the livin daylights out of the alliance as well.  The two unions know what is at stake and they are scared to death of the possible outcomes after the last many years of representation that these guys are sick and tired of.  Just like a drug addict,  when you hit the bottom is when you know you are tired of being sick and tired, and it is time for change.  What that change is for the mechanics group as well as others at the new AA will be, hopefully, entirely up to the membership.  I cannot see the NMB allowing this alliance to go thru without a membership vote, however, I have seen way too many gimmicks played in the past by both the TWU and the IAM to just take it with a grain of salt.    Me personally?  If I had to deal with the decades of concessions, give backs, closed cities, maint facilities shut down, relocations, etc..  I too would be very willing to go non-union.  They would do better non-union than what the TWU and IAM have been agreeing to for the last several years upon years.  Look, I have no active part of this up coming fiascoe that the AA'ers and US'ers will have to deal with, however, daily I talk to X-AA'ers, X-US'ers as well as current mechanics of both airlines and they are in fact sick and tired of being run down year after year for the last 3 decades at AA and who know how many years at US.  
 
Now if the only two choices on the ballot are alliance or non-union I would check the non-union.  WHY?  You ask.  Because nobody will force my hand into something I never wanted period.  For a union or alliance to try and force the membership into the alliance by first of all no say so what so ever about the alliance being formed and then (in the beginning) saying there will only be the option of alliance (that nobody wants) and non-union then I would check the non-union.  I am telling you, these folks are sick and tired of all the games being played by the unions and the company themselves.  Hey, look over at the AE (Envoy) Pilots, they are sick and tired too, and if a vote (for the industry is required) then so be it.  Think about it, the NWA mechanics did it for the majority of the membership as well as for the industry, the Envoy pilots vote was for the industry as well as themselves, the AA mechanics will be voting on the very same principle when the vote for the alliance comes up, if it even does come up.   The TWU and the IAM are the ones to be completely blamed for what is about to come.  They were the ones to blame for the concessions at AA and US, they are the ones to blame for the card drive from the teamsters at US and the card drive (grass roots) from AMFA at AA.  If both unions were doing what the membership wanted them to do then there would be no card drives right???   The two unions have forced the membership to act upon what the current union has been doing at both carriers.  If AMFA was at either AA or US then the membership would have replaced every single International Officer, as well as the Local Officers, and all the nego committee.  With AMFA you can do that and not have to worry about replacing the entire union of representation, which, as you know is very hard to do at a carrier of that size.  Sorry for rambling on, but, needed to say it.  Take care and good luck, you guys are gonna need it...

 

[1AA]

You will not see NO UNION as the only other option. The Alliance fears that scenario as well. They are looking for a sign off on the Alliance without any kind of vote. Will they get it? Not likely but deals have been made under the table in the past.

 

[swamt]

I know, and I agree.  I am hoping for a vote no matter what...

 

[southwind]

Swamt I think you are forgetting to mention the fear of the "No Union" option more so than the fear of AMFA? Although I really don't believe our people are that stupid, Delta proved to me that plenty of people out there are.

So, your saying being represented by a sh!tty union, is better than no union..........got it!

 

[Rogallo]

I agree with you. 
I would agree that your people are not stupid

 
I disagree.
 
stu·pid
: not intelligent : having or showing a lack of ability to learn and understand things
: not sensible or logical

 

[WeAAsles]

So, your saying being represented by a sh!tty union, is better than no union..........got it!

You are completely and solidly anti union. You will say anything and everything to see people in our airlines vote no union so it takes the pressure off yourself over at Delta. You have an agenda that is personal for you. You consider ALL unions to be shi!tty and I would suspect AMFA would be on your list as well even if you want to pander to the readers on this thread.

I wish the mechanics well in whatever they want as long as they ultimately stay organized and protect their CBA and the rights that come along with that.

 

[IAM Member Here]

I just posted a update sent to me and others from the AA/USAir AMFA organizing committee.
 
Here it is again.
 
