Like APA was going to give us the J/S before AE and any other airline pilot. Yet APA wanted ours before AE F/A's, so that isn't exactly an "empty" J/S. You claim it was APFA that screwed that up, hummmm. Did APA even talk to APFA about it? NO, they claim it isn't even ours to give. Once again nice try. You fail to mention the deadheading priority over us(dom and intl) and your guaranteed F/C A1 deadhead and B/C A3 deadhead. Once again that screws F/A's.
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American's DFW-PEK Application in Jeopardy
- Thread starter Cosmo
- Start date
ILS2MINIMUMS
Member
- Dec 12, 2006
- 73
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I don't know where you're getting your information, but the AE thing is patently false... APA was seeking the jumpseat ONLY if it would've otherwise gone empty, meaning: AFTER EVERYONE ELSE WHO WAS ENTITLED TO IT, INCLUDING OFF-LINE JUMPSEATERS WITH WHOM AA HAS RECIPROCAL AGREEMENTS (Jetblue and SWA).
If you want to think that a captain getting a FC seat to deadhead is screwing a flight attendant, well, I don't have an argument for that, other than you're simply envious and looking to pick a fight where there isn't one...
By the way, the APA didn't have to talk to APFA about the JS because it doesn't belong to them... It belongs to AA just like the cockpit JS... APA negotiates with the company, not APFA...
Here's an idea, why don't you spend some of this time emailing APFA and telling THEM to negotiate whatever it is you feel you're entitled to? You'll find out that if you want to deadhead in FC, you're gonna have to give something up for it, kinda like the APA giving up the 16 hour clause in their contract for it.
No envy here. I just don't think any one group should get priority over the other. All the pilots have to do is sign in before we do. Problem solved. No special treatment. Or go to a strict seniority order. I know APA would never go for that, because they would probably be farther down the list than if the just woke up an hour earlier. Please go back and read APA's proposal, no where does it mention AE, it only mentions that pilots would not go before AA F/A's. Therefore, one could surmise that that means before anyone else. Common courtesy would have been to talk with APFA and work it out that way. Your arrogant leadership didn't and now they look like a$$'s in the media for trying to strong arm AA and ending up red faced. By the tone of your previous post, you fall right into the group of most pilots who don't get it. You think everything is all about you and you don't seem to like reality. APA obviously wants the deadheading priority and premium cabin guarantee because they can't stand that a F/A might get the seat over them. Just like the Domicile chair from LGA(I think it was) said, Pilots don't like to be treated "equal". Hey, if you want to act like an a$$, I have no problem treating you like an a$$.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,945
- 9,372
Sorry, sir, but if you take off the blinders for a moment, CO's application has been the favorite all along, followed by a tie between UA's IAD-PEK and AA's DFW-PEK.
This has pretty much assured UA of getting the second authority, leaving AA to hope for a backup award.
I wonder how CAL does their boarding priority? UA is strictly seniority; deadhead, js, passride...period.
Interesting, if CO or UA gets the route, I guess in a merge, they both win it.
The pilots should never have acted so greedy. The application DID look good until they pushed it over the cliff.
Interesting, if CO or UA gets the route, I guess in a merge, they both win it.
The pilots should never have acted so greedy. The application DID look good until they pushed it over the cliff.
ILS2MINIMUMS
Member
- Dec 12, 2006
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My information regarding our proposal comes straight from Ralph Hunter's mouth at yesterday's MIA domicile meeting. He specifically said the agreement would've been that we would gain access AFTER eveyone else entitled to it. There's no use explaining that to you any further, you obviously don't give a poop about facts, they just cloud your blind rage.
The APA doesn't really care what you "think" about what priority they attempted to negotiate for the pilots. Are you just as indignant that upper management gets to non-rev positive space, or are you just gooned up over the pilots attempt to garner something? If you want it, go negotiate for it. Believe me, your chance is coming. When APA caves and has another concessionary contract shoved down it's throat, AMR will be coming after you. They think you're over-paid and under-worked just like they think the pilots are...
