American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[swamt]

Frankly if I was working for 14 dollars an hour busting my ass as some contractor with no benefits (or benefits priced to where I can't afford them just so they can say they "offer benefits" to potential recruits, the new scam of corporate America), struggling to pay bills, and paying taxes every week for someone else who makes more than twice what I do and has benefits I could only dream of to sit around and do nothing I would feel pretty incensed.

I think if ANY of you were on the other side of the coin this whole CARES act and payroll funding for an industry that has little demand for it's service would piss you off to.

However it is lining your pockets so you justify it.

It's wrong.

Period.

I make no apologies for that statement.

Your probably right on your theory.
Now to be fair I have not known or seen anyone (except for one person who lost her job as a hairstylist) that lost their job near or around me. My son for an example is that example you just gave with different outcome. He is being paid 15-20 per hour. His company is a small business company who did get assistance from the gov. and they are not and do not have anything to do with the airlines, it's an electrical company that sells electronic devices to other companies and businesses. They went to a 3 day work week Fri., Sat., Sun., and Mon. off but still receive full pay as if they were still there for the full week, they also, from time to time, send employees home when slow and ask them to stay home extra days when not busy all the while getting paid for full week. From what he has been told is that his company is considered as essential. If you are essential then I guess you get the funds to help you and or your business survive. Hair salons and massage companies are NOT essential so they didn't get any help.
Just letting you know it's not just the airlines employees who are getting saved by taxpayers it's a whole bunch of other essential jobs and businesses, so please, let's not just categorise the aviation folks. Yea aviation folks make pretty good money when comparing wages benefits and perks, but, other industries are also receiving their payments while staying at home. Ours is reduced in order for the airlines to save money for a better recovery as well as to hopefully refrain from layoffs and furloughs.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I think if ANY of you were on the other side of the coin this whole CARES act and payroll funding for an industry that has little demand for it's service would piss you off to.

However it is lining your pockets so you justify it.

It's wrong.

Period.

I make no apologies for that statement.

how is the cares act lining my pocket?

the industry has little demand because the govt. - at fed, state and local levels; have all hindered and discouraged travel.

the cares act is paying my salary and the payroll protection act is paying the salary of your hypothetical contractor - if that business is shut down. granted, small businesses had to climb 2 mountains to get registered, but, it's all the same.

there are more scams occurring with unemployment - from an explosion of identity theft incidents to those collecting double their previous salaries and not too motivated to get off unemployment to those who took voluntary leaves and collect more staying at home than those who go to work and deal with the virus.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Your probably right on your theory.
Now to be fair I have not known or seen anyone (except for one person who lost her job as a hairstylist) that lost their job near or around me. My son for an example is that example you just gave with different outcome. He is being paid 15-20 per hour. His company is a small business company who did get assistance from the gov. and they are not and do not have anything to do with the airlines, it's an electrical company that sells electronic devices to other companies and businesses. They went to a 3 day work week Fri., Sat., Sun., and Mon. off but still receive full pay as if they were still there for the full week, they also, from time to time, send employees home when slow and ask them to stay home extra days when not busy all the while getting paid for full week. From what he has been told is that his company is considered as essential. If you are essential then I guess you get the funds to help you and or your business survive. Hair salons and massage companies are NOT essential so they didn't get any help.
Just letting you know it's not just the airlines employees who are getting saved by taxpayers it's a whole bunch of other essential jobs and businesses, so please, let's not just categorise the aviation folks. Yea aviation folks make pretty good money when comparing wages benefits and perks, but, other industries are also receiving their payments while staying at home. Ours is reduced in order for the airlines to save money for a better recovery as well as to hopefully refrain from layoffs and furloughs.

That is good they are getting assistance however there are some consideration.

#1 AA is at what..... 20 percent capacity right now? I am sure that business is operating at far more than 20% capactiy.

#2 Pure numbers. You say he works for a small business but American Airlines is a HUGE company. That matters. It's one thing to float tens or maybe even a couple of hundred. Floating THOUSANDS is an entirely different matter. Also management and support staff certainly did not enjoy the same protections the UNION employees did despite working in the same industry and company, but nobody wants to talk about that. Where were THEIR protections? See where I am coming from?

how is the cares act lining my pocket?

