AMFA at AA- consolidated thread

[ThirdSeatHero]

Unless the AMFA constitution has changed drastically in the last few years, it required a petition of 25% of the affected membership to trigger a recall. If the offending ALR was involved in contract negotiations that threshold is increased to 50% of the affected membership.

I will echo the sentiments on membership apathy, if the affected membership felt aggrieved enough to sign a recall petition they should at least take the time to cast their actual vote.

 

[Anomaly]

Unless the AMFA constitution has changed drastically in the last few years, it required a petition of 25% of the affected membership to trigger a recall. If the offending ALR was involved in contract negotiations that threshold is increased to 50% of the affected membership.

I will echo the sentiments on membership apathy, if the affected membership felt aggrieved enough to sign a recall petition they should at least take the time to cast their actual vote.

No argument here brother.

 

[xUT]

xUT, I believe Quagmires point was that 50% plus 1 should be required to REMOVE an elected official but not to elect. An election should be as it is which is the majority of those who bothered to vote.

I agree to the minimums that should be present in order to remove one from office. Otherwise any small group, even as small as 8% can change the will of many.

IMHO, the process for removal should be equal to the process of election.
If 8% can elect then 8% can reject.
Anywho, why are you concerned considering that ibt officers are appointed and not elected, not subject to recall except by lil jimmy and his cronies.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

IMHO, the process for removal should be equal to the process of election.
If 8% can elect then 8% can reject.
Anywho, why are you concerned considering that ibt officers are appointed and not elected, not subject to recall except by lil jimmy and his cronies.

I am not concerned about IBT officers. I think all the membership deserves the output they get from the input.

You and I are on the same page here x. We were the boots on the ground to effect the change and get the goods. The next generation dropped the ball. You have the anomaly's of the world wringing their hands knowing that the members are as apathetic as ever. That means more dues for POS contracts and cushy union positions.

 

[Anomaly]

IMHO, the process for removal should be equal to the process of election.
If 8% can elect then 8% can reject.
Anywho, why are you concerned considering that ibt officers are appointed and not elected, not subject to recall except by lil jimmy and his cronies.

Where do you get your info?? Don't tell me you have reduced yourself to the likes of others on this site and have begun making up your own facts? I had such a good impression of you....how sad.

The IBT officers are elected. They hold terms in office according to the bylaws and can be voted in or out accordingly. The members determine the bylaws and can change them by a fairly simple process although it does require some interest and another vote.

Perhaps you are mixing up officers with staff? Staff can be hired, or appointed as you claim. However, if the staff is not performing up to par, the principal officer could be held accountable and loose the subsequent election. His staff would likely be gone as well since the new Officer would hire his own staff.

Whats the difference between amfa and the Teamster system of hiring a Business Agent?

In an amfa local, it takes a certain percentage and an election procedure based on popularity to remove a bad or questionable representative. With the Teamsters, it only takes one Principal Officer, and poof, new rep.

 

[Bob Owens]

Where do you get your info?? Don't tell me you have reduced yourself to the likes of others on this site and have begun making up your own facts? I had such a good impression of you....how sad.

The IBT officers are elected. They hold terms in office according to the bylaws and can be voted in or out accordingly. The members determine the bylaws and can change them by a fairly simple process although it does require some interest and another vote.

Perhaps you are mixing up officers with staff? Staff can be hired, or appointed as you claim. However, if the staff is not performing up to par, the principal officer could be held accountable and loose the subsequent election. His staff would likely be gone as well since the new Officer would hire his own staff.

Whats the difference between amfa and the Teamster system of hiring a Business Agent?

Sure Hoffa and the other top officers are voted in by the members, how many? Over 1 million, so every mechanic could vote against Hoffa and he would still be in charge, but in reality who handles the mechanics and their issues? Business agents right?

How are Business agents chosen? Not by the mechanics. Is it possible that Aircraft mechanics will have to work through Business agents that never worked a day in the Airline Industry?

Is it possible that some of the Business agents could be the same people that the members rejected? I hear that Todd Woodward is in line to be a business agent, well sometimes people are unpopular for a good reason. If they put people like that in you would lose most of the line guys at day one, the question is "can they?". So mechanics could vote in the IBT mainly to get away from having Gless and Videtich governing their careers only to have the IBT appoint them to spots where they will continue to do that, sure they can vote against Hoffa as a response at the next Convention but even if every mechanic voted against Hoffa it wouldn't likely make much of a difference.

