Amfa Fails To Get Election At Aa

[Raptor]

That is what Koziatek claimed, with Little nodding along. My response was that if that was true, that they would not be willing to strike for improvements then it was his fault as the leader of the TWU. That given the right leadership Tulsans are no different than New Yorkers and if the injustice was made clear to them that they would be willing to fight like anyone else.

I'll admit that at times my basic faith in that has been tested but at the core I believe it to be true, I believe that the majority in Tulsa are decent honorable people willing to do the right thing but they, like everyone else, are waiting for a real leader to step up to the plate. The sad part is that the structure of the TWU will never let that happen.

I hope you are right Bob my faith in wether Tulsan's would strike is a little shaky as well, I know I would be willing to do it but I have heard from many that said they would not, one thing I am sure of without being willing to strike we will never get a good contract no matter what Union we have on the property.
I do think that the majority of AA's work force being in a low cost of living area does hinder the chances of a strike, but I would like to think that we would if we had to and I sure hope AA thinks we would

 

[Decision 2004]

Bob you have been at AA for many years like myself you have been an officer in the TWU, AMFA has had drives at AA for the last 15 years this is the first year that you have supported AMFA can you really wonder why some are willing to give the TWU another chance with your history on this ? :unsure:
I am not critisizing you Bob as I have virtually the same history as you do, and this was my first year as an AMFA supporter as well, I am just asking a question. OK

Raptor,

When were you ever an "Officer" of the TWU? When were you ever removed from Office for speaking your mind and the truth?

I do not remember that time frame?

 

[Raptor]

Raptor,

When were you ever an "Officer" of the TWU? When were you ever removed from Office for speaking your mind and the truth?

I do not remember that time frame?

I said virtually the same History not exactly the same history meaning we have both been at AA for many years and neither of us supported AMFA until this year. :unsure:

 

[RUM@AA]

since I am going to give the TWU another chance I will only be voting for one incumbent officer and that is Mike Mcdonald everyone else is History as far as my vote goes, I want new tougher blood as officers in our local, I do not believe in sabotage voting as some have suggested to me that makes no sense, so I will be voting on people who I think will do a good job and get us a decent contract, I know that the TWU is capable of getting a decent contract because it was done in 2001 so it can be done and I hope it will be done in 2009

And for whom will you be voting for ATD Director? Or International President? Oh, almost forgot, you don't get to vote for them do you?

Come on Raptor, you know better than this. Local officers mean VERY LITTLE in the TWU. It all lies in the International Good Ole Boy network. And I do mean Lies.

 

[Hackman]

Good attitude Hackman. . . .throw one of your own to the curb because you don't like what he says or thinks for that matter. But hey, I guess you are just following in the footsteps of your great organizer Dave Stewart. It's his way or the highway.

If amfa had a vote and won it, you would expect the same from the TWU supporters. Don't lie!! Because you know deep down that what Raptor says is correct. If we don't stand together and fight then we are at a disadvantage.

Amfa took advantage of a bad situation and ran with it, spitting out half-truths along the way. THAT sir is how you got so many cards signed. Like Raptor, I am tired of this fighting and carrying on. I have no doubt that some of you diehards will continue with another card drive. Why can't you do it quietly??????

My attitude is right where is should be, fighting for my craft. If people like Raptor want to quit because they think continuing the fight is counterproductive, then I have no time for them. This fight will continue, with him or without. I am not in this for political reasons, never have been, if I never get elected to office, that would be fine with me.

I am in this to stop the twu from their constant destruction of my carreer, plain and simple. The twu has singlehandly screwed this profession, industry wide since 1983. I know for a fact that when AMFA wins, and we will, that twu cowards like yourself will not support AMFA. Just like at NWA, UAL, SWA, and other airlines that dumped the industrial union albatross, there are former iam/ibt/twu officers and supporters that continue to drag AMFA down. They continue to mount feeble card drives for reasons none other than their own. They could give a sh## less about the membership they sold down the river with their former worthless unions. They are upset that the members took control, and they are back at their toolbox. You still fail to see that the twu will never fight this company. How many times must you lose in twu contract negotiations before you wake up?

AMFA took advantage of nothing. The twu failed in good times, over and over, and now your claiming that this ultimate twu sellout is reason for this card drive? WRONG!!!!

I will not go back to the twu slaughter house in 2009 quietly!!!!

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!!