What do you mean how is the CARES act lining your pocket? They are covering American Airlines (and other airlines) payroll............ I can't believe I have to explain that to you.

the industry has little demand because the govt. - at fed, state and local levels; have all hindered and discouraged travel.

Well you got me there..... sort of. People have made the decision not to fly but you are correct that decision was made due to government and media influence.

I have had COVID. As a matter of fact it put me in the hospital (OSU COVID Ward). I was so ill I had to go by ambulance because I could not make the trip in the SUV even with my wife driving. Despite my recent health scare and ongoing symptoms (trouble breathing, fatigue, elevated heart rate) I do not believe COVID is worth wrecking our economy over.

the cares act is paying my salary and the payroll protection act is paying the salary of your hypothetical contractor - if that business is shut down. granted, small businesses had to climb 2 mountains to get registered, but, it's all the same.

It's not at all the same. Read #! and #2 on the comment I directed toward swamt.

there are more scams occurring with unemployment - from an explosion of identity theft incidents to those collecting double their previous salaries and not too motivated to get off unemployment to those who took voluntary leaves and collect more staying at home than those who go to work and deal with the virus.

I have no contrary statement to make as I totally agree with you.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Also management and support staff certainly did not enjoy the same protections the UNION employees did despite working in the same industry and company, but nobody wants to talk about that. Where were THEIR protections?

I see not one of you defending the CARES act want to touch this.

I can't blame you.

If it made me look like a total hypocrite I would not want to comment on it either.

Like I said...... UNION entitlement.

 

[Talos]

I see not one of you defending the CARES act want to touch this.

I can't blame you.

If it made me look like a total hypocrite I would not want to comment on it either.

Like I said...... UNION entitlement.

I don't know the details of the stimulus laws the politicians made, but if they gave AA and the other companies payroll money and excluded work groups from it then that is wrong of them. I don't think it is union entitlement but just a badly written and flawed law. Like the unemployment giving people who make 10$ an hour 600 a week extra. The pandemic along with an election year has made things into a political battle with some strange results. Probably have more strange results soon.

 

[swamt]

I see not one of you defending the CARES act want to touch this.

I can't blame you.

If it made me look like a total hypocrite I would not want to comment on it either.

Like I said...... UNION entitlement.

It's not that I didn't want to touch it, but at my carrier no management or non-union employees were given any different offers from SWA.
Can't speak for AA, but I do know some management as well as support staff was let go early on in the very beginning of all this, AND I believe it may have been before the CARES Act was enacted and put into play. I also think that that very first reduction in employees (management and support staff) was the eye opener for the gov. to decide the airlines were fixin to create a huge unemployment numbers if they didn't get help.
Going totally by memory here, so I could be wrong.
I will add that I don't agree with different treatment of any employees rather union or not, f/t, p/t, an employee is an employee no matter what work group they belong to. I will say SWA did a good job of this thru-out, they treated management, union, non-union, all employees the same and had the same offers available with only restrictions tied to years of employment and ages, which is true at all other companies offering the buy-outs and leaves.

 

[eolesen]

Can't speak for AA

No disrespect, but no matter how many times you come back and brag about how good the offer at WN was, AA isn't going to match it. They can't afford it.

And yes, trying to do another round of CARES grants or loans is union driven entitlements.

Another round of handcuffs on management's ability to staff an airline the way it needs to be staffed will only benefit the junior union employees who will likely still need to be laid off come March 2021.

It's time to rip off the band-aid.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

It's not that I didn't want to touch it, but at my carrier no management or non-union employees were given any different offers from SWA.

I was not directing that comment toward you. I was directing that comment toward AA employees that support this ridiculous CARES act and wish to extend it.

I will add that I don't agree with different treatment of any employees rather union or not, f/t, p/t, an employee is an employee no matter what work group they belong to.

The more you examine the mechanics of the CARES act the more and more it looks like Democrat pandering before an election to what has traditionally been a Democrat voting base. It is no accident the support ends 1 month before the November elections. However most people are so stupid they can't see 2 feet beyond their face.....

