AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[Old Azz Mechanic]

NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20572



42 NMB No. 20

CASE NOs. R-7422; R-7423 and R-7424 (FILE NO. CR-7131) FINDINGS UPON INVESTIGATION- DETERMINATION OF CERTIFICATION

May 19, 2015

http://www.amfa-aa.com/pdf/42_NMB_No20.pdf

CONCLUSION:

The Board finds that the TWU/IAM Mechanics Association is the certified representative of the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class at the New American and that certification hereinafter will be referred to as the certification in NMB Case No. R-7422.

TWU’s certification in NMB Case No. R-6872
AND ARE EXTINGUISHED
IAM’s Certification in NMB Case No. R-4593


Extinguishment is the destruction of a right or contract.

WHAT PART OF THE TWU AND IAM WERE DECERTIFIED DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

STOP HANGING ONTO SOMETHING THAT NO LONGER EXIST? WE ARE GOING TO FILE THE CARDS WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT.
What is

SIGN AN AMFA CARD


VOTE FOR AMFA.

Open Letter to IAM from Member Larry Ocheltree

AMFA is the only viable choice based on track record, expertise and accessibility.

This letter is to ask all my IAM colleagues to not be taken in by the outright lies that are being spread to scare you into voting for this train wreck called the TWU/IAM Mechanics Association.

For background, when our unions were merged in response to the AA/U.S. Air merger, membership had no say in whether we wanted this partnership. We were forced to accept it with the assumption being that 30,000 employees could force the company to concede into a better contract. Since the signing of the agreement, we’ve learned how the company got the best of the Association with combined rules that are outrageous. These rules apply to topics such as job loss, seniority, the Javits list, losing bumping rights and overtime. Simply put, the list is getting bigger every day.

While it’s true we temporarily benefited from the Association when our pay was increased to match TWU’s, the company has since closed maintenance stations while opening Fleet Service stations. I am happy Fleet Service has new stations opening, but was it necessary to once again strip away more jobs from Mechanic and Related employees to promote another craft and class? For several decades, it has been the industrial union position that our jobs were not lost but have remained in the union under Fleet Service, bringing in dues revenue. I’ve heard throughout the system from all groups that regardless of how you feel about IAM or TWU, the Association between them is not working and needs to change.

IAM is not an option without decertifying the current Association agreement, and the same goes for TWU. Even though the Teamsters are not a member of the AFL-CIO, they have an agreement to not petition for representation with our group, and they have already burned their bridges with the AA group and would never be certified.

AMFA is the only viable choice based on track record, expertise and accessibility. The industrial unions have been very successful in painting a bleak picture of AMFA but most of what has been said is untrue, unfounded and simply a scare tactic designed to protect their substandard representation. The facts are that AMFA has a track record of being a very professional union that specializes in representing only the Mechanic and Related workgroups. They treat all the functions within Mechanic and Related with equal importance, so if you’re in the automotive, facilities, cabin cleaners, training, sim tech planners, moc, line, heavy, you can expect your grievances to be aggressively addressed and your contract enforced. AMFA is the only union committed to transparency during negotiations, transparency that would have prevented the tradeoff of our benefits to other groups, which we see happening now. Another important AMFA difference is that if an issue comes up without a contract change submitted, the members are able to have a shop specialist go to the negotiations to bring the issue to the table to be addressed. Currently we have nothing like this, and we are doing the same old thing I have seen for 35 years, while the companies use modern negotiating tactics to crush us.

We need to take back control of our careers and not be bullied into accepting what our union decides we are to have. We need one union uniting our power, not two fighting each other instead of management. We need to stop working for the Association and have AMFA work for us.

Thank you,
Larry Ocheltree
Aircraft Mechanic — American Airlines

t
Why do you guys always fail to mention what happened to AMFA at NWA and United Airlines. Yet you vote with the same people that did this to you. It kills me that you guys support the same party that screws you. You cant fix Stupid

 

[1AA]

So this is how you perceive the IAM pension? A waste? Isn't this one of the inconsistencies y'all cite when saying the IAM AMT's made out better off? And y'all think that AA, during a pandemic, is going to listen to AMFA when they demand the same 401% to IAM mechanics whose pension contributions will full stop if your raid succeeds? Boy this is spreading like wildfire! You need to fire the welder handling your PR!View attachment 15561

Here we go with the raid angle again. Oh brother.