 

[Raptor]

Hackman when it comes to organizing I think timing is everything last year was the perfect timing for many reasons but we still could not make it happen for some reason, I don't know why ? but I think that next year will probably not be good timing, I just don't think the same or more cards will come next year we will see if I am wrong or not, if it happens I will be happy but I doubt if it will I think the apathetic people in Tulsa will need something else drastic to happen to get them to fill out a card, and I don't see anything as drastic as what happend last year in the forcast for next year, you like me have been at AA for a long time and I know that you are probably thinking the same thing but you are hoping that it is not true.
The Majority of the people in Tulsa are too apathetic to even put out enough effort to sign a card most do not even vote on the contracts many did not even vote on this HUGE concession, it takes a huge slap in the face to get anything out of the people here and most have very short memories, I think that is what you will see in your next card drive, I do think that some day AMFA will probably get in at AA but it will only happen when the timing is right and I don't think it will be next year.
One thing I do know is that it takes alot of an Organizers own money and time to make it happen so I hope your up to it.
Some of us are simply not at this time.

 

[Decision 2004]

Hackman when it comes to organizing I think timing is everything last year was the perfect timing for many reasons but we still could not make it happen for some reason,

When exactly is a good time and good reason to realize that your Union Sucks and needs to be replaced?

There NEVER is a "good time" to realize that you have to remove a company union from the property for the survival of a profession.

NEVER!

 

[scorpion]

Get real, The TWU has done a hell of a lot better job of protecting jobs than the amfa. TWU leadership is hands down better than the amfa's especially here in Tulsa (what a fiasco).

This was posted on another topic by a (non mechanic and related) twu worshipper.
Raptor what you said in your last post is sad but true about most of the twu followers and the people here in Tulsa in general. They actually believe the twu keeps jobs here. What keeps work at the maintenance bases at AA (especially tulsa) is the different philosophy compared to other airlines. They want to maintain as much control of their product as is feasible its not because of any union involvement. Hell just look at the current scope language also any work that has never been accomplished inhouse isn't considered outsourced and can't be grieved or at least grieved and won. Thats why there is so much hell being raised about the cfm56 engine. The company wants to tear it down and ship the work out. They can do this brother. Just look at all the management fat running around Tulsa, is the twu saving their jobs too, I surely hope not.

Bottom line is the twu has an easy situation here in T Town and they are running with it.
American has tested the waters plenty of times with outsourcing and it bites them in the ass, they can't get their work back on time and the quality isn't as good as we can give them right here at home.

We have alot of people in tulsa that fall under the 60 mile radius phrase. They were born here and never plan on leaving here which theres nothing wrong with but it wouldn't be a bad thing if they would look outside the box for once in their life and realise the company and the twu are using this as a psychological advantage to screw them and everyone else in th system.

 

[Raptor]

Who wants an officer who is constantly attacking people for giving their opinion on something if you don't think like Dave then watch out cause he is gonna hammer on you, it would be the same way if he was the officer in our local, speak your mind in a meeting and he would tell you to shutup and start thinking like him or you would be escorted out of the Union Hall, has anyone noticed that Dave does more personal attacking than anyone on this board, everyone else tries to stick to the subject and not get personal but all Dave wants to do is get personal, get a life man, relax and try not to get so upset and personal, everyone already knows we can't stand each other so let's keep it professional and not personal we are all adults here are we not :unsure: , can you not debate an issue without resorting to personal attacks, just try it for a while I know you can do it.

 

[Decision 2004]

Who wants an officer who is constantly attacking people for giving their opinion on something if you don't think like Dave then watch out cause he is gonna hammer on you, it would be the same way if he was the officer in our local, speak your mind in a meeting and he would tell you to shutup and start thinking like him or you would be escorted out of the Union Hall, has anyone noticed that Dave does more personal attacking than anyone on this board, everyone else tries to stick to the subject and not get personal but all Dave wants to do is get personal, get a life man, relax and try not to get so upset and personal, everyone already knows we can't stand each other so let's keep it professional and not personal we are all adults here are we not :unsure: , can you not debate an issue without resorting to personal attacks, just try it for a while I know you can do it.

Most of the time you are not giving opinions, you are spewing out right lies, just like a good TWU supporter does.

 

[Raptor]

Most of the time you are not giving opinions, you are spewing out right lies, just like a good TWU supporter does.

once again am I lieing or uninformed there is a difference.
Also even if someone is saying something that is not true on purpose that does not necessitate a personal attack you could simply disagree like the rest of us

I am not going to be an organizer in this next drive but I was thinking about signing a card but I am sure that if you try hard enough you could persuade me not to sign one, and that would be one less card you would have, hell if you really put some effort into it you might even be able to persuade me to join Team TWU and become anti-AMFA organizer.
You can be very negativly persuasive when you really want to

Just something to think about Davey boy <_<

you are not going to stop me from being me so why try :unsure:
as you said it is a wasted effort.

