But you signed a card for them to hold an election.
AMFA at AA- consolidated thread
- Thread starter TWU informer
- Start date
Show me the money
Advanced
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2011
- Messages
- 147
- Reaction score
- 237
Just read NMB's response letter. IF TRUE who was asleep at the switch at AMFA. American provided the list hours after the filing! Our last chance for AMFA is the appeal that must be filied prior to June 7th deadline as per the NMB. If we have any chance send letters to your representatives in congress.
I kind of wonder if any of the posters here on this forum are truly AMT's. We sit here and bash each other to no end. I can not see how a AMT who believes in his craft can support the Teamsters. We all agree we need to get rid of the TWU. Since last weeks filing many of you decided to vote for the Teamsters because AMFA failed to properly file with the NMB. OK so we all make errors in judgment from time to time. Does this mean we are to be isolated because we are human? The fact that AMFA will not be on the ballot has absolutely no affect on AMFAs intent to represent the M&R group at AA or any other airline. Ask yourself these questions with an open mind.
Does AMFAs constitution change in any way since the filing?
Does AMFA no longer hold its officers accountable?
Does AMFA not represent the same people it did before the filing?
Does AMFA no longer vote for their International officers?
Does AMFA no longer allow observers in negotiations?
Did AMFAs union dues change since the filing?
So what has changed in AMFAs philosophy since last weeks filing?
Nothing is my answer. What is yours?
So you want to take your anger out on AMFA by punishing yourself in the long run. Supporting the Teamsters is not the answer. Do you really know what the Teamsters is all about? Have you read any parts of their constitution? We all hate the TWU but the Teamsters has the same structure as the TWU. If you disagree read their constitution.
They appoint international officers. Same as the TWU.
They pay them triple digit salaries. Same as the TWU.
They make deals without membership approval. Same as the TWU.
Where they differ from the TWU is they charge more in union dues.
Do you know how much more?
TWU is 2 times base pay.
Teamsters is 2.5 times your base pay PLUS all premiums. (All inclusive)
They assign members to locals. They do not create new locals for new memberships.
We will NOT have our own Maintenance locals. TWU does.
Who will be the president of our local? Do you know?
Maybe a warehouse stock clerk or a bus driver.
Will we be voting on our ATD officers? NO!
They too are appointed. Same as the TWU.
So you want a change but yet you support a union that is the same as the TWU and charges more money in dues and will not give us our own locals. Is this what you really want?
So now comes the question. What do we do to rid ourselves of the Industrial unions?
Well first of all if there will be a vote do not vote for the TWU or the Teamsters. Do not vote for NO Union representation. So what does that leave us? The only logical choice for our class and craft.
The "WRITE IN" choice. NMB Representation Manual Ref. 13.203 says:
Internet "Voting.
After accessing the website, the voter enters his/her assigned Access Code. When the voter’s identity is confirmed, a ballot screen will appear for the election in which he/she is eligible to vote. The incumbent, the applicant, the intervenor, the “write-in” option, and the “no representative” option will be listed in descending order."
As you can see the NMB allows a WRITE IN option.
We as a collective group can excersise our right to choose who we feel is best for our profession. I suggest to everyone that is truly interested in a Class and Craft union and wants to rid themselves of the Industrial unions to use this option and Write In AMFA or Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association which ever the NMB allows. If we get enough Write In votes we can finally rid ourselves of the TWU and the Teamsters can take a hike. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the NMB manual especially section 13 and 14 which covers the voting process.
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/representation-manual.pdf
Take into consideration of all the oragnizers that spent many hours away from their families and spent their own money for all of us. These guys traveled to small out stations on their own time to get as little as 20 cards.
They believed in the fight to rid ourselves of the money sucking Industrial unions. The least you can do is appreciate the hard work and see what their hard work will bring us in rewards if we Write In AMFA on the ballot.
Do not let this opportunity slip us by. It is our future, lets work together and make it right. Vote AMFA on the Write In when you get your ballot.
Does AMFAs constitution change in any way since the filing?
Does AMFA no longer hold its officers accountable?
Does AMFA not represent the same people it did before the filing?
Does AMFA no longer vote for their International officers?
Does AMFA no longer allow observers in negotiations?
Did AMFAs union dues change since the filing?
So what has changed in AMFAs philosophy since last weeks filing?
Nothing is my answer. What is yours?
So you want to take your anger out on AMFA by punishing yourself in the long run. Supporting the Teamsters is not the answer. Do you really know what the Teamsters is all about? Have you read any parts of their constitution? We all hate the TWU but the Teamsters has the same structure as the TWU. If you disagree read their constitution.
