AMFA at AA- consolidated thread

[NYer]

The percentage was closer to 50% of eligible local 11 voters at least 45%.

Who is discouraging working overtime?
Who in AMFA is trying to control overtime?

Some people will always want to be led by someone else and be told what to do by their union bosses.
We prefer to control our own union.

Article III, Section 16 AMFA 2012 Constitution: "It is AMFA’s philosophy that members shall discourage the working of overtime, especially when fellow mem­bers are furloughed."

 

[NYer]

. All unions lose members. Ibt lost 112,000 members in the last few years. This on the internet. IAM lost members. Eastern airlines, TWA, United airlines, Northwest airlines to name a few. TWU lost members at Pan Am. They even lost the AA flight attendants. This is what happens in the airlines. Do you want a craft union that represents one group of workers or a free for all union? With AMFA everything is out in the open. Can you say the same with the TWU or the IBT? If an election is called I will not vote for the teamsters for the one major reason of keeping the teamsters from getting my pension money. We need to think past today and past the idea that any union is better than the TWU. I will excersise my right to use the Write In choice and write in AMFA. Best choice. No back door deals and no hidden agendas. With the teamsters do you know where your inflated dues money goes? Good luck in finding out. Vote AMFA on the Write in.

Yes, union member have gone down. But you mentioned airlines that have been defunct for many, many years. I'm talking about a choice you want us to make to be represented by an organization that has lost over 80% of their Membership over the past 10 years. Others have lost, but 80%+.

I know you may be dissatisfied by certain things, like transparency, but going to an organization that has trouble keeping and maintaining their Membership is a bigger problem than that. There are TENS of THOUSANDS of unionized mechanics in this country and AMFA represents only 3000.

By the way, if they couldn't get 50% cards signed in 10 years what makes you believe a write in vote even has a chance.

I don't know. How do we follow people that support AMFA but sign cards for the Teamsters (not sure if you did that, but others on these pages have admitted to doing so).

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Article III, Section 16 AMFA 2012 Constitution: "It is AMFA’s philosophy that members shall discourage the working of overtime, especially when fellow mem­bers are furloughed."

NYer

And your point is ????

If you were a true union person which by this post I am assuming NOT.

When fellow employees are being laid off, it is customary for the remaining workers
to reject the O/T. By this it shows the company that the membership is standing as one. By reducing the head count then offering O/T the company is sending a msg.

"YES" the company can run it's business as it sees fit.

Just as when union members are on strike most union people will not cross the picket line either.

These are old school rules for being in the union, but the new generation of IGM is only out for themselves. Not looking at the betterment of the group.

 

[NYer]

NYer

And your point is ????

If you were a true union person which by this post I am assuming NOT.

When fellow employees are being laid off, it is customary for the remaining workers
to reject the O/T. By this it shows the company that the membership is standing as one. By reducing the head count then offering O/T the company is sending a msg.

"YES" the company can run it's business as it sees fit.

Just as when union members are on strike most union people will not cross the picket line either.

These are old school rules for being in the union, but the new generation of IGM is only out for themselves. Not looking at the betterment of the group.

By having something like that in writing, it gives all the necessary ammunition for management to argue that there is a "job action" taking place. Not a really smart move.

If you want to carry on something like that, you can't put it in writing which can be used to get an injunction and take away its effectiveness.

Not only that, an organization should not try to force or pressure someone into avoiding OT without considering that Members personal situation. I understand the point you're trying to make, even if its flawed, but it shouldn't be something that's forced on someone.

BTW--"Old school" doesn't make it right. There is a need to adapt and update strategies that no longer work or have their intended outcomes.

 

[1AA]

Yes, union member have gone down. But you mentioned airlines that have been defunct for many, many years. I'm talking about a choice you want us to make to be represented by an organization that has lost over 80% of their Membership over the past 10 years. Others have lost, but 80%+.

I know you may be dissatisfied by certain things, like transparency, but going to an organization that has trouble keeping and maintaining their Membership is a bigger problem than that. There are TENS of THOUSANDS of unionized mechanics in this country and AMFA represents only 3000.

By the way, if they couldn't get 50% cards signed in 10 years what makes you believe a write in vote even has a chance.

I don't know. How do we follow people that support AMFA but sign cards for the Teamsters (not sure if you did that, but others on these pages have admitted to doing so).