 

[1AA]

t
Why do you guys always fail to mention what happened to AMFA at NWA and United Airlines. Yet you vote with the same people that did this to you. It kills me that you guys support the same party that screws you. You cant fix Stupid

Why don't you inform us the facts and details of what actually happened at NWA. We all know. Many years ago and rookies like you keep bringing it up. What happened to the TWU at PanAm?
What happened to the IAM at Eastern, United and TWA?
If you want to go back before you were born tell me about Hughes Airwest and Ozark. How about Southern and Northeast airlines.

 

[swamt]

Open Letter to IAM from Member Larry Ocheltree

AMFA is the only viable choice based on track record, expertise and accessibility.

This letter is to ask all my IAM colleagues to not be taken in by the outright lies that are being spread to scare you into voting for this train wreck called the TWU/IAM Mechanics Association.

For background, when our unions were merged in response to the AA/U.S. Air merger, membership had no say in whether we wanted this partnership. We were forced to accept it with the assumption being that 30,000 employees could force the company to concede into a better contract. Since the signing of the agreement, we’ve learned how the company got the best of the Association with combined rules that are outrageous. These rules apply to topics such as job loss, seniority, the Javits list, losing bumping rights and overtime. Simply put, the list is getting bigger every day.

While it’s true we temporarily benefited from the Association when our pay was increased to match TWU’s, the company has since closed maintenance stations while opening Fleet Service stations. I am happy Fleet Service has new stations opening, but was it necessary to once again strip away more jobs from Mechanic and Related employees to promote another craft and class? For several decades, it has been the industrial union position that our jobs were not lost but have remained in the union under Fleet Service, bringing in dues revenue. I’ve heard throughout the system from all groups that regardless of how you feel about IAM or TWU, the Association between them is not working and needs to change.

IAM is not an option without decertifying the current Association agreement, and the same goes for TWU. Even though the Teamsters are not a member of the AFL-CIO, they have an agreement to not petition for representation with our group, and they have already burned their bridges with the AA group and would never be certified.

AMFA is the only viable choice based on track record, expertise and accessibility. The industrial unions have been very successful in painting a bleak picture of AMFA but most of what has been said is untrue, unfounded and simply a scare tactic designed to protect their substandard representation. The facts are that AMFA has a track record of being a very professional union that specializes in representing only the Mechanic and Related workgroups. They treat all the functions within Mechanic and Related with equal importance, so if you’re in the automotive, facilities, cabin cleaners, training, sim tech planners, moc, line, heavy, you can expect your grievances to be aggressively addressed and your contract enforced. AMFA is the only union committed to transparency during negotiations, transparency that would have prevented the tradeoff of our benefits to other groups, which we see happening now. Another important AMFA difference is that if an issue comes up without a contract change submitted, the members are able to have a shop specialist go to the negotiations to bring the issue to the table to be addressed. Currently we have nothing like this, and we are doing the same old thing I have seen for 35 years, while the companies use modern negotiating tactics to crush us.

We need to take back control of our careers and not be bullied into accepting what our union decides we are to have. We need one union uniting our power, not two fighting each other instead of management. We need to stop working for the Association and have AMFA work for us.

Thank you,
Larry Ocheltree
Aircraft Mechanic — American Airlines

The above sentence bolded by me as well as pasted below in bold as my post will address this issue directly:

Another important AMFA difference is that if an issue comes up without a contract change submitted, the members are able to have a shop specialist go to the negotiations to bring the issue to the table to be addressed. Currently we have nothing like this, and we are doing the same old thing I have seen for 35 years, while the companies use modern negotiating tactics to crush us.

Thanks to Larry for pointing this very important issue out during live contract nego's. and thanks to AIM for posting Larry's open letter.

