Amfa/agw

[Checking it Out]

Can anyone post who is running for local 12 positions? I dont see them listed on their website! Can you also post the by-laws and duties of each position?

 

[Bill]

twuer, if the situation was at AMFA I believe the members would remove the person. NOT National. But then why would someone who is elected want to remove another elected official? I bet President Bush would like nothing better than to have John Kerry removed from office. But in democracy that is not how things work. That is why the twu is NOT democratic.

Bob Owens repeatedly spoke with the twu international about problems in our craft and was removed from office. It was not "trash" that Bob brought forward. It was the truth in the twu's short comings. Bob took the oath to protect the membership. He did that. WHY would sonny and little not listen to Bob?

Why is there even an AGW? Because Rampers want democracy too. Why are there no twu.iam.ibt drives at the airlines AMFA represents? Because the members there want democracy. At the last Tulsa debate that the twu refused to attend, although they sent a coffin to stand in for them, Dell told the audience that an ant-AMFA supporter tried to state that AMFA was bad because two AMFA presidents were recalled from office. And how did that make Dell feel. (I'm not sure if both presidents in question were from the same airline or not.) Dell replied that it made him feel good that AMFA is working because democracy worked. These two presidents were RECALLED by their respective membership and the new presidents are doing their job representing their members.

The reverse takes place at AA. Bob and Chuck are examples of the twu's socialistic ways. There was no dual unionism here. That was a pretense on the twu's part. Chuck was the ONLY President that was man enough to tell little and gang he would not sign a letter not in his hand writing. He offered to write one in his own words but was turned down. As far as I am concerned Chuck Schalk is the only President that is willing to stand up for his beliefs and fight for his membership.

Our profession needs more men like Bob & Chuck. They are not afraid to state their name and beliefs and fight for not only their membership but OUR entire craft!

That's the biggest load of crap I've heard from you in a while Ken!!! No offense to you personally but you know as well as I do that Delle would NEVER stand for one (or 2 or 3 or 4) of his PAID officers to preach TWU while holding the position of an amfa officer. Sorry pal, just ain't buyin' it!!!! That's not the way organizations are run. Call it being a traitor or whatever, but it's wrong and you know it. Quit trying to make excuses for Bob and Chuck and Princess Judy and I forget the other traitors name. They DID NOT (DO NOT) deserve to hold an official TWU position. Resign your position, then preach whatever the hell you want!!!

 

[Bill]

Can anyone post who is running for local 12 positions? I dont see them listed on their website! Can you also post the by-laws and duties of each position?

ELECTIONS?????? WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO PAY FOR THAT?????? :huh: DELLE????? NOT LIKELY!!! I HEAR IS HAS BEEN BEGGIN' FOR MORE MONEY!!!!

No wonder you guys are always crying about having no money. The TWU isn't at fault there. It's amfa. They're draining you associate members dry!!!!!!!

 

[Bill]

I totally agree with you Ken, Chuck and Bob got the shaft and I do not think they deserved it, I know Chuck and when he was an Officer he was not an AMFA Organizer he was a TWU Officer that was trying to help his membership, he bacame an AMFA Organizer when he was wrongfully removed from Office and thought that he could no longer help from within the TWU.

Okay Raptor. . . .I BELIEVE THE QUESTION HAS ALREADY BEEN ASKED BUT I WILL ASK IT AGAIN. . . . .WHAT WOULD DELLE HAVE DONE IF GIVEN THE SAME SITUATION AT AMFA???????

 

[Raptor]

Okay Raptor. . . .I BELIEVE THE QUESTION HAS ALREADY BEEN ASKED BUT I WILL ASK IT AGAIN. . . . .WHAT WOULD DELLE HAVE DONE IF GIVEN THE SAME SITUATION AT AMFA???????

Bill I don't know what Bob and some of the others were removed for other than what he has posted before as I have never actually talked to Bob, but for Chuck he was removed because he kept his membership informed of what was going on he let them know more than the International leaders wanted them to know also he would not sign a letter that he did not write, he was removed for nothing more than this, I am not going to stay on this subject and continue to defend those guys as I know Bob come's here all the time and they can defend themselves, but this is my opinion on the matter, so as for what would Delle do, I do not believe he would do anything cause nothing was done that should not have been done, if you know something specific that we do not know on the matter then do tell. <_<

And I don't mean General statements of dual Unionism I mean specific things that they supposeadly did.

