American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

It was the airlines who were poking the gov to step in the first time for assistance, NOT the unions.

I doubt very seriously the airlines asked for the no layoff clause in the agreement for the assistance.

The second round of assistance was kicked off by unions, fully supported by the airlines, including A4A who also contacted congressional leaders pushing the support as well as letting congressional leaders know how bad it will get come Oct 1st if there were no extensions granted.

So? They go on unemployment and find another job just like every other swinging dick in America.

I know you two minds will not change about this being an entitlement by the unions, but, it's actually an employee based assistance not so much union based at all.

Oh? Then why were NONE of the protections extended to management and support staff?

Sure, it's probably kicking the can down the road, but so what, give the lower senior folks another 6 months to stash the cash and prepare (they should already have done this this past 6 months) but hey, some probably couldn't get all their monies in order.

Yes exactly, they have had 6 months. If they can't get their finances in order in 6 months or come up with some sort of exit plan that is their problem. Extending CARES for them to sit on their ass..... well you just make THEIR problem MY problem. How is that fair to John Q. Taxpayer to be burdened with supporting someone who makes far more than they do to sit on their ass and collect a check.

CARES is nothing more than Democrats pandering to a traditionally Democrat voting base. I am sure the Democrats themselves will resist renewing it so they can blame Trump and secure votes from laid off, disenfranchised people. That is true to manipulative Democrat tactics.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

i'm getting paid my normal wages - no lining my pocket with any windfall.

The fact you think you are not getting a windfall when the government is paying a private sector employee's wages in an industry that is 80 percent overstaffed is hilarious.

It really is proof of how much UNION entitlement has warped your mind.

 

[V.O. Reason]

I would say prospects of extending the CARES act are looking less likely.
The stalled talks in congress for additional stimulus look to be going nowhere.
So for those hopping for this extension better not hope to long.
If you can afford to retire and get out I say take the money and run.
This industry is going to be a mess for a while.
My age and such prevent me from getting out but if I could I would

 

[Rogallo]

In short you are not enjoying YOUR wages, you are enjoying MINE as the taxes levied against my paycheck, are now and will be as we pay off the debt, benefiting YOU.

Let me be the first to say "Thank You"

 

[CremaDiLimone]

No. If if airline employees were getting paid their normal wage then there would be many laid off. In fact you ARE getting a windfall and those wages being enjoyed by the airline employees are in fact taxes being paid by other people, most making far less than airline employees. In short you are not enjoying YOUR wages, you are enjoying MINE as the taxes levied against my paycheck, are now and will be as we pay off the debt, benefiting YOU.

right..so, not only am i lining my pockets, but it's with your own personal money.

They certainly are not supporting 80% of their workforce after the print shop and butcher shop said they don't need those employees due to drop in demand.

so, people stopped eating? drop in demand??

people are still eating. businesses still need printing work done. i know such businesses..they didn't layoff anyone. those businesses applied for and are recipients of the PPP. is that more of your money now going to a butcher and a printer, besides a fleet service clerk? how do you make ends meet?

the fact of the matter is: there are powerful people at the very top of a few branches of the govt. that deem the transportation industry 'vital'. they intervened and i believe they will again.

i don't feel guilty for any airline getting cares act money. no one said anything when airlines got squeezed by oil companies. profits, including potential profit sharing for employees went to the chevrons, the BPs and shells. i hope oil crashes back to $31/bbl and stays there forever.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The more you examine the mechanics of the CARES act the more and more it looks like Democrat pandering before an election to what has traditionally been a Democrat voting base. It is no accident the support ends 1 month before the November elections. However most people are so stupid they can't see 2 feet beyond their face.....

doesn't look like democratic pandering to a traditional democratic voting base. in fact, i fear the democrats trying to tie money for PBS, planned parenthood and free ice cold water in the desert to a second cares act...only to see the republicans balk.

need a clean bill.

here's trump, just last week -

Trump backs plan to give airlines another $25 billion in aid

https://thehill.com/policy/transpor...an-to-give-airlines-another-25-billion-in-aid

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Let me be the first to say "Thank You"

I don't want your thanks. I want you to open your eyes as to what is really going on.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

right..so, not only am i lining my pockets, but it's with your own personal money.

They are robbing Peter (through taxation) to pay Paul.

so, people stopped eating? drop in demand??

people are still eating. businesses still need printing work done. i know such businesses..they didn't layoff anyone. those businesses applied for and are recipients of the PPP. is that more of your money now going to a butcher and a printer, besides a fleet service clerk? how do you make ends meet?