They appoint international officers. Same as the TWU.
They pay them triple digit salaries. Same as the TWU.
They make deals without membership approval. Same as the TWU.
Where they differ from the TWU is they charge more in union dues.
Do you know how much more?
TWU is 2 times base pay.
Teamsters is 2.5 times your base pay PLUS all premiums. (All inclusive)
They assign members to locals. They do not create new locals for new memberships.
We will NOT have our own Maintenance locals. TWU does.
Who will be the president of our local? Do you know?
Maybe a warehouse stock clerk or a bus driver.
Will we be voting on our ATD officers? NO!
They too are appointed. Same as the TWU.
So you want a change but yet you support a union that is the same as the TWU and charges more money in dues and will not give us our own locals. Is this what you really want?
So now comes the question. What do we do to rid ourselves of the Industrial unions?
Well first of all if there will be a vote do not vote for the TWU or the Teamsters. Do not vote for NO Union representation. So what does that leave us? The only logical choice for our class and craft.
The "WRITE IN" choice. NMB Representation Manual Ref. 13.203 says:
Internet "Voting.
After accessing the website, the voter enters his/her assigned Access Code. When the voter’s identity is confirmed, a ballot screen will appear for the election in which he/she is eligible to vote. The incumbent, the applicant, the intervenor, the “write-in” option, and the “no representative” option will be listed in descending order."
As you can see the NMB allows a WRITE IN option.
We as a collective group can excersise our right to choose who we feel is best for our profession. I suggest to everyone that is truly interested in a Class and Craft union and wants to rid themselves of the Industrial unions to use this option and Write In AMFA or Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association which ever the NMB allows. If we get enough Write In votes we can finally rid ourselves of the TWU and the Teamsters can take a hike. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the NMB manual especially section 13 and 14 which covers the voting process.
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/representation-manual.pdf
Take into consideration of all the oragnizers that spent many hours away from their families and spent their own money for all of us. These guys traveled to small out stations on their own time to get as little as 20 cards.
They believed in the fight to rid ourselves of the money sucking Industrial unions. The least you can do is appreciate the hard work and see what their hard work will bring us in rewards if we Write In AMFA on the ballot.
Do not let this opportunity slip us by. It is our future, lets work together and make it right. Vote AMFA on the Write In when you get your ballot.
Anomaly
Veteran
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2012
- Messages
- 1,220
- Reaction score
- 218
In response to the above posted on multiple pages....
good point, but now ask yourself this too....
Does this little blunder from amfa create an example of what to expect in the future? Take a look at the disasters they have created at other airlines and you will most likely and accurately guess YUP !.
This type of failure by amfa is exactly what you can expect from the association. Now ask yourself, is it worth it?
Constitutions are not contracts with employers, nor do they generate wages or benefits. At the end of the day, ask yourself what really matters most for you and your family. The union constitution, or the negotiated contract? Can you trust amfa now that they showed you how badly they can f**k up a simple thing like a deadline? Mostly, look at the blame they are assigning for their little mistake. Can you trust an association who will not own their errors?
We learned at UA and removed amfa after ONLY 4 YEARS and 9 MONTHS of experiencing their disastrous representation . Think about that while you take the time to vote.
amfa FAILED
good point, but now ask yourself this too....
Does this little blunder from amfa create an example of what to expect in the future? Take a look at the disasters they have created at other airlines and you will most likely and accurately guess YUP !.
This type of failure by amfa is exactly what you can expect from the association. Now ask yourself, is it worth it?
Constitutions are not contracts with employers, nor do they generate wages or benefits. At the end of the day, ask yourself what really matters most for you and your family. The union constitution, or the negotiated contract? Can you trust amfa now that they showed you how badly they can f**k up a simple thing like a deadline? Mostly, look at the blame they are assigning for their little mistake. Can you trust an association who will not own their errors?
We learned at UA and removed amfa after ONLY 4 YEARS and 9 MONTHS of experiencing their disastrous representation . Think about that while you take the time to vote.
amfa FAILED
TWU informer
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2003
- Messages
- 7,550
- Reaction score
- 3,731
Unlike you I can accept a membership ballot and the outcome the members desire.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2003
- Messages
- 7,550
- Reaction score
- 3,731
Why are you all so against holding elections? If your Union is doing a good job or has a stellar track record then why fear a vote?
I view a vote by the members as either a vote of confidence favoring current Union, or they kick their asses to the curb and get a replacement.
I really can only think of one reason incumbent or challenging Union would be against signing cards and voting. And that would be because they suck and they know it.
