AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Rather have it negotiated under AMFA rather than the dysfunctional association that promised us a representation election and lied to us. The association has to negotiate concessions for all groups. I'd rather let AMFA take care of us and let the association take care of the other groups that always seem to control title 1 and 2.

And that is fine. I am just saying don't expect AMFA to be a magic bullet. Have realistic expectations.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Just like a good trumptard, call the person a name.

That's not calling someone a name that is making an observation. If you were not so damn dumb you would know the difference.

If you choose to believe hearsay and folks conjectures then I would say. The functioning of your brain might be in question.

Why would I care about a fool's opinion?

There is a contract... Stop softening up people's resolve by talking about concessions. Your a company man if thats what your doing, even though you do it unwittingly.

Nobody is trying to soften anyone's resolve. However people need to take a good long hard look at the REALITY of the situation. We are in a pandemic, travel is low, and the company is losing money every day. Concessions are coming. That is as sure as death and taxes. Sticking your head in the sand will not make that REALITY go away. The best you can do is try to negotiate a snap back clause to protect your future interest. No UNION despite how well they represent their base can protect against market forces.

Follow the agreement, shrink the airline, close stations, park airplanes, lay people off. THAT is the correct way. Follow the freaking contract.

How many companies do you think have shrunk themselves to profitability? That tactic rarely works.

If, this association try's to to save jobs (dues) through mid contract concessions......... they deserve to get thrown out on their collective asses.

We both know the company will get concessions. If not through the UNION then through the courts. If the airline goes bust labor might be the ones getting thrown out on their COLLECTIVE asses. That means you dumb dumb (there NOW I called you a name).

To clarify, don't collective bargain your collective asses right out of a job. Recognize your in a bad situation and some flexibility is in order. I am not saying let the company walk all over you. I am saying you need to understand they have to make money to stay in business and meet their financial obligations (including payroll).

 

[1AA]

And that is fine. I am just saying don't expect AMFA to be a magic bullet. Have realistic expectations.

I never expected a magic bullet unless having a fair representational election by the memberships will to choose a union is the magic bullet.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I never expected a magic bullet unless having a fair representational election by the memberships will to choose a union is the magic bullet.

It might be.

 

[1AA]

Let the bashing begin. The Association is patting themselves on the back. I say lets vote on representation. After all the Association promised us a vote that never happened so let's keep them to their word and vote for representation.

 

[swamt]

And that is fine. I am just saying don't expect AMFA to be a magic bullet. Have realistic expectations.

I don't think they think AMFA is the magic bullet. They just want a class and craft union to represent them thru these times so they can have transparency during the meetings and nego's instead of kept in the dark and bam, here ya guys go "we did the best we could do" and "they can do that brother."
I mean look at AMFA at SWA and Alaska, they too are facing the concessions ask at this very moment, and they too are staring at a possible furlough and layoffs coming thru-out this industry. The differences are, how AMFA will handle it, how transparent and informed they will be, and, it will be the members that decide on what route to take not some over paid international officers that will not get the same cuts as the membership will.
You said it best at the end, "have realistic expectations".
I am wondering if AA and United will be able to avoid the concessions ask as they have already laid off thousands upon thousands, whereas SWA has not involuntarily removed anyone as of yet, and say they will not if they can get some agreement for the concessions and in writing that they will not be furloughed thru 2021.
Here's the latest at SWA with new 7,000 Warn letters have now gone out yesterday to the rest of the groups at SWA...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/southwest-airlines-preparing-furlough-nearly-224852040.html

 

[Paul Too]

Let the bashing begin. The Association is patting themselves on the back. I say lets vote on representation. After all the Association promised us a vote that never happened so let's keep them to their word and vote for representation.

So True! The Pilots and Flight Attendant unions would never allow a cluster like this to happen! We need to rid ourselves of the Association! The choices should be : AMFA, IAM, or TWU.......We choose one and eliminate Association! Should be a relatively easy decision for most!

 

[swamt]

Let the bashing begin. The Association is patting themselves on the back. I say lets vote on representation. After all the Association promised us a vote that never happened so let's keep them to their word and vote for representation.