 

[Decision 2004]

once again am I lieing or uninformed there is a difference.
Also even if someone is saying something that is not true on purpose that does not necessitate a personal attack you could simply disagree like the rest of us

I am not going to be an organizer in this next drive but I was thinking about signing a card but I am sure that if you try hard enough you could persuade me not to sign one, and that would be one less card you would have, hell if you really put some effort into it you might even be able to persuade me to join Team TWU and become anti-AMFA organizer.
You can be very negativly persuasive when you really want to

Just something to think about Davey boy <_<

you are not going to stop me from being me so why try :unsure:
as you said it is a wasted effort.

You are uniformed, and since you never qualify what you claim to be true as just your opinion then you are a liar. Read your post pal, you flat out said the NMB ruled we did not have enough cards. And then backed it up with a statement that no NMB ruling has ever been overturned. That appeared to me to be a statement of fact. I will however, admit that without the emotion one senses in a face to face conversation, I could have just taken the way you say these things wrong. My apologies if that is the case. Maybe I should be more forgiving, but hey, I've got character flaws right along with the rest of the population.


Go for it Dan,

You would be an asset to TEAM TWU, then the next time we are on the corner holding AMFA banners, you can be the intimidator that shows up with Howard and Thompson. I have seen your anger and threatening behavior first hand, you are no doubt TEAM TWU material.

You were standing right there and witnessed the event in person, and now you have decided to support that crap? Go ahead, make my day!

Get a few more TWU slogans while your at it.

United We Bargain - Divided We Beg
First Step in the Right Direction
For the right reason.
Don't lower wages oppose right to work
Stop SQ 695
Triumph With Unity
An Injustice to One is an Injustice to All
Strike Force - Dead Serious
Will Strike if Provoked
Aviation Inmate
American's Real Strength
Best Workers in the World
United Invincable
United We Stand 1995 Contract Negotiations
What Part of Union Dont You Understand

On and On and On

TWU is not Unionism, TWU is sloganism without unity, without courage, without leadership, without accountability.

I thought you were going to Bigsplash to Float Turds with the rest of the teAAm?

 

[local 12 proud]

I thought you were going to Bigsplash to Float Turds with the rest of the teAAm? now, thats funny!

 

[Hackman]

Hackman when it comes to organizing I think timing is everything last year was the perfect timing for many reasons but we still could not make it happen for some reason, I don't know why ? but I think that next year will probably not be good timing, I just don't think the same or more cards will come next year we will see if I am wrong or not, if it happens I will be happy but I doubt if it will I think the apathetic people in Tulsa will need something else drastic to happen to get them to fill out a card, and I don't see anything as drastic as what happend last year in the forcast for next year, you like me have been at AA for a long time and I know that you are probably thinking the same thing but you are hoping that it is not true.
The Majority of the people in Tulsa are too apathetic to even put out enough effort to sign a card most do not even vote on the contracts many did not even vote on this HUGE concession, it takes a huge slap in the face to get anything out of the people here and most have very short memories, I think that is what you will see in your next card drive, I do think that some day AMFA will probably get in at AA but it will only happen when the timing is right and I don't think it will be next year.
One thing I do know is that it takes alot of an Organizers own money and time to make it happen so I hope your up to it.
Some of us are simply not at this time.

Oh timing, I see. The twu continues to screw us, year after year, but in your foolish opinion, its just never the quite the right time. My god man. Do you hear yourself? Let me understand, you now want to quit the drive because the nmb, aa, and the twu conspired together to stop this card drive at all costs. So now after we have suffered the worst concessions of any airline, in bankruptcy or out. Management laughing at us while they line their pockets. You now want to wait and see what the company and the twu does to us in 2009? Right? What, my friend, are you smoking?

What could be more "drastic" than this horrific contract that the twu stuck us with? Short of american airlines shutting the doors, I can't think of anything worse. Now to throw salt in the gapping wound, little jimmy and the boys go to arpey and weel demanding a sum total of management sacrifices. I remember little after the carty fiasco, saying to management something like; "Not one red cent from our members until management goes first". Why now? That is ineptness, that is misguided, that is your twu in action, or the lack of it. "Lets load the gun after they start shooting". Asinine.

Listen Raptor, they (AA) are going to come at us again, because they know the twu is corruptable, weak, and unwilling to fight. Why do you think aa wants to keep the dispicable twu so bad? We had enough cards if the nmb wasn't corrupt, to add 2000+ names to the list is the only way the twu and aa could stop this vote. The nmb actions were not unexspected. Ms. hennessy screwed UAL, and AMFA came back and won, the next year. NWA was cheated by the nmb, and they got AMFA in also. AMFA at AA will do the same.


I am up to going be part of the next card drive if AMFA's appeal is denied. To go back to the twu is not an option. The timing is now!!!!!

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Strake]

10) Randy McDonald is our man. I also think an all female ballot is the way to go.

Hey Busboy, would you mind elaborating a little more on number 10. You've peaked my interest. Thanks!






AMFA= LOSS OF EMPLOYMENT