AMFA at AA- consolidated thread

[700UW]

NWA short-term gains, until NW outsmarted the AMFA leadership and broke the union.

Independence Air, Seham lost a major status quo case when it was ACA, which caused no status quo on a newly organized group, so the company did what ever they wanted and AMFA was powerless to stop them, and they went out of business.

AS, closing of the OAK heavy maintenance, 200+ mechanics laid-off and all work outsourced, yep go ask those 200+ who lost their jobs if they are better off.

WN has been the only case of positives, yet you only have three lines of heavy with a fourth to start, at US more work is done in-house than at WN. You can make all the money you want, if you dont have scope, you dont have jobs.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

NWA short-term gains, until NW outsmarted the AMFA leadership and broke the union.

Independence Air, Seham lost a major status quo case when it was ACA, which caused no status quo on a newly organized group, so the company did what ever they wanted and AMFA was powerless to stop them, and they went out of business.

AS, closing of the OAK heavy maintenance, 200+ mechanics laid-off and all work outsourced, yep go ask those 200+ who lost their jobs if they are better off.

WN has been the only case of positives, yet you only have three lines of heavy with a fourth to start, at US more work is done in-house than at WN. You can make all the money you want, if you dont have scope, you dont have jobs.

And you can ask those of us that are left after the layoffs at AA if it was worth taking another beating to save jobs. Also ask those who end up as OSMs and see if they feel their jobs were saved. Just keep voting in the concessions like a good industrial unionist.

 

[Bob Owens]

The subject was the strength of a craft union when there is a readily available supply of those who can step in to do our jobs. Unlike pilots, the vendors have weakened much of the strength mechanics held in this industry. Consider how strong airline mechanics were before it became so simple to farm out our work?

The question is "Is there a readily available supply?" You seem to be claiming that there is when those people who are looking to hire are claiming that there isnt.

In 2005 I would agree that was not the case, thousands were laid off due to the prolonged Depression that started even before 9-11. Over half the A&P schools have closed their doors sonce 2000. The rate of A&Ps being certified has dropped to around 3000/year (many of whom are foreign nationals) with around 8000/year leaving the industry. Its been like that for several years now. With the lack of new blood the Maint workforce is growing old. Pain reliever commercials even use the old aircraft mechanic having to climb up stands as a prop to sell pain relievers.

You act as if all these MROs are something new, they arent, they have been around a long time, many of us started in such places decades ago to get experience and airlines have outsourced a long time. The only thing that really changed was they could outsouce more OH overseas. Thats worse for Domestic MRO workers than for Airline workers who should be able to leverage their Line Maint which is much more difficult to outsource in order to maintain compensation. Airlines usually brought work in house so they could run their operation on their schedule and control the quality of the work once they had the economies of scale to make it worthwhile. As MRO costs go up, in order to retain the few workers they get, the airlines may bring work back in house again, as is happening ay UAL (despite the IBT claims that they brought the work back it was simply the market) or maybe not, but the shortage will continue to get worse if wages dont improve. Sadly its not Union power thats increasing wages but a highly manipulted bottomed out market. Unionized mechanics at AA, US, UA and CO are not getting their monies worth for their dues they pay and even SWA and UPS have only kept pace with inflation at best. Just because NWA was able to bust the union (like CAL and EAL did) that does not mean the conditions that made that possible are still there today. If MROs are unable to get enough workers to handle the work they already have how would they be able to take on even more work? Sure if you give them several years they may be able to do it but a strike that they are not prepared for would still be effective regardless of what type of Union called the strike. The IBTs million members in other industries changes none of these things.

If as you claim the work is easily outsourced how would joining the IBT mitigate that? If anything using your arguement we would be better off staying in a Union with other workers at the same company like we have now than joining the IBT which would not be able to count on cooperation from the Pilots, Flight Attendants or especially the TWU. We would be alone in the IBT and our Locals would be run by people who arent even in the airline industry, how are the million truck drivers, zoo keepers etc going to support us against AA? From what you are saying if we went to the IBT we would in fact be saddled with all the disadvantages of a craft union in that we could not count on our peers at AA to help us while at the same time be disbursed to Locals where we are very small minorities in the local and none of the other members even work for AA. Following your arguements what the IBT is offering is the worst of both worlds; The lack of support that comes with an independant craft union and the lack of a voice that comes with being a minority in a huge industrial union and we would pay a lot more for that.