All I could do is laugh. Did you read where YOU the members got what they wanted? The ONLY reason they had a large number for the contract to pass was directly tied to the pandemic we are still in. If this pandemic did not come in Feb. of 19 that contract more than likely would not have passed. People voted for it, otherwise they would still be without a contract. They bragged about getting the largest gains in history when in reality they didn't even get back what they lost in the BK contract, pretty sad to brag about that huh? About the only thing I could of agreed with was the fact that you guys do do more "in-house" maint than we do, but, that was not AMFA nego these limits, these were limits and outsourcing that was nego by the IAM and teamsters and AMFA inherited their language plain and simple. Let us also not forget it was under the teamsters language that allowed SWA to outsource out of the US in both Canada and El Salvador cases. AMFA did get the Canadian outsourcing back in house as well as doubled our heavy maint lines in Dallas, Houston and Phoenix and brought in C checks and more Hangar Ron work overnighters shop work etc...
AMFA is currently working with the company to bring in more work during these ongoing nego's on way s to save money for the company and they have already brought in more work for our maint folks.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I don't think they think AMFA is the magic bullet. They just want a class and craft union to represent them thru these times so they can have transparency during the meetings and nego's instead of kept in the dark and bam, here ya guys go "we did the best we could do" and "they can do that brother."
I mean look at AMFA at SWA and Alaska, they too are facing the concessions ask at this very moment, and they too are staring at a possible furlough and layoffs coming thru-out this industry. The differences are, how AMFA will handle it, how transparent and informed they will be, and, it will be the members that decide on what route to take not some over paid international officers that will not get the same cuts as the membership will.
You said it best at the end, "have realistic expectations".
I am wondering if AA and United will be able to avoid the concessions ask as they have already laid off thousands upon thousands, whereas SWA has not involuntarily removed anyone as of yet, and say they will not if they can get some agreement for the concessions and in writing that they will not be furloughed thru 2021.
Here's the latest at SWA with new 7,000 Warn letters have now gone out yesterday to the rest of the groups at SWA...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/southwest-airlines-preparing-furlough-nearly-224852040.html

I will tell you the same thing I told the other guy, shrinking to profitability rarely works. Many companies try it but only a very small percentage benefit from that tactic, most go bust. Shrinking to profitability is usually an act of desperation by a dying company. Crack a paper open. You see it all the time in the business section. Sears is a good example.

Also I would not compare AA and United with SWA. They operate very differently and serve very different markets. AA and United have a varied fleet and cater to the business traveler. Southwest has one type of aircraft (unless something has changed since my day) and caters to the cattle car crowd. There is also the issue of American Airlines having a lot larger workforce than Southwest. I know American at least, if not United, does a lot of maintenance in house. I am betting Southwest most likely contracts most of it out to a low cost MRO. Last but not least American Airlines had a focus on international travel specifically to Asia and Europe. They have mostly lost that business. Southwest was not as vested in international travel so were not nearly as impacted by closures due to the pandemic.

That being said Airlines always seem to be peak and valley and once the first world is mostly vaccinated you are going to see a tidal wave of a peak. Concession ARE coming. Nothing is going to stop that. The best think you can do is pressure your UNION to push a snap back clause for when the tide hits to make sure you are lifted up with it.

Look man I don't want AA to go bust. First off and most obviously my wife works there. Second AA is a major employer in Tulsa. Third I really do believe American Airlines gives people a good opportunity to earn a living wage for people with little or no education. Offering full benefits for part time work make it an excellent job for students. Just because American Airlines was not a good fit for me does not mean it is not a good employer or job.

Believe it or not I am very happy to have American Airlines in my life.I am thankful my wife has a good paying job. I am thankful TULE is such an economic boom to our city. American Airlines has been a part of my family for three generations. It is my hope it will be there providing others opportunities for three more.

You all need to put your loathing of management aside and realize that outside of the Golden Parachute Brigade we are all in this together. Even former employees with a pension married to current employees. 😀

 

[swamt]

I will tell you the same thing I told the other guy, shrinking to profitability rarely works. Many companies try it but only a very small percentage benefit from that tactic, most go bust. Shrinking to profitability is usually an act of desperation by a dying company. Crack a paper open. You see it all the time in the business section. Sears is a good example.

Also I would not compare AA and United with SWA. They operate very differently and serve very different markets. AA and United have a varied fleet and cater to the business traveler. Southwest has one type of aircraft (unless something has changed since my day) and caters to the cattle car crowd. There is also the issue of American Airlines having a lot larger workforce than Southwest. I know American at least, if not United, does a lot of maintenance in house. I am betting Southwest most likely contracts most of it out to a low cost MRO. Last but not least American Airlines had a focus on international travel specifically to Asia and Europe. They have mostly lost that business. Southwest was not as vested in international travel so were not nearly as impacted by closures due to the pandemic.

