AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[swamt]

Sorry don't see your reply.. what happens to the guy at a protected station that gets bumped from a unprotected station, ( simple question? )
Does the station absorb them or does a guy from the protected station now have to bump or get furloughed? Seniority depending I know....

I read the decision that allows the guy to bump in but it does not answer my question to you.

You answered part of them. But your right, I can no longer find or see where I answered each of your questions in bold below each of your para's.
I will try to copy and paste now, but not sure if it will transfer...


↑
SWAMT; What happens to the guys at the unprotected station if they get a furlough notice? They do have bumping rights I assume? So if they go to one of your protected stations, does that station absorb them or does another member of AMFA get furloughed? If SWA or Alaska change their corporate model as far as aircraft being flown what happens with that statement as well? I would assume there is language in your contract saying that at any time the job can't be accomplished the company has the right to conduct business as required?
I read they would go with bumping rights. Not sure if they (Alaska) can bid into a new station unless there is an open position available though.
Yes to the language about the company running the bus as they need to.

The NO STRIKE, NO LAYOFF, STATION PROTECTION, and whatever other clauses that are placed in a unions contract are ALL smoke and mirrors to make the members Feeeeeeel all warm and fuzzy. No Union can insure you have a job until the contract becomes ammedable.
I hear what you are saying, and yes, if the company really had to they will run the company as they see fit even if they need to go thru the courts to accomplish such tasks.


AMFA members do have more rights than we do here at AA, but as GREAT as you claim SWA AMFA membership is, it's the same as every other airline. Only as strong/good as those who participate, and get involved in day to day going on.
Correct. A union membership is only as strong as the involvement of said membership. I will use a strike vote as example (example only) if only 10% of the membership would vote to do a strike= weak membership and union stance, but if a huge 95-99% vote came out that would have much stronger unity of the membership and companies will notice.

Here at AA only the TWU scammers are involved no one else cares, simply because of all the corruption that has been going on here in the last 30+ years. No matter who goes into office here the scamming continues. That change from within does NOT work. That is WHY we here at AA need a reboot. Restart from scratch with AMFA, New members here at AA need to step up and say I am tired of this. We will see if/when we file and get an election.
Yes you do. At least with AMFA, the membership can and will control the scamming going on. We have voted 2-3 times to remove certain ALR's as well as a couple of other votes trying to oust certain National Officers. With AMFA those options are available. Not allowed at any other industrial union.

SWAMT you preach a good game (I understand you are out at the moment ) but what involvement have YOU had in the UNION?
I am no longer a union rep. Was taking way too much of my personal family time away from family so I pulled back. But I do stay in touch with all the fellas. I was also involved in a bunch of contract nego's and keeping up with system boards and arbitrations that the teamsters refused to fight for us. But I will say I was also one of the main guys that helped bring AMFA in at SWA, as there were many who helped as well as it was a rather large group wanting changes to our representation.

 

[swamt]

Good answer, I am glad you were involved, most don't do that even though they spout off like they are...

Oh I hear ya loud and clear. Many folks never get involved and just love to spout off all the time.

F the TWU. You gave away our right to choose our representation along with a plethora of other failures.

Your time screwing over the members at AA is about to end.

Stick to Local 100 problems there Johnny!

This guy is a complete moron and idiot.
"It has just been brought to his attention that there is an AMFA card drive going on." BS! He knows dam good and well there has been a card drive going for almost one year now. Then he says they helped AMFA. What? When and how there chief??
He also says that they were asked by AMFA to come and help AMFA when they were weak? Hello again there chief! AMFA was never weak, not once during our almost 7 year fight for a decent contract. AMFA was strong and united and stayed 100% focussed and never blinked once, and that sir is what gets the membership an "TRUE" ILC. Not just a mer one that the leaders keep claiming is ILC.

Rogallo, all my quotes are towards that video idiot samleson, not you. (I think you know that though)

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

You answered part of them. But your right, I can no longer find or see where I answered each of your questions in bold below each of your para's.
I will try to copy and paste now, but not sure if it will transfer...


