American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I have a question for you mechanics. I remember back in the days you folks used to do push backs n marshalling in aircraft. I've only heard you folks gave M it up (03 04?)? TO PRESERVE jobs. Is that true? Also if u do go AMFA are you going to try get those job functions back? I'm just curious bec as I'm in mandatory quarantine for possible exposure I was remembering how you did those functions n while I do not remember when we took over it.

Robbedagain;

There are way too many people who are saying AMFA is going to do this or that. AMFA will take over the current contract as it is. Work with AA to rectify some of the language that maybe TWU or IAM specific and get some type of LOA to undue that particular section of the contract. Until the JCBA becomes amendable AMFA will enforce what language is in place. A/C movement and other jobs such as de-icing went to Fleet because in both books there is some language which allows the company to do that. ( That is WHY the reps say they can do that brother all the time. ) AMFA is not the saving grace everyone thinks, it is up to the membership to re-think the way things were done under the industrial union representation. Being in a separate class and craft union will just give us power over what happens to the M&R employees without the ME TOO clauses. If the fleet or stores guys do better then that is a FAILURE on our part.

AA and other companies have offered stuff during negotiation to the M&R group but not to the other groups, and the industrial union just say NO, not unless all our members get it. It was the same within M&R when Tulsa's O/H base ruled. The line guys didn't get cost of living or whatever because of it. So all it did was cause dissension between us all.

Those of us in M&R that some of you talk about who have said the coattail stuff, that is the reason why they feel that way. They also used to say to Hell with the O/H guys. We in M&R just need to take care of our own, do what is best for our craft and let the other groups do the same. When it all comes down to it if one union group is in a battle with the company each union group on the property should help in as many ways as possible. That is what unions are supposed to do.

What work is done by each group is related to what is in the contract books. How that work gets done is worked out by the Bargaining unit and the company.
Each group has its purpose and non more important than the other. Well maybe with the exception of the Pilots. I was mainly talking ground support workers.

 

[1986Mekanic]

I know you do. You go out from time to time to do checks, make repairs, or change oil. Many times the work you do is in the cabin not outside in the elements. From my perspective that is not the same as being outside all day long moving literally TONS of bags and freight. As a whole you don't have near the workload as Fleet. It certainly is not nearly as physical. That is why you see so few career clerks without knee, hip, back, and shoulder operations. That's OK you are paid for your expertise and license not for your back, but to compare the time a mechanic spends out in the elements vs a clerk is laughable. It's not even close.

You have no clue what it's like to change a CSD in the dead of night in the middle of winter with an ice cold wind from an elevated work stand with nothing but a head lamp with the batteries going dead with your shoes covered with oil and some deadbeat supervisor brow beating because your not done because the printer you were trying to use to print the manual didnt function..

Talking out your arse again I see.... carry on....

 

[robbedagain]

Robbedagain;

There are way too many people who are saying AMFA is going to do this or that. AMFA will take over the current contract as it is. Work with AA to rectify some of the language that maybe TWU or IAM specific and get some type of LOA to undue that particular section of the contract. Until the JCBA becomes amendable AMFA will enforce what language is in place. A/C movement and other jobs such as de-icing went to Fleet because in both books there is some language which allows the company to do that. ( That is WHY the reps say they can do that brother all the time. ) AMFA is not the saving grace everyone thinks, it is up to the membership to re-think the way things were done under the industrial union representation. Being in a separate class and craft union will just give us power over what happens to the M&R employees without the ME TOO clauses. If the fleet or stores guys do better then that is a FAILURE on our part.

AA and other companies have offered stuff during negotiation to the M&R group but not to the other groups, and the industrial union just say NO, not unless all our members get it. It was the same within M&R when Tulsa's O/H base ruled. The line guys didn't get cost of living or whatever because of it. So all it did was cause dissension between us all.

Those of us in M&R that some of you talk about who have said the coattail stuff, that is the reason why they feel that way. They also used to say to Hell with the O/H guys. We in M&R just need to take care of our own, do what is best for our craft and let the other groups do the same. When it all comes down to it if one union group is in a battle with the company each union group on the property should help in as many ways as possible. That is what unions are supposed to do.

What work is done by each group is related to what is in the contract books. How that work gets done is worked out by the Bargaining unit and the company.
Each group has its purpose and non more important than the other. Well maybe with the exception of the Pilots. I was mainly talking ground support workers.

Thank u for that detailed response. it clearly makes sense. I wish you folks nothing but the best in your quest for it. Thank u again. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

They are on AA payroll and union payroll. I think so.