That being said Airlines always seem to be peak and valley and once the first world is mostly vaccinated you are going to see a tidal wave of a peak. Concession ARE coming. Nothing is going to stop that. The best think you can do is pressure your UNION to push a snap back clause for when the tide hits to make sure you are lifted up with it.

Look man I don't want AA to go bust. First off and most obviously my wife works there. Second AA is a major employer in Tulsa. Third I really do believe American Airlines gives people a good opportunity to earn a living wage for people with little or no education. Offering full benefits for part time work make it an excellent job for students. Just because American Airlines was not a good fit for me does not mean it is not a good employer or job.

Believe it or not I am very happy to have American Airlines in my life.I am thankful my wife has a good paying job. I am thankful TULE is such an economic boom to our city. American Airlines has been a part of my family for three generations. It is my hope it will be there providing others opportunities for three more.

You all need to put your loathing of management aside and realize that outside of the Golden Parachute Brigade we are all in this together. Even former employees with a pension married to current employees. 😀

I can assure you IF my union were to even consider agreeing with a reduced amount of pay they would have a snap back clause added and a firm method to return to current pay and all raises missed out on when the economy and flying get back. For now most of the unions are balking at any concessions agreements, not to say there won't be any, but I can assure if there were an agreement AMFA would NOT agree to anything without some kinda snap back clause installed. What is alarming is the TWU and IAM has never nego any snapback language when they have agreed to past concessions at AA, Us Air, or United for the past several decades and therefore allowed the company to get by with keeping their employees in the concessionary contracts for years upon years past the time needed all the while laughing all the way to and away from the bank.
Snapback clauses are mandatory or the company gets nothing in concessions by means of an agreement. I really cannot fathom how many times those industrial unions have agreed to big time concessions with companies and never once even thought about snapback clauses all the while the other union represented groups such as the Pilots and F/A's di dget them, now that is just pathetic representation, period.

 

[swamt]

So still no word from the NMB?
I assume they are still waiting for the company to respond with the eligibility and sigs samples lists. Last time it took them less than 4 hours to get their list and sig samples to the NMB, now they are 5 days late, Geez, what gives??

 

[Paul Too]

So still no word from the NMB?
I assume they are still waiting for the company to respond with the eligibility and sigs samples lists. Last time it took them less than 4 hours to get their list and sig samples to the NMB, now they are 5 days late, Geez, what gives??

I think you answered your own question swamt! This is an honest drive and request for new union representation.....an election at a minimum. The "RIG" isn't in!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I can assure you IF my union were to even consider agreeing with a reduced amount of pay they would have a snap back clause added and a firm method to return to current pay and all raises missed out on when the economy and flying get back. For now most of the unions are balking at any concessions agreements, not to say there won't be any, but I can assure if there were an agreement AMFA would NOT agree to anything without some kinda snap back clause installed. What is alarming is the TWU and IAM has never nego any snapback language when they have agreed to past concessions at AA, Us Air, or United for the past several decades and therefore allowed the company to get by with keeping their employees in the concessionary contracts for years upon years past the time needed all the while laughing all the way to and away from the bank.
Snapback clauses are mandatory or the company gets nothing in concessions by means of an agreement. I really cannot fathom how many times those industrial unions have agreed to big time concessions with companies and never once even thought about snapback clauses all the while the other union represented groups such as the Pilots and F/A's di dget them, now that is just pathetic representation, period.

I am happy to hear it.

Why are you telling me tell them. Other than encouraging my wife to vote for AMFA there is little that can be accomplished by telling me.

Good sale wrong customer.

 

[1AA]

My reliable source has mentioned that AA has submitted a list and or a total number of eligible voters to the NMB. Based on those nunbers we have plenty of cards filed. I don't have those numbers because I didn't ask for them. They are or will be available in due time as the NMB will conduct their investigation on the filing. I'm sure the Association will have their numbers much higher than what the company and or the in house organizers at AA have filed.
So in the meantime sit back and enjoy the Christmas season with your family and friends.

 

[swamt]

I am happy to hear it.

Why are you telling me tell them. Other than encouraging my wife to vote for AMFA there is little that can be accomplished by telling me.

Good sale wrong customer.

I am telling you because you told me to get my union to get a snapback clause if concessions would get considered. I answered you back by telling you that my union is already smart enough to do just that. It was and has been the TWU/IAM and now this combined asso that has been doing concession agreements WITHOUT any kind of snapback clauses attached.
I would not encourage your wife to vote for AMFA, but I would encourage her to simply vote and have a say so.
Not selling nothing to you, you have no say so in the representation at AA, so why would I?