The tone of my previous post was obviously taken incorrectly by you because you can't see past the ball of venom surrounding your every thought regarding pilots... My take on it is this: You'd rather get spun up over what the pilots want rather than going out and getting what you want... Just so we're clear, I WANT FLIGHT ATTENDANTS TO RIDE OUR COCKPIT JUMPSEATS!!!! I AM MARRIED TO A FLIGHT ATTENDANT!!! I don't really care if APA gets "your" jumpseat because I don't commute, I don't non-rev, and I mainly travel on other airlines when I have to go somewhere because Eagle is generally oversold or weight-restricted...
As far as what APA wants, I don't care... I'm as disconnected from them as you obviously are from the APFA. Why Hunter asked for the things he did, I don't know, and I'm not one to wildly speculate or throw asinine accusations around. All I know is this, the route will probably go to someone else and it's not the pilot's fault. If you have been around AMR as long I'm guessing you've been, it should be easy to see what's happening, but instead, your hatred for the pilots is causing you to fall for it hook, line, and sinker...
Are you completely sure about that quote from the LGA chair, or are you just operating under the assumption that because you heard it in the galley it must be true?
Treat us like an a$$? It doesn't bother me, I just generally roll my eyes when I get attitude from someone who choses to judge me by the career I've chosen rather than who I am..
I am not blined by anything. Almost everyone, except pilots, think APA screwed themselves and the company. Do I care? Not as much as you think. Did AA start all this as you claim? ABSOLUTELY NOT. APA started all the ill will and the self destruction of the PEK application. Most everyone else sees it for what it is, except you and most other pilots. Like I said before, ask for what you want. Just don't be shocked when you don't get it and don't be shocked that other work groups get pi$$ed when you try to step all over them. It seems like APA picked the wrong issue to be indignant about. Plus they outright tried to stab the F/A's in the back with their attempted land grab. I guess you will never get it, but it is hard to get reality through thick skulls. Just fyi, I re-read the LOA sent to M. Burdette. It specifically states if an AA F/A is not occupying that J/S ,working or not, any AA pilot can occupy that J/S in seniority order. Where does it state that APA will follow any and all existing J/S agreements we have? If you no longer have acess to the APA website, ask your F/A wife to show you off the APFA website. The LOA is there for us to see. Happy reading. By the way the comment that APA's issue with this deadheading priority and J/S issue started when AA started to treat all employees equal in the late 1990's. Pretty arrogant don't you think. Once again this is on the APFA website. Just ask your wife for access.
A Northwest Airlines executive said Tuesday that the carrier still is fighting to win federal approval for nonstop flights between Detroit and Shanghai, but she also indicated a willingness to share the new route to China with Continental or United airlines.
Andrea Fischer Newman, Northwest's senior vice president for government affairs, said in an interview with the Star Tribune that Northwest could operate three flights a week to Shanghai, instead of seven, under such an arrangement.
One of the other airlines could provide service to China from a different U.S. city on the other days.
The rare overture reflects how hotly contested the new China route has been among Northwest, Continental, United and American. A decision by the U.S. Department of Transportation is expected this month.
story here
Andrea Fischer Newman, Northwest's senior vice president for government affairs, said in an interview with the Star Tribune that Northwest could operate three flights a week to Shanghai, instead of seven, under such an arrangement.
One of the other airlines could provide service to China from a different U.S. city on the other days.
The rare overture reflects how hotly contested the new China route has been among Northwest, Continental, United and American. A decision by the U.S. Department of Transportation is expected this month.
story here
United Airlines asked federal officials Wednesday to block an effort by American Airlines to change its proposal for new service to China.
United said American's request to add a Chicago stopover on its proposed Dallas-to-Beijing flights broke the U.S. Transportation Department's rules for deciding who gets the new China route.
United said American's request to add a Chicago stopover on its proposed Dallas-to-Beijing flights broke the U.S. Transportation Department's rules for deciding who gets the new China route.
