American Airlines Submits Application to U.S. Department of Transportation to Operate Service Betwee

[700UW]

DFW-NRT is a 777.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I doubt this would come to fruition, and I KNOW Eolesen will be all over me like   S  on  S  for even suggesting it, BUT, how I'd Love to see the  BIG  DOG  purchase  a half dozen  B747-800 Intecontinental jets, and dress them up  ' to the nines'  to flaunt under DL's  nose to the Orient, out of  LAX.     It would  END any DOT discussion about what Asian Route authority  AA gets !
 
(Boy, if (uncle) Bobby CRANDALL was still around, he'd get those   ' 6 BAD  BOYS'  for a song from Boeing, just like he told Airbus he WANTED to RENT the A-300-600's) ( He got what he wanted OF COURSE )  !!!

 

[robbedagain]

NHBB  I dont think the 747-8 will be produced much longer as most airlines around the world are opting for the 787s and 777s even the newest models of both types    Even the A380 looks to be dying out      In the end I believe that the DOT will have to make changes given how the airlines promise to start with say 777 or 744 then down size it later   Its really matching demand 

 

[topDawg]

DFW-NRT is a 777.

NRT is Japan, not China. 
 

I doubt this would come to fruition, and I KNOW Eolesen will be all over me like   S  on  S  for even suggesting it, BUT, how I'd Love to see the  BIG  DOG  purchase  a half dozen  B747-800 Intecontinental jets, and dress them up  ' to the nines'  to flaunt under DL's  nose to the Orient, out of  LAX.     It would  END any DOT discussion about what Asian Route authority  AA gets !
 
(Boy, if (uncle) Bobby CRANDALL was still around, he'd get those   ' 6 BAD  BOYS'  for a song from Boeing, just like he told Airbus he WANTED to RENT the A-300-600's) ( He got what he wanted OF COURSE )  !!!

One of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard. American would be better of just taking money and setting it on fire. 
 
but expecting you to understand airline economics is like expecting my dog to fly a plane....... 
 

AA has proposed starting LAX-PEK with a 289-seat 772 to try to win the "size matters" argument.

But lots of arguing in the filings by Delta about AA downsizing most of its China flights to 787s and lots of counter arguments by AA concerning DL's downsizing of many of its Asian flights and the downsizing of two of its awards from 747s to smaller aircraft.

It is really a shame the DOT looks at stupid things like this. 
 

Sounds like may be it's time the DOT changes when awarding these flights

 
Aircraft size shouldn't matter. 

 

[robbedagain]

true Dawg  and I agree    airlines will always make aircraft changes to meet demand

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

NRT is Japan, not China. 
 
One of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard. American would be better of just taking money and setting it on fire. 
 
but expecting you to understand airline economics is like expecting my dog to fly a plane....... 
 
It is really a shame the DOT looks at stupid things like this. 
 
 
Aircraft size shouldn't matter. 

 
" Size does Matter'  dummy !
Maybe thats why Korean has a stable of 747-800's.   That beautiful plane is only practical on certain types of routes. Routes with very high load factors/long haul.  Boeing has maxed out airliners (think 777-300) that can be lifted on only  " 2 " engines.  It's the same theory as to why the M E carriers have a crap load of A380's.  (extra long haul and great load factors.  Again, Not suitable for ANY 2 engined a/c).  I'll agree with you that it has to be just the "right" route, a 'niche' type a/c, and maybe something like LAX/PEK would be that "right type" of route.  Isn't it funny that a LOT of the Chinese carriers use a LOT of 4 engined airplanes !
So again, if your father never told you, "SIZE does MATTER" (on very specific routes)  !

 

[topDawg]

 
" Size does Matter'  dummy !
Maybe thats why Korean has a stable of 747-800's.   That beautiful plane is only practical on certain types of routes. Routes with very high load factors/long haul.  Boeing has maxed out airliners (think 777-300) that can be lifted on only  " 2 " engines.  It's the same theory as to why the M E carriers have a crap load of A380's.  (extra long haul and great load factors.  Again, Not suitable for ANY 2 engined a/c).  I'll agree with you that it has to be just the "right" route, and maybe something like LAX/PEK would be that "right type" of route.  Isn't it funny that a LOT of the Chinese carriers use a LOT of 4 engined airplanes !
So again, if your father never told you, "SIZE does MATTER"  !