EXACTLY!!! There is a DEMAND for their service, there is not a demand for yours. That is why the airline is 80% overstaffed.

I work for a major ISP. There is actually MORE demand for my companies services since COVID due to more demand for online services (Netflix, gaming, people working from home). Don't you worry about me making ends meet, I do just fine.

the fact of the matter is: there are powerful people at the very top of a few branches of the govt. that deem the transportation industry 'vital'. they intervened and i believe they will again.

Sure it is vital.... that does not mean they need to maintain 100 percent staffing.

i don't feel guilty for any airline getting cares act money.

Of course you don't, you are "entitled" to it right? People with a sense of entitlement never feel guilt because they are getting what they "deserve".

no one said anything when airlines got squeezed by oil companies. profits, including potential profit sharing for employees went to the chevrons, the BPs and shells. i hope oil crashes back to $31/bbl and stays there forever.

Oil is a globally traded commodity. When you have supply interruptions or high demand (or both) the price goes up. Welcome to economics 101. Oil provides people in this country good jobs. My cousin makes a 6 figure salary doing pipeline inspection. Are you saying you wish for those employees industry to be devastated for your benefit?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

doesn't look like democratic pandering to a traditional democratic voting base.

That is EXACTLY what it looks like.

in fact, i fear the democrats trying to tie money for PBS, planned parenthood and free ice cold water in the desert to a second cares act...only to see the republicans balk.

Again, I can see Democrats adding ridiculous demands with the intent of the CARES act failing and trying to blame Trump while their pet leftist media pushes a false narrative.

need a clean bill.

Agreed.

here's trump, just last week -

https://thehill.com/policy/transpor...an-to-give-airlines-another-25-billion-in-aid

Of course!!

It is right before an election. You don't think HE wants to be the bad guy do you?

He will absolutely turn his back on the conservative ideals he claims to uphold to get those votes.

 

[Rogallo]

I don't want your thanks. I want you to open your eyes as to what is really going on.

Do you spend any time at all conversing with people that can actually change what is going on in this county as you do on this anonymous internet chat room?

Or maybe run for office yourself and start that change.

Just asking!

 

[dfw gen]

Do you spend any time at all conversing with people that can actually change what is going on in this county as you do on this anonymous internet chat room?

Or maybe run for office yourself and start that change.

Just asking!

The only reason he is here because the mother of his children still works at AA..and he just cant let go...

 

[swamt]

IMHO, I don't think that CARES 2 is going to happen, so I'm sure there will be furloughs because it will be less business for October into next year. In my workgroup at UA, they were supposed to put out options for those on the RIF lists, and they were supposed to (if eligible) to see what cities that were open to bid on (if their seniority could hold if you took the system option). That was pushed back for a couple of weeks, because the company and the IAM came up with a offer where you can take a leave for one calendar year with 25 percent pay and full benefits and accruals. I think some people would take that offer if they have something else going on. Meanwhile, some people are still taking COLAs, and some are retiring. I think it would mitigate some furloughs, (I don't know what other work groups are offering their members) so I don't think it would be 36,000 in total. Maybe half of that number..... which is still a lot. Hopefully in six or seven months, things would be better. (I don't know when it will be normal, but that is only when the day we won't have to wear a mask.

Just my two cents..........

Well, just read where United is adding winter flights to Florida (COVID allowing) so maybe, and hopefully we will start to see an uptick, and hopefully this time it will hold or even slowly increase at least domestically for starters.
T5towbar, I know of folks in Texas (don't know where you are) that are approved for unemployment who took the leave with 25% pay. With the unemployment benefits it came out more like 50% pay in total with 25% from work and unemployment of max pay allowed as we all should make enough as mechanics to get the max amount. In total it all comes out to about 125-150 bucks less than 50% of monthly pay to stay home. The other positives that the guys also talk about are the savings in fuel (it's a lot of commuting in Texas) wear and tear on vehicles, toll fees, some guys were buying lunches every single day and some twice a day when working their doubles, buying coffee every morning too, that all adds up greatly when you stop going to work. Some were saying a savings of 500- $1,000 per month in savings easily. Also the guys that have the crash pads for their doubles and triples, they also save those expenses as well.
A question T5, Is United allowing the folks on leave for long terms (longer than a year) to get paid in full for their vacations at end of year?? If so this would bring total compensation up to around 65-75% of pay to stay home and would be even more worthwhile to stay home as it puts us all in a lower tax bracket too saving another 3% in taxes and now starting Sep. 1st Trump just signed into law a tax break, just not sure if it will cover us or not as of yet.
FYI, once they go to the new extended leaves here, it will kill the unemployment benefits because they will say you made too much. But on the 25% pay it will work, at least in Texas.