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

No disrespect, but no matter how many times you come back and brag about how good the offer at WN was, AA isn't going to match it. They can't afford it.

AA gas a debt problem and people seem to ignore that FACT.

And yes, trying to do another round of CARES grants or loans is union driven entitlements.

Absolutely it is.

Another round of handcuffs on management's ability to staff an airline the way it needs to be staffed will only benefit the junior union employees who will likely still need to be laid off come March 2021.

Yes indeed. Like I said this CARES act is nothing more than political pandering. However the rank and file UNION members have blinders on. Either they refuse to see it because the lie benefits them, they are in denial, or they are really stupid and can't see the obvious right in front of their face, take your pick.

 

[robbedagain]

La li As a FSA for A . I tell my colleagues that in my own personal opinion I believe the writing is on the wall for a CH 11 filing bec of the debt loa . It's almost like Dejubu when we were US n there was 2 filings. granted different time periods but still and I feel the stock buy backs did helluva damage more than DL n UA n SW

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

La li As a FSA for A . I tell my colleagues that in my own personal opinion I believe the writing is on the wall for a CH 11 filing bec of the debt loa . It's almost like Dejubu when we were US n there was 2 filings. granted different time periods but still and I feel the stock buy backs did helluva damage more than DL n UA n SW

I certainly hope not. American has proven through the years they have a viable business plan.... outside of a pandemic of course.

I hope the fact that they made the largest aircraft purchase in history and the fact they were given a bunch of dud 737's will put pressure on the aircraft manufactures to give American Airlines favorable refinancing terms. The government could also do a lot better job with assistance. Instead of bilking the taxpayers to fund this ridiculous CARES act the government could forgo collecting taxes on fuel and maintenance purchases. They could also wave airport fees. Not paying taxes and ridiculous fees for a period of time would help the airlines a lot.

But of course, cutting taxes and fees is a less effective political manipulation than securing your voter bases jobs with other people's money.

 

[eolesen]

Waiving airport fees just hurts the individual counties and bondholders who funded airport construction projects, so that's a non-starter if you're not trying to spend other peoples' money.

Not taxing fuel could go a long way. Likewise with ticket and cargo excise taxes.

In hindsight I'd say the Max grounding has been a net positive for just about everyone involved except for Boeing. Having already reacted to taking out capacity on a moments notice was a good proving run for what scheduling departments needed to do in March 2020.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Waiving airport fees just hurts the individual counties and bondholders who funded airport construction projects, so that's a non-starter if you're not trying to spend other peoples' money.

Alright. I was under the impression airports were on federal property and were funded by combination of federal and city funding. Thanks for the info.

Not taxing fuel could go a long way. Likewise with ticket and cargo excise taxes.

Agreed.

In hindsight I'd say the Max grounding has been a net positive for just about everyone involved except for Boeing. Having already reacted to taking out capacity on a moments notice was a good proving run for what scheduling departments needed to do in March 2020.

The proverbial cherry on the sh*t sunday.

 

[robbedagain]

I certainly hope not. American has proven through the years they have a viable business plan.... outside of a pandemic of course.

I hope the fact that they made the largest aircraft purchase in history and the fact they were given a bunch of dud 737's will put pressure on the aircraft manufactures to give American Airlines favorable refinancing terms. The government could also do a lot better job with assistance. Instead of bilking the taxpayers to fund this ridiculous CARES act the government could forgo collecting taxes on fuel and maintenance purchases. They could also wave airport fees. Not paying taxes and ridiculous fees for a period of time would help the airlines a lot.

But of course, cutting taxes and fees is a less effective political manipulation than securing your voter bases jobs with other people's money.

I hope not either. But like you pointed out as I have said to my colleagues the debt is worse than DL UA n SWA But I try to at very least educate people about the situation

 

[eolesen]

Alright. I was under the impression airports were on federal property and were funded by combination of federal and city funding. Thanks for the info.

There might be some Federal grants made available, but it's essentially the local government's property and debt.