 

[Raptor]

I am really really surprised Dave is not on here as he lives on these boards, I mean he only has 800 posts and that is only on this new 4th Alias from March of this year and only on this 1 board, who knows about all the other boards.

As I said some people have NO life, I have a mere 340 posts total from the time that I joined this board back in Sep. 03 and I have had only 1 Alias. this whole time.
but hey I have a LIFE so I don't have time to spend all my time on these stupid boards slamming on people. 😱

 

[Bill]

Bill I don't know what Bob and some of the others were removed for other than what he has posted before as I have never actually talked to Bob, but for Chuck he was removed because he kept his membership informed of what was going on he let them know more than the International leaders wanted them to know also he would not sign a letter that he did not write, he was removed for nothing more than this, I am not going to stay on this subject and continue to defend those guys as I know Bob come's here all the time and they can defend themselves, but this is my opinion on the matter, so as for what would Delle do, I do not believe he would do anything cause nothing was done that should not have been done, if you know something specific that we do not know on the matter then do tell. <_<

And I don't mean General statements of dual Unionism I mean specific things that they supposeadly did.

I don't believe dual unionism is a general statement Raptor. Bob and Chuck are AMFA through and through and EVERYONE knows that!!! Now you can defend their actions all you want but Bob and Chuck preached (and still preach) amfa and attempted to increase amfa's card number by soliciting amfa while holding an officer position with the TWU. B]. Do you not see anything wrong with that???

Like I said, Delle (AMFA) would NEVER put up with that so why do you think the TWU should? They can sell amfa just not while as a representative of the TWU. It's common sense that many do not see or they make no attempt to see. It's pretty black and white, cut and dry or however else you want to put it. IT'S DAMN WRONG!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

That's the biggest load of crap I've heard from you in a while Ken!!! No offense to you personally but you know as well as I do that Delle would NEVER stand for one (or 2 or 3 or 4) of his PAID officers to preach TWU while holding the position of an amfa officer. Sorry pal, just ain't buyin' it!!!! That's not the way organizations are run. Call it being a traitor or whatever, but it's wrong and you know it. Quit trying to make excuses for Bob and Chuck and Princess Judy and I forget the other traitors name. They DID NOT (DO NOT) deserve to hold an official TWU position. Resign your position, then preach whatever the hell you want!!!

Bill, post one example of either Chuck or I preaching AMFA while we were in office.

I have to correct Ken in one respect, I did what I did for all my members, not just my fellow mechanics. We also represented stock clerks and to this day I still have a very good rapore with them. They still come to me when they have union related questions.

As far as criticizing Little , Gless and Yingst, all officials who are not elected by the members, that is my right. Its what is known as free speach.The only way they can be removed is if Sonny decides to remove them. If nobody complains about them why would Sonny remove them?

Let me ask you this. What is more important doing what is morally right, what people trusted you to do or blindly following the dictates of some appointed sell out, who may be taking bribes and be more worried about the performance of investments that provide his inflated pension than the members he was appointed to represent?

These guys sold us out, yet you are still loyal to them. They removed me because I was showing everyone what they were. Time and time again I tried to push for improvements to the TWU. I spent countless hours looking into bringing in accountable, accurate electronic voting for the Convention, argueing the merits of direct election of officers and providing the members with recall. On my own time I met with Local 100 to plan and strategize for changes to the TWU. I also attended meetings with the AUD. I had written to Sonny Hall repeatedly telling him why our members wanted AMFA and what he needed to do to satify their needs. And in May of 2003 I met with Sonny in his office, three months after some of the supposedly Pro-AMFA postings were made yet Sonny said nothing about them. Sonny made the charges yet he refused to face me in his own Kangaroo court.