 

[swamt]

Why not? They giving the pilots 3 years pay. Right?

Exactly.

i'm getting paid my normal wages - no lining my pocket with any windfall.

getting paid my normal wages just as a printer at a print shop or a butcher at a market from businesses that applied for ppp. the govt. is also paying their wages.

it's not just airlines.

BINGO! But he will still argue it is.

i saw that interview yesterday on fox business news - as the dow tanked a few hundred points in 20 minutes, in front of my eyes.

the delta CEO was somewhat upbeat. said leisure travel is king right now and maybe business travel comes back after a vaccine. he said delta will test and keep testing each and every employee for the virus.

he also said that by not extending the cares act, there will be layoffs in the tens of thousands for other airlines, but - he did say that delta is hoping not to layoff anyone.

so, delta is still sticking to it's narrative that it doesn't want to and may not have to - layoff employees. he said half of delta's employees have taken a leave or have left the company.

Good! Glad you shared that. When I read it I was thinking he was doom and gloom, but glad to hear from someone who watched it to be upbeat a bit, so thx for sharing.

No. If if airline employees were getting paid their normal wage then there would be many laid off. In fact you ARE getting a windfall and those wages being enjoyed by the airline employees are in fact taxes being paid by other people, most making far less than airline employees. In short you are not enjoying YOUR wages, you are enjoying MINE as the taxes levied against my paycheck, are now and will be as we pay off the debt, benefiting YOU.

They certainly are not supporting 80% of their workforce after the print shop and butcher shop said they don't need those employees due to drop in demand.

Supporting 80 percent of their payroll? Yes, in fact it is.

That goes far beyond assistance.

The airline employees are still getting full wages paid while working. The folks taking some of the leaves are getting what ever they agreed to and/or picked some at 25% one one type of leave and some at 50%, 55% and 60%, some for just months and some for years depending on the agreements inked between the groups.
I still think and support an extension is coming, it will be up to AA and United if they will accept the CARES Act 2 as they still know they will have to still involuntarily reduce, at least at AA since merger, not sure about United but it does sound as if they might too mostly because of the international flights they deal with.
I know you have bone to pick concerning the airline unionized workers, but I would think you would support the extension for your other half to keep getting paid and stay at work at least until March 2021. I fully support less people on unemployment no matter what industry they may be in period...

 

[swamt]

I doubt very seriously the airlines asked for the no layoff clause in the agreement for the assistance.

I didn't say they did, and no the airlines did not ask for that restriction, it was brought up by the unions (AMFA in our case) as well as the stock buybacks and other super bonus pay to officers and execs.

So? They go on unemployment and find another job just like every other swinging dick in America.

Disagree, but you won't care.

Oh? Then why were NONE of the protections extended to management and support staff?

I believe the very first reductions at AA were done before the CARES ACT was in place because the CARES ACT covers ALL employees not just unionized employees, so the first one was without the CARES ACT enacted as of yet.

Yes exactly, they have had 6 months. If they can't get their finances in order in 6 months or come up with some sort of exit plan that is their problem. Extending CARES for them to sit on their ass..... well you just make THEIR problem MY problem. How is that fair to John Q. Taxpayer to be burdened with supporting someone who makes far more than they do to sit on their ass and collect a check.

It's not a burdened to the already tax paying folks. They will be charged the same amount of taxes as they have been paying, so not any added burden. Secondly, the folks making less than 105K will benefit from Trumps exec order of tax deferral so even LESS of a burden for those folks.
So why not give another 6 months to see if vaccine is out, flights start picking up and maybe most layoffs will get avoided or at least much, much LESS than what they would do Oct 1st 2020. Bring on the extension and save jobs period.

CARES is nothing more than Democrats pandering to a traditionally Democrat voting base. I am sure the Democrats themselves will resist renewing it so they can blame Trump and secure votes from laid off, disenfranchised people. That is true to manipulative Democrat tactics.

And that's why Dems that use that type of nego tactics politically are pcs of shits!!!

 

[swamt]

Do you spend any time at all conversing with people that can actually change what is going on in this county as you do on this anonymous internet chat room?

Or maybe run for office yourself and start that change.

Just asking!

Rogallo, did AA make any changes to their offers when they extended the time frame? Or did they just extend the time frame in hopes that more folks would sign up?? Is the extension (IYO) a pause while waiting to see if the PPS extension goes thru??? Any more takers signing up for it????