That is a huge difference you guys. I personally witnessed this happening in our recent contract that took 6.5 years to get. A shop specialist/representative did get a hold of two of our nego's at the table to remind them of 2 certain letters of agreement that would have sunsetted if not renegotiated into new contract. These two letters of agreement were protections for several shop positions and several mechanic jobs on days, eves as well as graves in all kinds of different locations as well as certain inspection and heavy structures positions and jobs. The company was angling at getting rid of the entire eves shift in one shop, inspectors positions in three different shops, and the entire 4th line of heavy maint, as well as even more positions and jobs. These are all premium positions that would take 20-30 years to get into and the trickle down effect would have been a huge disruption to many folks with lower seniority, not to mention the lost of super high seniority positions and jobs cut. 100's of people would have been affected. By bringing this to the nego's attention, and yes, literally while they were at the table nego., we were able to get the nego cmte to get more and better LOA's installed before they all sunsetted. These LOA's also cover a minimum headcount for all these shops and positions as well, which greatly saved a bunch of positions on this years annual bids as well as this up coming years annual bids (2021).
Yes you can do this with AMFA representation. And although a shop representative brought it to the attention of the nego's at the table, this item was brought up by our members that are assigned to these shops that would have been decimated without these very important LOA's.

AIM, this is all documented by our nego's with their notes and back and forth passes between the co. and AMFA. And the company quietly pulled it back off the table again and the members of said shops and positions were able to bring those items once again back to the table and reinstated prior to having an AIP-TA-New Contract.
A fantastic tool needed and used while represented by AMFA where the membership really does control the nego's issues and items at the table for the mechanic and related.

AIM, hope this is useful for info as you guys work so hard for the final push...

AMFA@AA2020!!!

 

[swamt]

Why don't you inform us the facts and details of what actually happened at NWA. We all know. Many years ago and rookies like you keep bringing it up. What happened to the TWU at PanAm?
What happened to the IAM at Eastern, United and TWA?
If you want to go back before you were born tell me about Hughes Airwest and Ozark. How about Southern and Northeast airlines.

It's all he's got. They always go all the way back to the NWA time, and now this guy is plugging in UAL, really? LOL!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

t
Why do you guys always fail to mention what happened to AMFA at NWA and United Airlines. Yet you vote with the same people that did this to you. It kills me that you guys support the same party that screws you. You cant fix Stupid

OAM;

Here is what I remember as to what happened at NWA & UAL.

NWA contract proposal was to contract out a large percentage of the work thus eliminating many jobs, membership took a VOTE, went on strike and Lost. NWA had the Pilots, F/A, and the IAM Ramp/fleet cross the picket line so the strike failed.

At UAL they opened up the facility in Indy, then decided to close that facility, the IBT went around to all the workers promising to get UAL to re-open it and get the jobs back, got enough cards to get a vote and AMFA was voted out and all the promise by the IBT Never happened.
At UAL they have tried to bring another Union is several times since, but it has FAILED. Ask the IBT why the UPS IBT M&R and the UAL IBT are NOT one?

Eastern took a VOTE to strike and every union on the property honored the line and even walked. The union for the M&R was IAM at the time, strong and with the backing of the AFLCIO. That strike lead to the downfall of EASTERN. Chase, Rockerfella, Hersch, wanted out of the airline BIZ so the brought in Lorenzo to do what he did best at that time destroy and syphon money off.

Continental was IAM, but went into BK multiple times, and the employees got hurt each time, they were IAM as well. 4X

PanAM was TWU what happened to them? 3X

Northeast got taken over by Delta.

Piedmont, Allegheny and others got gobbled up by USAir.

The Local for the IBT here in MIA DOES NOT Have ONE officer that is part of the ATD there. LOOK that up as well its in Miami Springs.

The times really dictate what happens, airlines in the 70's & 80's came and went it was just the times. Deregulation and everything else played a part.