Is United defunct? Is SWA defunct? Are the Flight Attendants of American Airlines defunct?
Should the AMT's join a Industrial union where you will be .02% of the membership?
How much representation will you get with that kind of support? Do pilots not have their own union? Do Flight Attendants not have their own union? Yes some Pilots and Flight Attendant groups are in Industrial unions and some do not have a union at all. Why should we not have the choice to be in a Class and Craft union that is only M&R? You ever hear the ole saying majority rules in a democracy? Well .02% does not sound like a majority to me. 90% is more like it with AMFA. The other 10% is the other skilled groups ie.. Automotive technicians and Facilities technicians.

Again I say use the WRITE IN choice and write in "AMFA"

 

[NYer]

Is United defunct? Is SWA defunct? Are the Flight Attendants of American Airlines defunct?
Should the AMT's join a Industrial union where you will be .02% of the membership?
How much representation will you get with that kind of support? Do pilots not have their own union? Do Flight Attendants not have their own union? Yes some Pilots and Flight Attendant groups are in Industrial unions and some do not have a union at all. Why should we not have the choice to be in a Class and Craft union that is only M&R? You ever hear the ole saying majority rules in a democracy? Well .02% does not sound like a majority to me. 90% is more like it with AMFA. The other 10% is the other skilled groups ie.. Automotive technicians and Facilities technicians.

Again I say use the WRITE IN choice and write in "AMFA"

So your argument is that we should be in an M&R exclusive organization because others have them. It doesn't matter that they have an overwhelmingly small percentage of the total M&R membership to represent. It doesn't matter that even though they're an M&R-centric organization they haven't been successful in the 50 plus years they've been around. It doesn't matter that OTHER M&R groups tasted that water and decided to move on. It doesn't matter that they haven't been able to shoot past anyone else in the industry.

What matters is that they represent M&R almost exclusively.

In essence, you want an invitation to an exclusive Country Club just so you can say you're a member.

In negotiations, I heard many on these pages compare themselves to UPS and FedEx mechanics. I don't think I heard any comparisons to Southwest or Alaska. It would stand to reason that if AMFA was worth their weight, we'd be talking about the contracts of the AMFA represented members.

Go ahead, blow me away with their contracts and the value we'll be gaining by moving into an M&R-centric organization.

 

[swamt]

Article III, Section 16 AMFA 2012 Constitution: "It is AMFA’s philosophy that members shall discourage the working of overtime, especially when fellow mem­bers are furloughed."

LOL!! Are we to assume that your union encourages members to work overtime when other members are on furlough or lay-off? Are there AA mechanics working OT where they had a lay-off, rif, or furlough? This would be very sad indeed. If you are, then you are showing the company that YOU are willing to work the OT and the company sees no need to call back the members that were released as other members are willing to (step up for the company) stab their fellow member right in the back. That's how I see it. No-one should be working any OT at any station where there was rif's, lay-off's, and/or furloughs, period.

 

[swamt]

So your argument is that we should be in an M&R exclusive organization because others have them. It doesn't matter that they have an overwhelmingly small percentage of the total M&R membership to represent. It doesn't matter that even though they're an M&R-centric organization they haven't been successful in the 50 plus years they've been around. It doesn't matter that OTHER M&R groups tasted that water and decided to move on. It doesn't matter that they haven't been able to shoot past anyone else in the industry.

What matters is that they represent M&R almost exclusively.

In essence, you want an invitation to an exclusive Country Club just so you can say you're a member.

In negotiations, I heard many on these pages compare themselves to UPS and FedEx mechanics. I don't think I heard any comparisons to Southwest or Alaska. It would stand to reason that if AMFA was worth their weight, we'd be talking about the contracts of the AMFA represented members.

Go ahead, blow me away with their contracts and the value we'll be gaining by moving into an M&R-centric organization.

I see you only have about 100 postings so I will just assume you have only recently came to the discussions. They have been using SWA's, Alaska's, as well as UPS's contracts to compare to. And they use the crap out of SWA's/AMFA's contract to try and mirror from.

 

[1AA]

So your argument is that we should be in an M&R exclusive organization because others have them. It doesn't matter that they have an overwhelmingly small percentage of the total M&R membership to represent. It doesn't matter that even though they're an M&R-centric organization they haven't been successful in the 50 plus years they've been around. It doesn't matter that OTHER M&R groups tasted that water and decided to move on. It doesn't matter that they haven't been able to shoot past anyone else in the industry.

What matters is that they represent M&R almost exclusively.

In essence, you want an invitation to an exclusive Country Club just so you can say you're a member.