Popularity may get you in the door, but if you don't deliver what you say you wont remain popular very long. So just like the TWU where once people are voted out they are often picked up by the International (Gless, Gordon, Gillespie etc etc) we may see the same thing with the IBT? In reality if the IBT were voted in there is nothing stopping Hoffa from appointing Videtich to do what he is doing now is there?

 

[700UW]

All ready happened when HP's mechanics were ibt, they BA, lead rep and negotiator was Andy Marshall, who drove a delivery truck for UPS.

Never was an aircraft mechanic nor an airline employee.

 

[swamt]

With this, the only thing you prove is a leader who takes a stand on a controversial position WILL be removed from office by a small group of members. According to you, it only took 222 members to remove a person from office. Assuming there are 2600 in the entire membership (you do not state which ALR or who was eligible to vote) this equates to a little over 8% of the membership needed to yank someone out. You call this DEMOCRACY?

I call it mob rules. With this idiotic policy, how can you expect to attract any true and worthwhile leaders? Any person with talent and brains would realize their decisions are and must remain dictated by what a lot of the members want even if it is a BAD decision. Leading sometimes means taking an unpopular position, and your example proves the fact that your leadership must play to politics rather than to what is good for the membership.

YOUR SYSTEM DOES NOT REQUIRE A MAJORITY TO REMOVE A PERSON FROM OFFICE.

8% IS NOT A MAJORITY.

The company offers to give all line mechanics a 15% raise in exchange for the ability to farm out all hangar work. In order to keep his position under your system, the leader MUST make his decision based on which group has the votes to remove him from office rather than his personal beliefs and conviction. If he does not sacrifice all the hangar guys, all that is needed is 8% of the line mechanics and this guy is out.

Your system is fundamentally flawed. You are too ignorant to see it. Your system reduces amfa leadership to mindless sheep.

Think about it...

I sure do call it democracy... Can you do this, Anomaly, at your airline with the current union you have? NO You cannot. Now do you call that democracy? Far from it mister, your membership cannot remove any officer local or international levels period...

 

[Anomaly]

I sure do call it democracy... Can you do this, Anomaly, at your airline with the current union you have? NO You cannot. Now do you call that democracy? Far from it mister, your membership cannot remove any officer local or international levels period...

Your asking if we can get a small group of members who disagree with a decision and remove the elected person responsible?

Fortunately NO! We can not do that.

 

[WNMECH]

Unless the AMFA constitution has changed drastically in the last few years, it required a petition of 25% of the affected membership to trigger a recall. If the offending ALR was involved in contract negotiations that threshold is increased to 50% of the affected membership.

I will echo the sentiments on membership apathy, if the affected membership felt aggrieved enough to sign a recall petition they should at least take the time to cast their actual vote.

You are correct, it takes 25% to sign a petition to have a recall vote.

To all the uninformed people throwing around 8%,
AMFA local 11 has around 800 members and over 25 % signed a recall petition.
About 45-50 % voted on the recall.
Over 25% of the eligible voters voted to remove the local 11 ALR.
NOT 8%.

When this ALR was voted in on Dec 15, 2011
The vote was 221 for him and 137 against him.

Now he is recalled by the vote of 222 for recall and 139 against recall.

Looks like the same number of people doesn't it.

This was not a coup.
It was the same people who always vote changing their minds on him.

 

[WNMECH]

Your asking if we can get a small group of members who disagree with a decision and remove the elected person responsible?

Fortunately NO! We can not do that.

Fortunately for us, those of us who care to control our future and union, can vote.

It was not 8% of our local.
It was 100% of the people who voted him in.
And 100% of the people who always vote on local issues.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

All ready happened when HP's mechanics were ibt, they BA, lead rep and negotiator was Andy Marshall, who drove a delivery truck for UPS.

Never was an aircraft mechanic nor an airline employee.

Do you have an A&P? Were you a aircraft Mechanic? Were you a lavdriver/cleaner or stockclerk before you on a negotiating committee?