What happened at NWA or any other place is All in the past and bringing up OLD stuff isn't going to change or HELP anything. Watch the movie the RED TAIL if you want to know about what happened at NWA. A lot of people have discussed most of that stuff over and over again. Each time stuff was brought up UNLESS you were a part of what happened it is all BS on the floor.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

t
Why do you guys always fail to mention what happened to AMFA at NWA and United Airlines. Yet you vote with the same people that did this to you. It kills me that you guys support the same party that screws you. You cant fix Stupid

Which party as you say anyone VOTES for is a personal choice. As far as being stupid that is something you should know all about since the membership of the TWU here at AA for the most part has been kept STUPID by its leadership. Never taught what Unionism really is. Solidarity is a word they throw around but the IGM still runs rampant throughout the TWU. YOU may be correct about fixing STUPID, we all will see if we get a vote. Just make sure you do your part and participate in the voting since 170 + guys in MIA did not vote for the past contract. I don't know what % voted on this contract. Don't know or just Don't care enough to find out. The membership here need someone to tell them what to do. SHEEP, they let the few officers here in MIA feed them BS and never question most of the info supplied. LAZY more so than STUPID.

 

[Old Azz Mechanic]

Why don't you inform us the facts and details of what actually happened at NWA. We all know. Many years ago and rookies like you keep bringing it up. What happened to the TWU at PanAm?
What happened to the IAM at Eastern, United and TWA?
If you want to go back before you were born tell me about Hughes Airwest and Ozark. How about Southern and Northeast airlines.

You said a lot to avoid telling how AMFA fail the NWA and United Airlines Mechanic. I guess that is because you cant. The same people that you all vote and support was the ones that screwed you guys until that ran you off the property and replaced you with scabs. Then you had your members go back to work and have to stand next to the scabs that took there jobs. United ran you off because you talked a good game, but you could not produce. AMFA and TWU/IAM all have the same thing in common. Its a business. that wants to make money. Union no longer have balls. You can thank Regan for that. Hey he also was a republican too. If you was old enough or took the time to study history. You would know all of this.

 

[Old Azz Mechanic]

Which party as you say anyone VOTES for is a personal choice. As far as being stupid that is something you should know all about since the membership of the TWU here at AA for the most part has been kept STUPID by its leadership. Never taught what Unionism really is. Solidarity is a word they throw around but the IGM still runs rampant throughout the TWU. YOU may be correct about fixing STUPID, we all will see if we get a vote. Just make sure you do your part and participate in the voting since 170 + guys in MIA did not vote for the past contract. I don't know what % voted on this contract. Don't know or just Don't care enough to find out. The membership here need someone to tell them what to do. SHEEP, they let the few officers here in MIA feed them BS and never question most of the info supplied. LAZY more so than STUPID.

I cant believe you are retired and still give a crap. Why don't you change your personality and see if you can find happiness and go enjoy the rest of your life. YOU DONT WORK FOR AA ANYMORE. let it go. What happens dont concern you anymore.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I cant believe you are retired and still give a crap. Why don't you change your personality and see if you can find happiness and go enjoy the rest of your life. YOU DONT WORK FOR AA ANYMORE. let it go. What happens dont concern you anymore.

OAM; It is true that I NO Longer work at AA, But I have been working on bringing AMFA to AA for 21yrs, and I got this started again late last yr and we the main organizers are so close to bringing the cards to the NMB, so until that Happens I am going to help in any way I can. After the cards are turned in and a vote is going to happen then I will have accomplished what I help start. I will at that point have nothing to say or do it will be on all of YOU, to decide to keep the ASSociation or TWU, or for you to Vote in AMFA. Who is voted into office and how the Local in MIA is run will be on the M&R employees of All the SE. regions stations.

Just because you don't give a crap as you put it, what I do with my free time is my choice. There is a Month left for this all to happen or NOT. Then I will wash my hands of it all. So then you can be happy. I will NO longer have anything to do with you or the TWU. Whatever decision is made the results of that choice will be on YOU.

YOU are correct it is not my concern, it will not affect me in any way. I just try to finish what I start, and not just walk away I am NOT that way and never have been.
Many of you AA'ers have said Oh you'll change you will say IGM and fall into the scamming ways, I Never did. Like you said many hated me for that, but I don't care, I learned a long time ago at Eastern what being in a Union meant. You I assume are a Blue blood TWU/AA'er and know nothing about standing up for the guy next to you no matter what. So you can criticize me all you want.