In negotiations, I heard many on these pages compare themselves to UPS and FedEx mechanics. I don't think I heard any comparisons to Southwest or Alaska. It would stand to reason that if AMFA was worth their weight, we'd be talking about the contracts of the AMFA represented members.

Go ahead, blow me away with their contracts and the value we'll be gaining by moving into an M&R-centric organization.

By reading your posts I feel like we are going back 10 years. You need to get up to speed by doing some research. You are behind on your thoughts and ideas. We are all past that. Flip your calendar of current events up to 2013 not 2003. Please do some research before you post.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

By having something like that in writing, it gives all the necessary ammunition for management to argue that there is a "job action" taking place. Not a really smart move.

If you want to carry on something like that, you can't put it in writing which can be used to get an injunction and take away its effectiveness.

Not only that, an organization should not try to force or pressure someone into avoiding OT without considering that Members personal situation. I understand the point you're trying to make, even if its flawed, but it shouldn't be something that's forced on someone.

BTW--"Old school" doesn't make it right. There is a need to adapt and update strategies that no longer work or have their intended outcomes.

NYer

Unless there is an emergency, O/T is not mandatory, as employees we can stay or go . Mgmt can ask and we can say no, it is not a job action. You're probably not an airline employee either. The company can't get an injunction for employees not working O/T.

Not doing your job, calling in sick, walkouts, these are things that can be done and the company has the right to seek and expect protection from unions. As long as both the company and the employees abide by the rules and guidelines set forth in the company regulations each party is acting legally.

No one should feel pressured not to work, but it's kind of a unwritten rule within the union. I understand that the NOW generation only care about themselves. That each persons situation can be looked at differently. If your financial situation is so bad that you require O/T just to survive you, should look for a better paying job or check your credit card activity. This would exclude medical reasons I get that before you throw that in.

By you saying employees should adapt that only shows me your are from the I Got Mine generation and that you care less about your coworkers.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

NYer,

This is a site in which AA employees and others from the airline industry can share thoughts about common points.

It is an assumption on my part here, but you are neither.

For you to put your two cents into something where you have no vested interest or clue as to what your talking about, is foolish.

Do us all a favor and go blog someplace else where you can pretend to have a say, and you won't look so uninformed.

 

[NYer]

LOL!! Are we to assume that your union encourages members to work overtime when other members are on furlough or lay-off? Are there AA mechanics working OT where they had a lay-off, rif, or furlough? This would be very sad indeed. If you are, then you are showing the company that YOU are willing to work the OT and the company sees no need to call back the members that were released as other members are willing to (step up for the company) stab their fellow member right in the back. That's how I see it. No-one should be working any OT at any station where there was rif's, lay-off's, and/or furloughs, period.

There's a difference between "should" and "must." In the end, these decisions should be made by the individual and not the institution.

 

[NYer]

I see you only have about 100 postings so I will just assume you have only recently came to the discussions. They have been using SWA's, Alaska's, as well as UPS's contracts to compare to. And they use the crap out of SWA's/AMFA's contract to try and mirror from.

I'm out here everyday. Show me the comparisons.

 

[NYer]

By reading your posts I feel like we are going back 10 years. You need to get up to speed by doing some research. You are behind on your thoughts and ideas. We are all past that. Flip your calendar of current events up to 2013 not 2003. Please do some research before you post.

So you can't engage in debate, the recourse is to go after me? Doesn't help your cause and doesn't convince anyone that the alternative you believe is better, is in fact better.

 

[NYer]

NYer

Unless there is an emergency, O/T is not mandatory, as employees we can stay or go . Mgmt can ask and we can say no, it is not a job action. You're probably not an airline employee either. The company can't get an injunction for employees not working O/T.

Not doing your job, calling in sick, walkouts, these are things that can be done and the company has the right to seek and expect protection from unions. As long as both the company and the employees abide by the rules and guidelines set forth in the company regulations each party is acting legally.

No one should feel pressured not to work, but it's kind of a unwritten rule within the union. I understand that the NOW generation only care about themselves. That each persons situation can be looked at differently. If your financial situation is so bad that you require O/T just to survive you, should look for a better paying job or check your credit card activity. This would exclude medical reasons I get that before you throw that in.

By you saying employees should adapt that only shows me your are from the I Got Mine generation and that you care less about your coworkers.

Well. When there are certain amount of OT hours worked on a consistent basis and that stops suddenly, coupled with the fact that the AMFA Constitution encourages not to work OT that constitutes a job action. You want try it...organize a OT ban today and see how quickly the reaction would be. Go ahead, try it.