ILS2MINIMUMS
Member
- Dec 12, 2006
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ok, just for grins, what exactly do you think the APA should've done? The givebacks of the pilots at this airline are monumental by any standards and by far outweigh any other work group on the property. The pilots concession in 2003 was greater than anyone else's and we took those concessions from a sub-standard industry contract while APFA and TWU took their pay and benefit cuts from industry-leading contracts. Our reserve system sucks (almost completely negating seniority), our TTOT system is a farce, the pay only seems good because our competitors were repeatedly raped in Bankruptcy proceedings, and the list goes on... Here's a stat for you (provided to MIA pilots by the Negotiating committee yesterday), in order to get JUST GET BACK to 2003 wages, adjusted for inflation, we are going to have to negotiate a raise in the vicinity of 33%... Again, in 2003 we didn't have the industry-leading contract you enjoyed. And keep in mind that in 2003 AA pilots had NEVER received a raise that equalled inflation since deregulation in 1979.
So, if you were queen for a day at APA what would you have asked for in the face of another "gratis" concession? The route was important and if the company wanted it, they simply had to negotiate or at least be reasonable... Remember 1993? Can you honestly say you think AMR is reasonable, ever? I'm sick of giving money and work rules back to AMR so they can reward the top 1000 managers with obscene bonuses with our money.
You hate pilots so much, but the venom should really be directed at CenterPort. Those are the robberbarons who are truly the enemy. They live by a simple latin creed: Divide et impera (Divide and rule). The pilots try to get back some of the things they've lost and everybody hates them for it. Management rewards themselves with 100 million dollars last Spring, and close to double that next Spring, they ride around on positive-space A3 travel, and no one bats an eye..
You want something, go negotiate for it, but don't be surprised when your turn comes around and the pilots you despise so much don't have any sympathy for you.
Alright, AA offered APA Delta pilot pay in 2001 during negotiations, APA said no. That is not my fault, blame APA. APA chose more money concessions over greater furloughs and more changes to work rules. We chose less money give backs and more work rule changes. Our pay adjusted for inflation would probably be close to 20%. Just a guess. It was originally 15.6%. Trust me when I say I have no love for centreport, but they didn't do this. APA did, so that is an extension of you a pilot. I will say it again, negotiate what you want, just don't try to steamroll other work groups and ignore their existing agreements. Did you honestly think these elitist ideas were well thought out and obtainable?
I will never ask APA for any sympathy nor would I want it. I would never want my union to try and screw any other work group on the property to further it's elitist ideas either. I can't understand why that is so hard for you to understand. Oh wait, are you going to tell me I am envious of you again? Please.
I will never ask APA for any sympathy nor would I want it. I would never want my union to try and screw any other work group on the property to further it's elitist ideas either. I can't understand why that is so hard for you to understand. Oh wait, are you going to tell me I am envious of you again? Please.
ILS2MINIMUMS
Member
- Dec 12, 2006
- 73
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I heard about the stupid APA requests at probably the same time you did. Not only did I not approve of them, I thought it was short-sighted to only ask for a few magic beans when clearly we had some new-found bargaining capital. I think we should've waited and let the company come to us with something other than, "we need this, wanna give it to us"?
Even if I don't give a crap about any of the things in the request (and I truly don't), if they were all that was standing in the way of AMR getting China, then AMR screwed up. Even if APA would've asked for birthday cakes and a pony, if AMR wanted the route, they simply had to discuss it with them rather than dismiss it out-of-hand.
PSSST. your union did screw another work group to further it's own elitest ideas... ever hear of TWA flight attendants... Tell your story walkin'.
AC AA LA FA
Veteran
AA out of the running for Beijing route
(almost official)
(almost official)
Yep, we srewed them alright. Full pay, benefits, vacation bids and full seniority in STL. The staple job was formulated and voiced before 9-11 and used for the 2 most recent purchases as well, so If that is your opinion, then so be it. What ever happend to the pilots junior to approxiamtely #400 TWA? Are they all gainfully employed by AA? This is exactly what doesn't need to be beaten to death on here again. Glad to hear that you agree that APA's requests were stupid, enough said. Discussion over.
ILS2MINIMUMS
Member
- Dec 12, 2006
- 73
- 0