↑
SWAMT; What happens to the guys at the unprotected station if they get a furlough notice? They do have bumping rights I assume? So if they go to one of your protected stations, does that station absorb them or does another member of AMFA get furloughed? If SWA or Alaska change their corporate model as far as aircraft being flown what happens with that statement as well? I would assume there is language in your contract saying that at any time the job can't be accomplished the company has the right to conduct business as required?
I read they would go with bumping rights. Not sure if they (Alaska) can bid into a new station unless there is an open position available though.
Yes to the language about the company running the bus as they need to.

The NO STRIKE, NO LAYOFF, STATION PROTECTION, and whatever other clauses that are placed in a unions contract are ALL smoke and mirrors to make the members Feeeeeeel all warm and fuzzy. No Union can insure you have a job until the contract becomes ammedable.
I hear what you are saying, and yes, if the company really had to they will run the company as they see fit even if they need to go thru the courts to accomplish such tasks.


AMFA members do have more rights than we do here at AA, but as GREAT as you claim SWA AMFA membership is, it's the same as every other airline. Only as strong/good as those who participate, and get involved in day to day going on.
Correct. A union membership is only as strong as the involvement of said membership. I will use a strike vote as example (example only) if only 10% of the membership would vote to do a strike= weak membership and union stance, but if a huge 95-99% vote came out that would have much stronger unity of the membership and companies will notice.

Here at AA only the TWU scammers are involved no one else cares, simply because of all the corruption that has been going on here in the last 30+ years. No matter who goes into office here the scamming continues. That change from within does NOT work. That is WHY we here at AA need a reboot. Restart from scratch with AMFA, New members here at AA need to step up and say I am tired of this. We will see if/when we file and get an election.
Yes you do. At least with AMFA, the membership can and will control the scamming going on. We have voted 2-3 times to remove certain ALR's as well as a couple of other votes trying to oust certain National Officers. With AMFA those options are available. Not allowed at any other industrial union.

SWAMT you preach a good game (I understand you are out at the moment ) but what involvement have YOU had in the UNION?
I am no longer a union rep. Was taking way too much of my personal family time away from family so I pulled back. But I do stay in touch with all the fellas. I was also involved in a bunch of contract nego's and keeping up with system boards and arbitrations that the teamsters refused to fight for us. But I will say I was also one of the main guys that helped bring AMFA in at SWA, as there were many who helped as well as it was a rather large group wanting changes to our representation.

I highlighted your answers in red, you put out stuff that AMFA's NEC accomplished with the arbitrator saying that guys couldn't be furloughed at protected station, that was misleading in my thought process. So do you now realise that when a un-protected member comes to the protected station with his bumping right those guys are NOT safe. It's just a play on words. When the company wants to cut all they have to do is go to those stations of unprotected and force a bump process. Running company as they see fit. That was my response to the LOA article # 29 or #9 which ever you quoted.

 

[swamt]

I highlighted your answers in red, you put out stuff that AMFA's NEC accomplished with the arbitrator saying that guys couldn't be furloughed at protected station, that was misleading in my thought process. So do you now realise that when a un-protected member comes to the protected station with his bumping right those guys are NOT safe. It's just a play on words. When the company wants to cut all they have to do is go to those stations of unprotected and force a bump process. Running company as they see fit. That was my response to the LOA article # 29 or #9 which ever you quoted.

But, I am not sure if Alaska mechanics (per their contract) are allowed to bump into a station unless there is an opening. I am not in full knowledge of their contract because I am not there. I was simply going by Brets updated info.
The major point I was pointing out was that at least AMFA will fight for their members. Instead of just allowing a company to pull the "force majeure" card, AMFA challenged them and won. And since then have not heard of any move towards the unprotected stations.

 

[swamt]

To ALL of the M&R employees at AA the AMFA organizing group ( aka your fellow workers ) will be sending out another letter via text msg and or email with further information within the next day.