I don't

You think the TWU international is made up of American Airline employees?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You have no clue what it's like to change a CSD in the dead of night in the middle of winter with an ice cold wind from an elevated work stand with nothing but a head lamp with the batteries going dead with your shoes covered with oil and some deadbeat supervisor brow beating because your not done because the printer you were trying to use to print the manual didnt function..

Talking out your arse again I see.... carry on....

Boo hoo.

You don't think I have I worked rough jobs in my life?

Cry me a river.

I have worked under almost the same conditions in the skeleton of a building (no walls, no protection from the wind) running electrical circuits 30 feet in the air. I did it for 8 hours. How long did it take you to change the CSD?

By the way I had oil on my shoes to because we were threading thousands of feet of rigid pipe. Cutting threads into rigid requires oil.

Ever spend a month in the dead of winter chiseling out pipes by hand that settled into a cold concrete floor.

How about using a sledgehammer to drive a ground rod through frozen ground only to be met by rocky ground under that.

Most of us have had to do hard and uncomfortable jobs in our lives so save your whiny hard luck story for someone else. I don't want to hear it.

 

[1AA]

I don't

You think the TWU international is made up of American Airline employees?

Yes and IAM as well. Gary Peterson is an AA employee and a international officer on the TWU side. I believe Alex Garcia is still on the International. He was in charge of the AA title 1 and 2 in negotiations.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm pretty sure that everyone on here (fleet or AMT) has done their fair share of terrible shifts and extreme weather. That's common ground we all share, not a wedge issue.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Yes and IAM as well. Gary Peterson is an AA employee and a international officer on the TWU side. I believe Alex Garcia is still on the International. He was in charge of the AA title 1 and 2 in negotiations.

Maybe so. But my understanding is that TWU, being a multi employer UNION, has officers from several companies serving. So to state that fellow American Airlines employees run the TWU is hardly accurate.

I'm pretty sure that everyone on here (fleet or AMT) has done their fair share of terrible shifts and extreme weather. That's common ground we all share, not a wedge issue.

I agree. Point is Fleet EARNS their money. To be called a coat tail rider is pretty insulting after working out in the cold, in the snow, at night time, unloading a whole 757 with a skeleton crew.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Robbedagain;

There are way too many people who are saying AMFA is going to do this or that. AMFA will take over the current contract as it is. Work with AA to rectify some of the language that maybe TWU or IAM specific and get some type of LOA to undue that particular section of the contract. Until the JCBA becomes amendable AMFA will enforce what language is in place. A/C movement and other jobs such as de-icing went to Fleet because in both books there is some language which allows the company to do that. ( That is WHY the reps say they can do that brother all the time. ) AMFA is not the saving grace everyone thinks, it is up to the membership to re-think the way things were done under the industrial union representation. Being in a separate class and craft union will just give us power over what happens to the M&R employees without the ME TOO clauses. If the fleet or stores guys do better then that is a FAILURE on our part.

AA and other companies have offered stuff during negotiation to the M&R group but not to the other groups, and the industrial union just say NO, not unless all our members get it. It was the same within M&R when Tulsa's O/H base ruled. The line guys didn't get cost of living or whatever because of it. So all it did was cause dissension between us all.

Those of us in M&R that some of you talk about who have said the coattail stuff, that is the reason why they feel that way. They also used to say to Hell with the O/H guys. We in M&R just need to take care of our own, do what is best for our craft and let the other groups do the same. When it all comes down to it if one union group is in a battle with the company each union group on the property should help in as many ways as possible. That is what unions are supposed to do.

What work is done by each group is related to what is in the contract books. How that work gets done is worked out by the Bargaining unit and the company.
Each group has its purpose and non more important than the other. Well maybe with the exception of the Pilots. I was mainly talking ground support workers.

Just happened on this as I have not been here for a while. Interesting that Tulsa is still blamed for denying cost of living to line stations. We have discussed this before and the reason there was no COLA for line stations fall on GARY PETERSON. There was a study done and it turned out Dallas was not considered a high cost area so nobody at DFW (Or AFW at the time) would have qualified so GARY PETERSON shot the whole thing down. Tulsa was in favor of the COLA and was not doing anything to stop it. As I said this was all explained years ago right on this message board. Peterson has proven himself to be a sellout as you can all plainly see so maybe now you can see that it was Peterson who is responsible. I know Tulsa was a problem for a long time as I was one of those fighting to make change and it finally happened once the old guard were gone. I know for a fact that the Tulsa local had nothing to do with the COLA. I found this out from several sources. But we have seen over the years that if you continue telling the same lie over and over it becomes truth.