 
[SIZE=11.5pt]AMFA Update[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.5pt]We have been getting a lot of questions about where we are with the drive at this point, and as most of you know the original plan was for us to collect enough cards to file for an election by the end of August.  This intent was to file against the TWU and leave US Airways out of it, to which we were on pace to have enough cards to do just that. Unfortunately in May 2014, the gate agents at AA and US Airways filed for and received a single carrier determination from the NMB.  At that point, we could no longer file simply against the TWU because all they would have to do is ask for a single carrier filing due to the determination in the gate agent case.  This would most likely result in a single carrier ruling, in which AMFA would not have enough cards to get a vote due to the lack of US Airways cards.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11.5pt]Since the end of May, we have been collecting cards at US Airways, and I am happy to report that it is going well.  We recruited many of the former IBT organizers, and many others who simply support the idea of a craft union like AMFA.  In addition, we have met at least 8 former NWA mechanics that have joined our ranks and are currently pushing for Amfa at US Airways.  Our goal is to collect enough cards from the combined groups to file by the time the TWU/IAM Association attempts their vote, which we estimate to happen sometime towards the end of September to mid-October.  With your help we can reach this goal.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11.5pt]It is important to understand where we are today, now that the TWU/IAM filed for a single carrier ruling on August 6.  It typically takes the NMB 4 to 6 weeks to make a single carrier determination, and on that day, a 30 day clock will start for the TWU/IAM association to get a ruling granting them the association without a vote, or for the NMB to set a date for a vote.  The interesting point here is how does the association get on the ballot?  As you know, the TWU will be on any ballot based on them being the largest union on the property, and the IAM would be given credit for their 4400 members.  This would mean that the IAM would need to sign additional TWU members to reach 35% requirement to be on the ballot.  AMFA would have to sign 50% plus one of the combined workforces to get on the ballot as an intervener. The TWU wants the NMB to simply place the TWU/IAM association on the ballot without being an incumbent or submitting cards for a show of interest.  We do not believe that this is fair and will oppose the association on this point.  If the association is not placed on the ballot, and the IAM does not have sufficient cards, the IAM would lose their right to represent their members at the end of the 30 days by a failure to show interest.  If they set a vote, we would have to submit our cards by the end of the 30 days to be on the ballot.  However if we are unable to reach sufficient cards by then, there will be a spot on any NMB sanctioned ballot for "other" and all one would have to do is check the box next to "other" and write AMFA and your vote will be counted for AMFA.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11.5pt]We have well over 5500 email addresses on file and will keep you informed as to what needs to be done as the situation progresses.  We would ask that you share this info with fellow employees, and if you have a question you can contact us at our website [/SIZE]www.amfa-aa.com[SIZE=11.5pt] or call Don Rodgers 918-906-7112 with any questions. I would end by reminding everyone that none of our cards expire until mid-January 2015.  We do not know what the NMB will rule, so the best thing to do is keep pushing for cards because every card puts us one step closer to removing the TWU from power.  With every signed card we also receive an email address, which allows us to speak directly to more people when we either run a "write-in," or "on the ballot," campaign for an election.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11.5pt]As Always Thanks for your Support![/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.5pt]Your AMFA Organizing Committee US/AA[/SIZE]

Cutting through the BS.  What the gate agents did had absolutely nothing to do with the mechanics or any other craft.  The NMB 'single carrier' determinations are stand alone craft determinations.  The timeframe given by AMFA about 'typical' nmb timelines should not be trusted.  AMFA should learn from filing late last time. Again, I'm calling BS on AMFA part.   As far as the AMFA arguing against the TWU wanting to have "The Association" replace it on the ballot without one single card being signed.....more AMFA BS.  It's going to happen and AMFA can't do anything about it.    So, why the BS?  and how do you unpack the BS?
 
The reality is that AMFA's argument, while weak, will necessarily drag out any NMB determination and extend its card collection drive. IMO, prolly another 30 days can be tacked on and AMFA will either put up the cards by around November or run an organized write in campaign. IMO, they will put up the cards whether they have enough or not.  Throw in further delays until around mid January [NMB holiday schedule plus a review of sufficient interest].
 
The fact that the AMFA chose this approach, other than filing for LAA only, highly suggest that it wasn't going to get enough cards at LAA.  Otherwise it would have locked this down. Again, the gate agent determination has nothing to do with the craft AMFA seeks and wouldn't have come into play. Cases abound.  
 
IMO, history will repeat itself on the property. Probably 25%-30% of all mechanics will vote for AMFA, so the Association will win.  There is a strong minority but that's all it ever seems to be on this property.  The IAM doesn't seem to be taking that as gospel though since I heard that the IAM filed for automatic recognition for the Association, and not to have a vote.  So, if that's the case, then the IAM is taking things alot more serious this time to make sure AMFA isn't allowed one vote.  While that path is interesting, and who knows,  the majority of those cases lean towards a vote....but not necessarily.  The company would also have to automatically recognize and IMO it will if it comes down to that.   All reasonable people knows that management doesn't want AMFA on the property.  Management is comfortable with the TWU/IAM. 
 