Have the folks at AA received this text or email from the AA AMFA Organizing Committee?
If Yes, can the info be shared or is it best not to?

http://www.amfa-aa.com/download/206568/

In the letter above from Mr. Painter of AMFA it states in the 3rd para that they will file no later than Nov 2020. Curious if this is still a go? And if so how long after the filing could the membership expect for voting? Sort of in hopes of getting this away from holidays. Any thoughts?
I also believe that Nov marks the 1 year of card collecting.
Either way the members that have not signed a card, but, did so in the past, now is the time to get those cards in. Sure there might be enough to file but it is always a good idea to always get a bit more padded amounts in order to be very confident and assured, so guys and gals please take the time now to send in those cards before the end of Oct. so as to have a filing in Nov. 2020. Pretty sure we will see some long and dragged out protesting by the current asso. (TWU/IAM) as well as possibly by the company as well, so could it be possible this vote could extend into Jan. 2021?? Just a thought. I really don't think the company (AA) will send another record timing list to the NMB, but, I know AMFA will be prepared for it this time. I bet they try and drag this thing out as long as they can with protest and suits IMO.
No matter what happens I wish all the AA mechanics and related good luck in their attempt to get a vote done, the time for change is now or never for you guys and you will never look back again when you succeed, just ask the Horizon guys that just did it...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Have the folks at AA received this text or email from the AA AMFA Organizing Committee?

If Yes, can the info be shared or is it best not to?

http://www.amfa-aa.com/download/206568/

In the letter above from Mr. Painter of AMFA it states in the 3rd para that they will file no later than Nov 2020. Curious if this is still a go? And if so how long after the filing could the membership expect for voting? Sort of in hopes of getting this away from holidays. Any thoughts?
I also believe that Nov marks the 1 year of card collecting.
Either way the members that have not signed a card, but, did so in the past, now is the time to get those cards in. Sure there might be enough to file but it is always a good idea to always get a bit more padded amounts in order to be very confident and assured, so guys and gals please take the time now to send in those cards before the end of Oct. so as to have a filing in Nov. 2020. Pretty sure we will see some long and dragged out protesting by the current asso. (TWU/IAM) as well as possibly by the company as well, so could it be possible this vote could extend into Jan. 2021?? Just a thought. I really don't think the company (AA) will send another record timing list to the NMB, but, I know AMFA will be prepared for it this time. I bet they try and drag this thing out as long as they can with protest and suits IMO.
No matter what happens I wish all the AA mechanics and related good luck in their attempt to get a vote done, the time for change is now or never for you guys and you will never look back again when you succeed, just ask the Horizon guys that just did it...

1. "YES" Painter letter was sent and has been hung in break rooms.

2. "YES" this is still a GO

3. A vote will be conducted by the NMB once the cards are verified and a list from AA supplied with the number of eligible members they believe are in the Class and craft. That is where the database we have has been kept all these years comes into play. A month or so I would guess?

4. True our cards will expire in the Month of NOV. 2020, ( 1yr )

5. "YES" it could end up with a vote happening in Jan of 2021, depending on number of cards filed, AA's list, NMB, and what other factors that could come into play with motions from the ASSociation.

6. It is NOT "AMFA" it is the employees of AA that are filing for the change of representation, our selection is AMFA. I think this time we are prepared for what may get thrown at us.

YOU are 100% correct that the guys who had previously sign card should again this time and the Title 2 guys who historically haven't should by now see that the TWU/IAM Association is NOT looking out for them.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

But, I am not sure if Alaska mechanics (per their contract) are allowed to bump into a station unless there is an opening. I am not in full knowledge of their contract because I am not there. I was simply going by Brets updated info.
The major point I was pointing out was that at least AMFA will fight for their members. Instead of just allowing a company to pull the "force majeure" card, AMFA challenged them and won. And since then have not heard of any move towards the unprotected stations.

SWAMT; Whatever language is in the Alaska contract with regards to the bumping process can be found on the AMFA National web page, I would assume. Can't you pull up your contract and compare the two?

Does it really Matter each company no matter what union will have some rules the same and some different.
The membership and the company by negotiations and a vote to ratify or not the language in the contract. Each membership has a importance level for each and every section of that contract. That is why some language stays and some gets changed each time the contract becomes ammedable.