Well maybe one more reason. Because you're a bunch of Communist Bastards opposed to democractic voting and want dictators.
To answer some of your responses.
Does this little blunder from amfa create an example of what to expect in the future?
Irrelevant. Since all unions make blunders. TWU in my experience is the worst. How are things at UAL/CAL moving along? Over three years with the IBT and still no seniority integration and no JCBA in place. CAL hires off the street and UAL has guys on Furlough. IBT allowing this to happen. How many all Aircraft Maintenance locals does UAL/CAL have? Joe Prisco made a video in a meeting explaining the split locals in SFO. Guys being ASSIGNED to a LAX local and work in SFO because IBT needs the dues money in LAX. Great representation. Sounds like a blunder to me. AMFA would not allow this because their officers are held accountable.
You keep mentioning about ASSOCIATION. Do you feel a association is not a union?
I do not know where you are going with that one.
IBT is a brotherhood, IAM is a association, ALPA is a association, AFA is a association, APA is a association. Should I Google a list of unions that have the word association in them?
So who are they blaming as you stated?
I read Louie Key's statement and a letter came my way from Don Rodgers. They both state the NMB rules locked AMFA out from filing. I did not read that they blamed the NMB for following their own rules. A set back yes but they did not blame the NMB or the organizers. So once again we will follow the NMB rules by using the "WRITIE - IN" option. That will put AMFA on the ballot and we will vote them in. This was the plan from the beginning. This is what the members at AA wanted in the first place. So it will happen as per the NMB rules that are in place.
So you removed AMFA in 4 years and 9 months. You also removed the IAM. Now you have the IBT and from what I read you guys are unhappy with them as well. So who is next to represent you when you remove the IBT? Back to IAM or back to AMFA or maybe you should try the TWU. We had great success with them since 1946. Proven track record. BTW if you go with the TWU you will get a automatic pay raise. Your dues will be lower. Only 2 times your base pay instead of the current 2.5 times all inclusive.
So has AMFA been the only Union or Association as you keep referring too that has made mistakes? NO. We all make mistakes and we move on. Funny how we never hear any bad information coming out of SWA or Alaska. Now why is that?
Class and Craft is the way to go. AMFA is the only one for us. You just hate AMFA for personal reasons but fail to open your eyes to the Industrial unions way of screwing over the skilled members of the M&R group.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2003
- Messages
- 7,550
- Reaction score
- 3,731
I will write in AMFA but doubt we get a ballot.
Topcat187
Senior
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2012
- Messages
- 346
- Reaction score
- 170
That will lead us to a whole other set of circumstances, but you may be right.... We may not even see a vote.
Assuming we get a vote writing in AMFA is exactly what we all wanted. A class and craft union. So what is the problem if we put AMFA on the ballot and vote them in. Lets all finish what we started with the AMFA drive and use the WRITE IN option. It is our right and option to exercise. So lets do it and get this over with. We need to move on and deal with the merger and the issues tied to it. Do we need another distraction? NO!
Use the WRITE IN option.
Use the WRITE IN option.
i agree 110%
Are you thinking that the IBT filed with too-few cards? Why would they do that? The coordination with AA was remarkable - what with AA providing the lists just minutes or hours after IBT filed.
Of course, many of the IBT cards may be forgeries. But assuming they have 50% (including the forgeries), then why make a fuss about the forgeries? Simply organize everyone to write-in AMFA and the IBT is shut out.
FrugalFlyerv2.0
Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2003
- Messages
- 2,931
- Reaction score
- 3,341
You're assuming there are enough people to support AMFA besides the vocal few posters on here. There has got to be a reason why AMFA delayed / stalled etc., with filing their cards... ... ... up to the point where IBT was able to beat them. All this talk on here about how great the AMFA drive is going, seems to have been just that, talk. If not, and the love for the AMFA is real, then why did the AMFA organizers waste / stall / hesitate in filing? The only logical reason is that the support is just not there.
The support for AMFA has been and will always be here at AA. The reason AMFA didn't file was not because they didn't have enough cards, but to gain even more of a cushion. With each passing day, more potential voters were dropping off the eligibility to vote list, and more AMFA authorization cards were being signed by people who changed their minds. In other words, having more cards than the Teamsters really wasn't the main concern, having enough cards to overcome the exaggerated list of eligible voters the company and the TWU would provide to the NMB was. Like they did the last time!
What the TWU and IBT did, ought to serve as eye opener to all M & R at AA. In essence, they stole the ability for a fair vote - not for the memberships behalf, but for their own personal gain. We should be able to make up our own minds on who we vote for to represent us! The Teamsters took that away!