AMFA could be the odd man out once again, and rightfully so with the normal and consistent minority.  I suppose AMFA could put it in court but imo that would just be for more show.  For some reason, a lot of BS comes out of AMFA and its organizing committee must think that the mechanics are truly ignorant on NMB casework.  If AMFA is ever going to expand, then I don't think it is likely when it associates BS with most of its statements. 
 
My bias and support is slanted towards the Association but I have nothing against AMFA if that's who the mechanics want.

 

[1AA]

You need to start talking to the guys on the floor at USAir and AA. A different story than what your painting. BTW you sound a bit like 700UW. He has been quiet for a while with his pro IAM posts and then out of no where you show up picking up where he left off. 
Welcome aboard, have fun.

 

[IAM Member Here]

You need to start talking to the guys on the floor at USAir and AA. A different story than what your painting. BTW you sound a bit like 700UW. He has been quiet for a while with his pro IAM posts and then out of no where you show up picking up where he left off. 
Welcome aboard, have fun.

If AMFA doesn't have enough cards, which it doesn't, then I don't have to talk to the guys on the floor.  Maybe the guys on the floor are shaking yes to amfa, but they aren't signing a significant amount of cards and never have.
I'm not anti AMFA, I find it interesting that the mechanics have allowed the TWU to abuse them so long.  And the USair mechanics are way too fearful since many of them still think that somehow they will lose their IAMPF they have accrued.  Can't blame the IAM for exploiting the majority of mechanics who rent their brain out to them.  During any election, all the IAM has to do is say that management won't fund the IAMPF [even though it's contractual], and most mechanics will vote for the Association, even though the pension is a contractual obligation. As I said, a bunch of mechanics will be voting who will make sure they are more informed over their fantasy football waivers than the scandalous IAMPF.
 
I don't take any logos so I'm not convinced that the IAM is any better than any other union, but in this case, I think it makes sense that USair mechanics vote for the association since the seniority rules are clearly known.  If AMFA comes in, then it's all up for grabs, regardless of what AMFA says. Not that the IAM has done much of anything for USair mechanics, but at least I think it has been a tweak better than how awful the TWU has been for LAA mechanics.  And that's the AMFA problem,  since the TWU has been dreadful and pitiful for several years, why would a LAA finally vote for AMFA if they liked taking it up the ass from the TWU for so long?  It's fairly obvious that they like taking it up the ass.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

IAM Member Here, based on your last two posts I suggest you read up on the rules covering mergers and STS determinations at the NMB website as well as reading up on SLI under McCaskill/Bond. 
 
You seem to have based your opinion on a few inaccuracies ... for example:
 

 
I don't take any logos so I'm not convinced that the IAM is any better than any other union, but in this case, I think it makes sense that USair mechanics vote for the association since the seniority rules are clearly known.  If AMFA comes in, then it's all up for grabs, regardless of what AMFA says.

 
Seniority Integration in Airline Mergers by law falls under the McCaskill/Bond Amendment. AMFA would be bound to it just as the Alliance is.
 
Seniority under AMFA is not "up for grabs"

 

[mike33]

You need to start talking to the guys on the floor at USAir and AA. A different story than what your painting. BTW you sound a bit like 700UW. He has been quiet for a while with his pro IAM posts and then out of no where you show up picking up where he left off. 
Welcome aboard, have fun.

BOTTOM LINE is you don't have enough cards......how long does it take to get enough?...not that long if you are diligent. If so many are upset you should have had enough by now. AA outnumbers US. if you don't have the AA numbers then ur a boat w/o a rudder...Happy sailing captain

 

[mike33]

IAM Member Here, based on your last two posts I suggest you read up on the rules covering mergers and STS determinations at the NMB website as well as reading up on SLI under McCaskill/Bond. 
 
You seem to have based your opinion on a few inaccuracies ... for example:
 
 
Seniority Integration in Airline Mergers by law falls under the McCaskill/Bond Amendment. AMFA would be bound to it just as the Alliance is.
 
Seniority under AMFA is not "up for grabs"

You forgot that they would only if it was disputed.......MBA would not come into play if the association agreed to the same seniority system.

 

[700UW]

If you arent in the IAM anymore, the IAMNPF will not accept any money from US on behalf of its former members.
 
Its the IAMNPF, not the AMFANPF, now is it?

 

[WeAAsles]

If you arent in the IAM anymore, the IAMNPF will not accept any money from US on behalf of its former members.
 
Its the IAMNPF, not the AMFANPF, now is it?

This does make common sense. If you are no longer with the collective bargaining agent why would they accept or be required to accept money from people they no longer represent? Same would apply to paying dues. You would no longer be required to pay dues to the IAM correct?

The question people would need to ask is what would happen to the money that the company was formerly required to contribute to the IAMPF?