 

[JimmyBop]

Why are AMFA supporters asking Fleet Service Clerks to sign cards in Dallas? Aren't FSC's the enemy? Trying to pad the numbers? You can deny this is happening, but its not. (And no, these weren't lav techs.)

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Why are AMFA supporters asking Fleet Service Clerks to sign cards in Dallas? Aren't FSC's the enemy? Trying to pad the numbers? You can deny this is happening, but its not. (And no, these weren't lav techs.)

JimmyBop;

To answer your question there are members of AA ground support staff outside of what we all consider M&R, that ARE INCLUDED by the NMB in our Class & Craft. There are also groups that AA has in the past included on the list they have supplied to the NMB that they believe should be allowed to vote. The AMFA organizer have maintained a database which we have had for many years. We also due to the Freedom of information act have copies of the lists provided by AA to the NMB with the filing of the Teamster cards and all previous attempts by your AMFA Organizers. To prevent any further collusion between the ASSociation and AA in a attempt to attempt to keep us from bringing this to a VOTE. So at this time we are collecting cards from those groups of employees.

I Hope that this answers the questions you have asked?

 

[dfw gen]

Why are AMFA supporters asking Fleet Service Clerks to sign cards in Dallas? Aren't FSC's the enemy? Trying to pad the numbers? You can deny this is happening, but its not. (And no, these weren't lav techs.)

Thats easy there jimmy pooper, if you service aircraft your listed in the craft and class. Its an old industrial union trick to inflate the numbers of the class and craft classification. Its kinda like when the iam and the twu used the dues checkoff card we are legally required to sign for employment as a sign of interest in the association.....but thats ok jimmy pooper there is no threat dont look this way its all good....

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Why are AMFA supporters asking Fleet Service Clerks to sign cards in Dallas?
Aren't FSC's the enemy?

JimmyBop;

"NO" the FSC are not our enemy, they are fellow employees just in a different job classification. Putting one group of workers against another is NOT and Never has been the Goal of your AMFA Organizers. I am sure if you work in DFW and asked one of the Main organizers there they will tell you the same thing.

 

[Rogallo]

It truly is amazing what we are up against in our effort to improve our representation.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

It truly is amazing what we are up against in our effort to improve our representation.

Rogallo;

What has baffled me for the last 20+ yrs that I have been involved with bringing AMFA here to AA, is that I have to answer the same questions over and over from the guys here. That NO MATTER what the TWU has done to our Class and Craft, the guys here at AA still need to be spoon fed the information about what has happened and what will happen. It is their career and the job that puts food on the table. Yet the SCAMMING and BACK DOOR DEALS, continue and guys still will not overwhelmingly sign a Card to rid our class and craft of the FOOLISH Industrial Union. ( TWU )

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

This is being sent to the LUS M&R guys around the system to explain some of the confusion that they have with a bit of contract language that is part of our current contract.

https://tapit.us/zzWtGo

download and open this and place in break rooms if possible if you have LUS air M&R employees at your station. You can also go to AMFA-AA.COM for other information.

If you are part of LAA M&R pass this on as well so that our membership will understand as well.

 

[Rogallo]

Rogallo;

What has baffled me for the last 20+ yrs that I have been involved with bringing AMFA here to AA, is that I have to answer the same questions over and over from the guys here. That NO MATTER what the TWU has done to our Class and Craft, the guys here at AA still need to be spoon fed the information about what has happened and what will happen. It is their career and the job that puts food on the table. Yet the SCAMMING and BACK DOOR DEALS, continue and guys still will not overwhelmingly sign a Card to rid our class and craft of the FOOLISH Industrial Union. ( TWU )

This is being sent to the LUS M&R guys around the system to explain some of the confusion that they have with a bit of contract language that is part of our current contract.

https://tapit.us/zzWtGo

download and open this and place in break rooms if possible if you have LUS air M&R employees at your station. You can also go to AMFA-AA.COM for other information.

If you are part of LAA M&R pass this on as well so that our membership will understand as well.

I'm sorry to have to post this over and over but it has turned into an epidemic in the USA.