 

[WNMECH]

With this, the only thing you prove is a leader who takes a stand on a controversial position WILL be removed from office by a small group of members. According to you, it only took 222 members to remove a person from office. Assuming there are 2600 in the entire membership (you do not state which ALR or who was eligible to vote) this equates to a little over 8% of the membership needed to yank someone out. You call this DEMOCRACY?

I call it mob rules. With this idiotic policy, how can you expect to attract any true and worthwhile leaders? Any person with talent and brains would realize their decisions are and must remain dictated by what a lot of the members want even if it is a BAD decision. Leading sometimes means taking an unpopular position, and your example proves the fact that your leadership must play to politics rather than to what is good for the membership.

YOUR SYSTEM DOES NOT REQUIRE A MAJORITY TO REMOVE A PERSON FROM OFFICE.

8% IS NOT A MAJORITY.

The company offers to give all line mechanics a 15% raise in exchange for the ability to farm out all hangar work. In order to keep his position under your system, the leader MUST make his decision based on which group has the votes to remove him from office rather than his personal beliefs and conviction. If he does not sacrifice all the hangar guys, all that is needed is 8% of the line mechanics and this guy is out.

Your system is fundamentally flawed. You are too ignorant to see it. Your system reduces amfa leadership to mindless sheep.

Think about it...

Try using more than 8% of your brain, if you can, before you talk about something you know nothing about.

 

[Anomaly]

Try using more than 8% of your brain, if you can, before you talk about something you know nothing about.

Is this the best you can do? You don't like my calculations but you need to take it up with swamt. He is the one who posted the original figures and left them unchecked for several days.

I know this has nothing to do with this topic, but it does have a lot to do with the differences of how the membership controls the union and the fact that Officers are held accountable with AMFA. Below is the results of SWA's/AMFA's current ALR re-call vote: 2013 SWA Airline Rep Recall Election Results
222 Voted Yes re-call ALR
139 Voted No to re-call ALR
A very sad 365 members voted. But it does show a rather large majority wanted change, and got change only because we are AMFA. No other industrial unions can you do this with, none...

I pointed out in my reply that he had not mentioned who was eligible to vote so I used a general guess on the number of total amfa members.

With this, the only thing you prove is a leader who takes a stand on a controversial position WILL be removed from office by a small group of members. According to you, it only took 222 members to remove a person from office. Assuming there are 2600 in the entire membership (you do not state which ALR or who was eligible to vote) this equates to a little over 8% of the membership needed to yank someone out. You call this DEMOCRACY?

I call it mob rules. With this idiotic policy, how can you expect to attract any true and worthwhile leaders? Any person with talent and brains would realize their decisions are and must remain dictated by what a lot of the members want even if it is a BAD decision. Leading sometimes means taking an unpopular position, and your example proves the fact that your leadership must play to politics rather than to what is good for the membership.

YOUR SYSTEM DOES NOT REQUIRE A MAJORITY TO REMOVE A PERSON FROM OFFICE.

8% IS NOT A MAJORITY.

The company offers to give all line mechanics a 15% raise in exchange for the ability to farm out all hangar work. In order to keep his position under your system, the leader MUST make his decision based on which group has the votes to remove him from office rather than his personal beliefs and conviction. If he does not sacrifice all the hangar guys, all that is needed is 8% of the line mechanics and this guy is out.

Your system is fundamentally flawed. You are too ignorant to see it. Your system reduces amfa leadership to mindless sheep.

Think about it...

All of you had plenty of time to refute or correct the numbers, but instead you hurled insults. Did it take you that long to learn the specifics of the vote? Are either of you really SWA mechanics or are you just part of the amfa aliases that share the same IP address in a Tuls garage?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

You are correct, it takes 25% to sign a petition to have a recall vote.

To all the uninformed people throwing around 8%,
AMFA local 11 has around 800 members and over 25 % signed a recall petition.
About 45-50 % voted on the recall.
Over 25% of the eligible voters voted to remove the local 11 ALR.
NOT 8%.

When this ALR was voted in on Dec 15, 2011
The vote was 221 for him and 137 against him.

Now he is recalled by the vote of 222 for recall and 139 against recall.

Looks like the same number of people doesn't it.

This was not a coup.
It was the same people who always vote changing their minds on him.

Thank you for the clarification. That makes more sense.