You act as if Sonny paid us. The fact is that we were paid by our members from Local funds, with the exception of the President who was paid by the company with company funds to do Union Business. Why should the representatives of the members not be allowed to criticize someone who the members cant vote for or against and who has control over their contract? The members also pay Sonnys salary, yet they cant fire him. According to you, the people that they can elect should not be allowed to criticize him either. What is he? The Pope? Infallable in all union decisions? How could you possibly call the TWU a Democratic union? Do you know what the word means?

Who are you to determine who "deserves" to hold an official TWU position? That decision should be left to the members shouldnt it? Why should someone who is not elected by the members determine who "deserves" to represent them? The members made their choice, without misrepresentation and on an even platform they chose Chuck and I by an overwheling majority.

 

[Bob Owens]

I don't believe dual unionism is a general statement Raptor. Bob and Chuck are AMFA through and through and EVERYONE knows that!!! Now you can defend their actions all you want but Bob and Chuck preached (and still preach) amfa and attempted to increase amfa's card number by soliciting amfa while holding an officer position with the TWU. B]. Do you not see anything wrong with that???

Like I said, Delle (AMFA) would NEVER put up with that so why do you think the TWU should? They can sell amfa just not while as a representative of the TWU. It's common sense that many do not see or they make no attempt to see. It's pretty black and white, cut and dry or however else you want to put it. IT'S DAMN WRONG!!!

I don't believe dual unionism is a general statement Raptor.

So tell us exactly what you think dual unionism is and exactly what we did that constitutes it.

Bob and Chuck are AMFA through and through and EVERYONE knows that!!!

We are now. Why shouldnt we be?

Now you can defend their actions all you want but Bob and Chuck preached (and still preach) amfa and attempted to increase amfa's card number by soliciting amfa while holding an officer position with the TWU. B].

What proof do you have? Besides we were not even charged with that.


Like I said, Delle (AMFA) would NEVER put up with that so why do you think the TWU should?

How do you know what Delle would put up with? Have you met the man? If so, maybe you should post a disclaimer and apology for having met him as Chuck was told to do.You still have not posted anything to support your claims.

They can sell amfa just not while as a representative of the TWU.

Like I said, so far the TWU has presented no proof that I was selling AMFA. I was selling democratric accountability, I was selling membership control of the contract. I was selling the idea that the person who is in control of our contract should be elected by us. I was selling the idea that if such an unelected person misleads the members, then promises a revote then decides to put the contract in place anyway when more than likely they would have rejected it that the members should be able to remove that person. These concepts appear to be so foreign to the TWU International that if someone sells them they are automatically assumed by the TWU International, and all the Local suck ups who are praying for an International appointment to be selling AMFA.

It's common sense that many do not see or they make no attempt to see. It's pretty black and white, cut and dry or however else you want to put it. IT'S DAMN WRONG!!!

And lying to and misleading the members like the TWU International did is right?

 

[RUM@AA]

The president was removed due to his own actions and those same actions being against the TWU protocol. He was removed by the E-Board. A petition is useless when a man is guilty, you should know this first hand.

Zieg Heil!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Bob,

"I have to correct Ken in one respect, I did what I did for all my members, not just my fellow mechanics. We also represented stock clerks and to this day I still have a very good rapore with them. They still come to me when they have union related questions."

When I say "mechanics" I do not mean only mechanics. I hope that all reading my posts, on all the threads I contribute to, understand that I am implying all in our craft & class.

As for Stock Clerks I too believe they should be in our Craft & Class. They are an integral part of aircraft maintenance and make our jobs much easier to perform.

bill,

"That's the biggest load of crap I've heard from you in a while Ken!!! No offense to you personally but you know as well as I do that Delle would NEVER stand for one (or 2 or 3 or 4) of his PAID officers to preach TWU while holding the position of an amfa officer. Sorry pal, just ain't buyin' it!!!!"

No offense taken. However, I have met Dell and believe he strongly believes in democracy. Why else would he and two other AMTs at AA have created AMFA in the beginning? AMFA was at first a Watch Dog group. If you seriously doubt my response perhaps you could e-mail Dell himself and ask the question directly. Unlike your appointed atd leader Dell will answer you. Or had you attended one of the debates or attended one of the rallys AMFA sponsored you could have asked him man to man.
As for loads of crap all I can see in that regard is the twu and company inflating the eligibility lists given to the NMB.