 
So again, you don't know what you are talking about. 
 
First Boeing is developing a larger 777 than the 300/300ER. 
second Korean has a big fleet of 748s, all 6 of them. 
third the ME3 are not comparable to Delta/American/United. 
 
and finally of the big 3 China airlines, Air China, China Southern and China Eastern, they have all of 15 four engine airplanes (5 China Southern A380s, 3 Air China 744s(being replaced with 2 engine airplanes) and 7 Air China 748s. So 15 airplanes is "a lot" of 4 engine airplanes? Google dude! Its really not that hard and it would make you look a lot better than just posting random (and wrong) crap. 
 
 
Basically, you want American to run back into bankruptcy as fast as they can. For the love of God please stay away, far away, from any kind of airline management job. Labor has had enough of your type. 

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

 
So again, you don't know what you are talking about. 
 
First Boeing is developing a larger 777 than the 300/300ER. 
second Korean has a big fleet of 748s, all 6 of them. 
third the ME3 are not comparable to Delta/American/United. 
 
and finally of the big 3 China airlines, Air China, China Southern and China Eastern, they have all of 15 four engine airplanes (5 China Southern A380s, 3 Air China 744s(being replaced with 2 engine airplanes) and 7 Air China 748s. So 15 airplanes is "a lot" of 4 engine airplanes? Google dude! Its really not that hard and it would make you look a lot better than just posting random (and wrong) crap. 
 
 
Basically, you want American to run back into bankruptcy as fast as they can. For the love of God please stay away, far away, from any kind of airline management job. Labor has had enough of your type. 

 
So then 'Armchair A/C fleet manager', now you can TELL US ALL,  WHY,     " 1 8 2 "  4 engine a/c are operated by (a combined)  BA - LH - KLM and AF    ?????
 
Last time I looked,  BA and LH (especially) were NOT in the business of losing $$ !
 
Keep your  'day job'  throwing bags  !!
 
'WAITING'      !!!!!!!! 

 

[eolesen]

American on the other hand has gone from mostly 777 to almost all 787. Isn't LAX-PVG the only 777 route left and it is off and on between the 788 I believe? I'm pretty sure DFW/ORD-PEK/PVG are all 787.

There's still a 777 in the mix. I suspect some of the changing is due to the premium seating issue as much as it is managing capacity.
 

AA	127	DFW	PVG	788	2016-05-01	2016-09-01

AA	183	LAX	PVG	788	2016-05-01	2016-06-01
AA	183	LAX	PVG	777	2016-06-02	2016-09-01

AA	187	ORD	PEK	788	2016-05-01	2016-09-01

AA	263	DFW	PEK	788	2016-05-01	2016-09-01

AA	289	ORD	PVG	777	2016-05-01	2016-06-01
AA	289	ORD	PVG	788	2016-06-02	2016-09-01

For comparison, here's DL's Schedule:

DL	129	SEA	PEK	76W	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	185	LAX	PVG	77L	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	189	DTW	PEK	332	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	295	NRT	PVG	77L	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	583	DTW	PVG	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	589	SEA	PVG	76W	2016-05-01	2016-09-01

and UA's:

UA	9	SFO	CTU	788	2016-05-02	2016-08-31
UA	86	EWR	PVG	777	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	89	EWR	PEK	777	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	189	GUM	PVG	73G	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	189	GUM	PVG	738	2016-08-11	2016-08-11
UA	198	LAX	PVG	789	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	807	IAD	PEK	777	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	835	ORD	PVG	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	851	ORD	PEK	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	853	SFO	XIY	788	2016-05-08	2016-09-01
UA	857	SFO	PVG	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	888	SFO	PEK	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	982	SFO	HGH	789	2016-07-13	2016-08-31
UA	2273	GUM	PEK	738	2016-08-01	2016-08-16
UA	2279	GUM	PEK	738	2016-07-27	2016-07-27

 

[topDawg]

 
So then 'Armchair A/C fleet manager', now you can TELL US ALL,  WHY,     " 1 8 2 "  4 engine a/c are operated by (a combined)  BA - LH - KLM and AF    ?????
 