 

[swamt]

Welcome back OG. Nice hearing from ya again.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Just happened on this as I have not been here for a while. Interesting that Tulsa is still blamed for denying cost of living to line stations. We have discussed this before and the reason there was no COLA for line stations fall on GARY PETERSON. There was a study done and it turned out Dallas was not considered a high cost area so nobody at DFW (Or AFW at the time) would have qualified so GARY PETERSON shot the whole thing down. Tulsa was in favor of the COLA and was not doing anything to stop it. As I said this was all explained years ago right on this message board. Peterson has proven himself to be a sellout as you can all plainly see so maybe now you can see that it was Peterson who is responsible. I know Tulsa was a problem for a long time as I was one of those fighting to make change and it finally happened once the old guard were gone. I know for a fact that the Tulsa local had nothing to do with the COLA. I found this out from several sources. But we have seen over the years that if you continue telling the same lie over and over it becomes truth.

I am glad to see you back.

 

[swamt]

BTW: An update for some of you that has asked me for a breakdown of numbers from certain groups and now I have them. The following groups and numbers are the ones and representative unions that received WARN letters at SWA:

Union Representational Numbers:

TWU Represented Employees--4,057
IAM Represented Employees--1,546
SWAPA Represented Employees--1,221
IBT (Teamsters) Represented Employees--46
AMFA Represented Mechanic and Related Employees--374
AMFA Represented Employees--29

• 2,551 Ramp, Provisioning, Ops, and Cargo Agents represented by TWU 555
• 1,176 Customer Service Agents represented by IAM
• 370 CS&S and SOS Representatives represented by IAM
• 1,500 Flight Attendants represented by TWU 556
• 1,221 Pilots represented by SWAPA
• 6 Flight Instructors represented by TWU 557
• 4 Flight Sim Techs represented by IBT
• 374 Mechanics and Related represented by AMFA
  
• 26 Appearance Technicians represented by AMFA
  
• 3 Facilities Maintenance represented by AMFA
  
• 42 Material Specialist represented by IBT (teamsters)

 

[robbedagain]

BTW: An update for some of you that has asked me for a breakdown of numbers from certain groups and now I have them. The following groups and numbers are the ones and representative unions that received WARN letters at SWA:

Union Representational Numbers:

TWU Represented Employees--4,057
IAM Represented Employees--1,546
SWAPA Represented Employees--1,221
IBT (Teamsters) Represented Employees--46
AMFA Represented Mechanic and Related Employees--374
AMFA Represented Employees--29

• 2,551 Ramp, Provisioning, Ops, and Cargo Agents represented by TWU 555
• 1,176 Customer Service Agents represented by IAM
• 370 CS&S and SOS Representatives represented by IAM
• 1,500 Flight Attendants represented by TWU 556
• 1,221 Pilots represented by SWAPA
• 6 Flight Instructors represented by TWU 557
• 4 Flight Sim Techs represented by IBT
• 374 Mechanics and Related represented by AMFA
  
• 26 Appearance Technicians represented by AMFA
  
• 3 Facilities Maintenance represented by AMFA
  
• 42 Material Specialist represented by IBT (teamsters)

That is a huge hit to everyone but especially the ramp area if it comes to fruition.

 

[Old Azz Mechanic]

BTW: An update for some of you that has asked me for a breakdown of numbers from certain groups and now I have them. The following groups and numbers are the ones and representative unions that received WARN letters at SWA:

Union Representational Numbers:

TWU Represented Employees--4,057
IAM Represented Employees--1,546
SWAPA Represented Employees--1,221
IBT (Teamsters) Represented Employees--46
AMFA Represented Mechanic and Related Employees--374
AMFA Represented Employees--29

• 2,551 Ramp, Provisioning, Ops, and Cargo Agents represented by TWU 555
• 1,176 Customer Service Agents represented by IAM
• 370 CS&S and SOS Representatives represented by IAM
• 1,500 Flight Attendants represented by TWU 556
• 1,221 Pilots represented by SWAPA
• 6 Flight Instructors represented by TWU 557
• 4 Flight Sim Techs represented by IBT
• 374 Mechanics and Related represented by AMFA
  
• 26 Appearance Technicians represented by AMFA
  
• 3 Facilities Maintenance represented by AMFA
  
• 42 Material Specialist represented by IBT (teamsters)

AMFA only has 403 members right now. I guess now I understand why you spend ALL of your time everyday on this site. You guys dont have the Member/Money. AA members is a must for amfa. I think I may have must changed my vote.

 

[dfw gen]

AMFA only has 403 members right now. I guess now I understand why you spend ALL of your time everyday on this site. You guys dont have the Member/Money. AA members is a must for amfa. I think I may have must changed my vote.

Lol. Ok.