 

[Raptor]

Bob,

"I have to correct Ken in one respect, I did what I did for all my members, not just my fellow mechanics. We also represented stock clerks and to this day I still have a very good rapore with them. They still come to me when they have union related questions."

When I say "mechanics" I do not mean only mechanics. I hope that all reading my posts, on all the threads I contribute to, understand that I am implying all in our craft & class.

As for Stock Clerks I too believe they should be in our Craft & Class. They are an integral part of aircraft maintenance and make our jobs much easier to perform.

bill,

"That's the biggest load of crap I've heard from you in a while Ken!!! No offense to you personally but you know as well as I do that Delle would NEVER stand for one (or 2 or 3 or 4) of his PAID officers to preach TWU while holding the position of an amfa officer. Sorry pal, just ain't buyin' it!!!!"

No offense taken. However, I have met Dell and believe he strongly believes in democracy. Why else would he and two other AMTs at AA have created AMFA in the beginning? AMFA was at first a Watch Dog group. If you seriously doubt my response perhaps you could e-mail Dell himself and ask the question directly. Unlike your appointed atd leader Dell will answer you. Or had you attended one of the debates or attended one of the rallys AMFA sponsored you could have asked him man to man.
As for loads of crap all I can see in that regard is the twu and company inflating the eligibility lists given to the NMB.

Personally I would like to see ONLY Mechanics in the Mechanic craft and class nobody else, that is why I like AMFA because there are less people in it that are not Mechanics, We cannot dictate who is considered part of our craft that like many things is left up to the NMB but I would very much like it if Mechanics ONLY were able to be in a Union of their own.
That is my opinion on Craft and Class

 

[Bill]

Oh Bobby, you can justify it all you want. . .it still comes out to be wrong!!!!

You say you weren't preaching amfa while holding a TWU position??? Now why would you lie like that when all I have to do is pull up some old posts written in your hand Bob? Isn't that some of what was used against you to oust your sorry butt???? Just ask and I'll dig some up. I checked a few yesterday, just didn't have time to cut and paste them all!! If you would like to look for yourself as a reminder, you can start with page 71, I believe, of your past posts. (you have 99 pages of posts Bob. . . amazing!!!!)

Anyway you look at it you are a Benedict Arnold!!!! You and Schaulk and those others who decided to to turn red-coat!!!

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

Oh Bobby, you can justify it all you want. . .it still comes out to be wrong!!!!

You say you weren't preaching amfa while holding a TWU position??? Now why would you lie like that when all I have to do is pull up some old posts written in your hand Bob? Isn't that some of what was used against you to oust your sorry butt???? Just ask and I'll dig some up. I checked a few yesterday, just didn't have time to cut and paste them all!! If you would like to look for yourself as a reminder, you can start with page 71, I believe, of your past posts. (you have 99 pages of posts Bob. . . amazing!!!!)

Anyway you look at it you are a Benedict Arnold!!!! You and Schaulk and those others who decided to to turn red-coat!!!

Over history many have "defected" from communist rule. I'm sure many more are to come!! These people will do whatever it takes to rid ourselves of the twu cancer, just like the company will do anything to protect its lap-dog union. If the twu was good at anything but concessions, we wouldn't be having this debate!! Pull your head out of the liquor cabinet and you'll see that the AMFA movement is alive and well!!

Keep the Faith........AMFA NOW!!!!!!!!

 

[Bill]

These people will do whatever it takes to rid ourselves of the twu cancer, just like the company will do anything to protect its lap-dog union.


So, I guess you have just admitted to the thousands of folks who read these posts, that AMFA is just as bad as the company when it comes right down to it???!! We all know how the company "plays". You amfa pukes can't stop crying about them!!!! But guess what??? We at the TWU already knew that amfa was bad!!! Now we have proof from an AMFA supporter!!!

THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP FOR US!!!!


LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD. . . . . AMFA SUCKS!!!!

AND BOBBY OWENS IS STILL WRONG!!!!!