Last time I looked,  BA and LH (especially) were NOT in the business of losing $$ !
 
Keep your  'day job'  throwing bags  !!
 
'WAITING'      !!!!!!!! 

 
First, I am a mechanic. 
 
Second, dude if you aren't smart enough to see the trend that four engines are going away outside of a few niche carriers then I can't help you. Of the airlines you listed, they have a grand total of ONE four engine airplane on order. Oh and all of them have been replacing 744s with 787s, 350s, 777s etc. 
Most of them plan on completely replacing their 747s in the next few years with a mix of 779s, 35Ks and 787s. 
 
and its not armchair fleet managing, its the awesome thing called math. I understand you don't know what that is, but most of us do. 
 

There's still a 777 in the mix. I suspect some of the changing is due to the premium seating issue as much as it is managing capacity.
 

AA 127 DFW PVG 788 2016-05-01 2016-09-01

AA 183 LAX PVG 788 2016-05-01 2016-06-01
AA 183 LAX PVG 777 2016-06-02 2016-09-01

AA 187 ORD PEK 788 2016-05-01 2016-09-01

AA 263 DFW PEK 788 2016-05-01 2016-09-01

AA 289 ORD PVG 777 2016-05-01 2016-06-01
AA 289 ORD PVG 788 2016-06-02 2016-09-01

For comparison, here's DL's Schedule:

DL	129	SEA	PEK	76W	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	185	LAX	PVG	77L	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	189	DTW	PEK	332	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	295	NRT	PVG	77L	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	583	DTW	PVG	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
DL	589	SEA	PVG	76W	2016-05-01	2016-09-01

and UA's:

UA	9	SFO	CTU	788	2016-05-02	2016-08-31
UA	86	EWR	PVG	777	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	89	EWR	PEK	777	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	189	GUM	PVG	73G	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	189	GUM	PVG	738	2016-08-11	2016-08-11
UA	198	LAX	PVG	789	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	807	IAD	PEK	777	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	835	ORD	PVG	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	851	ORD	PEK	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	853	SFO	XIY	788	2016-05-08	2016-09-01
UA	857	SFO	PVG	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	888	SFO	PEK	744	2016-05-01	2016-09-01
UA	982	SFO	HGH	789	2016-07-13	2016-08-31
UA	2273	GUM	PEK	738	2016-08-01	2016-08-16
UA	2279	GUM	PEK	738	2016-07-27	2016-07-27

whoops. Thanks E. Didn't know ORD-OVG was (back?) on the 777. 

 

[eolesen]

So then 'Armchair A/C fleet manager', now you can TELL US ALL,  WHY,     " 1 8 2 "  4 engine a/c are operated by (a combined)  BA - LH - KLM and AF    ?????
 
Last time I looked,  BA and LH (especially) were NOT in the business of losing $$ !
 
Keep your  'day job'  throwing bags  !!
 
'WAITING'      !!!!!!!!

1) your hero Crandall HATED the 747. One of his first acts as a C level executive was to start to get rid of them the first time (1984) and the only reason the 74SP's stuck around after the MD11 showed up was because they had leases on them and AA at the time didn't just park airplanes they were paying for.

His exact words to ME (at a Presidents Conference) were that "nobody ever went broke flying too small of an airplane." (We now know the exception to that was the 35-50 seat RJ which was too small )

2) LH, KL and AF had no choice over ordering the A380. It was politically necessary to operate a token number of the airframes from one of their largest national industries.

3) BA also ordered them with noses upturned, but because of the lack of expansion at LHR.

For airlines with a single/dual hub network, it probably still makes sense to pack 'em in on a four engine aircraft.

But certainly not for airlines like AA, DL, or UA.

 

[robbedagain]

Dawg  I believe certain times of the year 777 does the ORD PVG run  and rest of the time its the 788