 

[1AA]

You said a lot to avoid telling how AMFA fail the NWA and United Airlines Mechanic. I guess that is because you cant. The same people that you all vote and support was the ones that screwed you guys until that ran you off the property and replaced you with scabs. Then you had your members go back to work and have to stand next to the scabs that took there jobs. United ran you off because you talked a good game, but you could not produce. AMFA and TWU/IAM all have the same thing in common. Its a business. that wants to make money. Union no longer have balls. You can thank Regan for that. Hey he also was a republican too. If you was old enough or took the time to study history. You would know all of this.

Nice deflect Biden. I know more than you think. Your ignorance is rising to levels beyond comprehension. Your a lost cause. No reason to continue. I have better things to do. Go ahead and keep posting. A good laugh is needed once in a while.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

OAM; It is true that I NO Longer work at AA, But I have been working on bringing AMFA to AA for 21yrs, and I got this started again late last yr and we the main organizers are so close to bringing the cards to the NMB, so until that Happens I am going to help in any way I can. After the cards are turned in and a vote is going to happen then I will have accomplished what I help start. I will at that point have nothing to say or do it will be on all of YOU, to decide to keep the ASSociation or TWU, or for you to Vote in AMFA. Who is voted into office and how the Local in MIA is run will be on the M&R employees of All the SE. regions stations.

Just because you don't give a crap as you put it, what I do with my free time is my choice. There is a Month left for this all to happen or NOT. Then I will wash my hands of it all. So then you can be happy. I will NO longer have anything to do with you or the TWU. Whatever decision is made the results of that choice will be on YOU.

YOU are correct it is not my concern, it will not affect me in any way. I just try to finish what I start, and not just walk away I am NOT that way and never have been.
Many of you AA'ers have said Oh you'll change you will say IGM and fall into the scamming ways, I Never did. Like you said many hated me for that, but I don't care, I learned a long time ago at Eastern what being in a Union meant. You I assume are a Blue blood TWU/AA'er and know nothing about standing up for the guy next to you no matter what. So you can criticize me all you want.

AMFA you don't have to answer to that piece of sh*t.

The guy is nothing more than a troublemaker spreading lies and misinformation.

Don't let his stupidity distract you.

 

[Buck]

This not about the IAM and TWU, these two entities no longer exist except under the umbrella of the Association.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

This not about the IAM and TWU, these two entities no longer exist except under the umbrella of the Association.

BUCK

You are 100% correct even though the TWU & IAM at AA are no longer the Bargaining units separately for us the ASSociation is the TWU is or seems to be the only one putting out videos and letters in an attempt to squash the AMFA drive here at AA. Being the larger of the two groups here on the property, GP and Samuelson not so much anyone from the IAM are the two main driving forces against our bid for a change.

The IAM's big threat is the language that they ( IAM ) had the ASSociation put into our current contract about losing the medical by change of representation. When the IBT tried the IAM threatened their pension. The actions by these two unions just shows us further that the only thing they care about is the dues they collect from the membership.

Lets hope that within the next month our cards get accepted by the NMB and a we get a VOTE to have the TWU/IAM as you put it NO LONGER EXIST.

 

[JimmyBop]

So the fact that the IAM mechanics will go 4 years without their current pension contribution and no way to get AA to up the match to the TWU side of the 401k is a good reason for them to sign an AMFA card? Isn't part of the reason for this raid to screw the IAM guys because they got more than the TWU?

BUCK

You are 100% correct even though the TWU & IAM at AA are no longer the Bargaining units separately for us the ASSociation is the TWU is or seems to be the only one putting out videos and letters in an attempt to squash the AMFA drive here at AA. Being the larger of the two groups here on the property, GP and Samuelson not so much anyone from the IAM are the two main driving forces against our bid for a change.

The IAM's big threat is the language that they ( IAM ) had the ASSociation put into our current contract about losing the medical by change of representation. When the IBT tried the IAM threatened their pension. The actions by these two unions just shows us further that the only thing they care about is the dues they collect from the membership.

Lets hope that within the next month our cards get accepted by the NMB and a we get a VOTE to have the TWU/IAM as you put it NO LONGER EXIST.