American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I believe his point is why should taxpayers flip the bill for airline payrolls when they are now over staffed.

Exactly.

 

[eolesen]

Cobra rates for LUS, BCBS of Texas, 80/20 plan, single, dental, vision:
$500-600per month.

Sounds right. I was looking at Cobra rates of around $1400 a month a few years back. Would have almost been cheaper to go uninsured and pay out of pocket for any doctors visits that came up...

I don't understand why people have an expectation of Congress to cover payroll for employees an airline said it does not need.

Could be the govt waits till after layoffs and then addresses the airline situation. The covid problem has proven to be so severe and damaging the govt may have to look at handling airlines in a different way.

What's so special about airlines compared to restaurants, hotels, casinos, cruise lines, movie theaters, or amusement parks?... I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any outpouring of support for the 250,000 or so airline employees when millions of others are out of work.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

What's so special about airlines compared to restaurants, hotels, casinos, cruise lines, movie theaters, or amusement parks?

I have an answer for you but it would be very unpopular on this forum.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any outpouring of support for the 250,000 or so airline employees when millions of others are out of work.

I do wish communities would pull together at a LOCAL level and support each other through these rough times. Instead we have domestic terrorist (ANTIFA, BLM) looting, burning, vandalizing, assaulting, and murdering in their communities.

 

[T5towbar]

Sorry to hear that! What station(s) are closing?

I heard the same thing today at work. Scuttlebutt says it's JFK that is closing. I didn't know that we had people still there after we left. (Another one of Jeff's screwup ideas leaving JFK) I heard they do 3rd party work for OA, but I don't know anybody from there. The funny thing is that Scott is talking about getting back into JFK, but is waiting to see how the partnership with AA/B6 is going to pan out first. I know a lot of people who want to go back there since they were forced to come here, (and I think LGA is too senior) We'll see how things will work.

I didn't think that a lot of the line MX would get RIF letters. I thought that only 2500 or so got WARN letters. There are several IBT groups on property, so it can't be all AC MX.

 

[Paul B Williams]

if y'all could get AA Corporate in Dallas to acknowledge that I sent this to everyone including Doug Parker that would be great. Anywaaaayyyysss. Edited for the privacy of the people involved but here goes the story of dealing with people whose job is to pretend to give a....

As I have no idea of what timeframe of control I have remaining with regard to my access to JetNet, I found it prudent that I utilize the short time that I have to craft an honest, and transparent letter of profound thanks, and equal disappointment. As stated in my termination letter written by C. Kellam, I was hired on March 16, 2020 as a Reservaitions Sales Representative nonwithstanding an probationary period of 180 days of employment. It goes on to say "as a probationary employee, your attendance is unacceptable; therefore, your employment with AA is terminated effective today". My attendence being unacceptable is a far cry from the truth. It is here, and here alone that I have been fully invested in with zero return of vested help. And so my parable begins.


As one knowledgable of employment with the company I understood that in order to fulfil the role I was required to, it was critical that I position myself close to work regardless of the expense. I moved from New York City definitively on March 15, using the Amtrak, Greyhound, and Uber respectively, I arrived for class the night prior at 11pm. The Airbnb that I booked for the week utilized a lock combination mechinsm to which I was given instruction to open the door. I remained locked out until about 2am because the lock was seemingly faulty. After the host woke up and apologized for the trouble I was given a physical key to use and unlock the door. After completing the first day of training, I took a cab home because despite it being fifteen minutes away driving from work, no form of public transportation ran there. For the second time and day in a row, the owner had now managed to give me a physical key which would not open the door. This was my first day of employment, after strategically coming up here to avoid extra fees while figuring out how to come to a new state and incur as little expense as possible. It was also rather cold at that time so after waiting about two hours with no success at reaching the owner, I took another cab back to work and stayed on the couch on the second floor until the owner responded at 9pm, and picked me up and apologized again and took me to the airbnb. After having a shower, I came out of the bathroom to see the host's son attempting to have a conversation with me while I was attempting to finish dressing. Ultimately, he ended up asking me to "go home" with him and have him take me to work in the morning. This is day two of me transitioning to the state of North Carolina. After going to my room and obviously not being able to sleep I contacted Airbnb's emergency services to have me relocated. The entire process took 4 hours for me to be moved, and now I was forced to stay on West 6th Street in downtown Winston Salem. The morning I requuested a cab to get to work is when I realized that I needed to reposition my thought process in relation to taxi/uber efficiency in the south versus NYC. It took twenty minutes to arrive and I ended up arriving to training twelve minutes late.


During the weekened of the first week of training, I transitioned to NYC to get some of my things. I returned on Sunday, and slept, awakening to missed calls from the day before on the Monday morning of training. After getting ready for class and calling an uber, I returned the call to see that it was our training coordinator L. Boles who asked that I not return to class because NYC had been preemptively branded as the epicenter of Covid19. I attempted to logically reason with him, but the decision had been made that I could not return to training and needed to return home immediately and quarantine. I complied, and left that same day. After collecitng myself, I texted L to ask about how to get in contact with Corporate to review feasible terms of valid release for the company. I also posited that if I were to be released then the entire class should be seeing as I originated from NYC to begin with. He failed to return texts, and after approximately 90 minutes, my manager L Fleming called apologizing for the hasty decision, asking me if I was sure that I had no bad bad taste in my mouth after the encounter. I was granted the option to return either Wednesday, or the following Monday with me having one on one classes until I caught up with my class. Seeing as I had just canceled another airbnb that had been booked for the week (without reimbursement), I opted to restart the following Monday, and formulate a logical method to juggle expenses into a more financially friendly long term plan for employment. I ultimately opted to stay at West 6th street for an additional week, then book myself at a monthly rate at the Extended Stay that rests across the street of AA. For the first week and weekend of work, I had been locked out of a residence I paid for twice, deprived of sleep and phsycological equilibrium, and released for trying to transition; yet I digress.


Of notable interest was a day that I arrived to work too early on Monday because of a lack of ubers/taxis, and was refused entry because we had not yet been issued an ID. The old Caucasian security guard instructed me to stay outside since I had not been given a badge as yet. I was low on money and could not afford to take a cab back to the airbnb, and then back to work two hours later. As it was March, and still cold, I developed both a fever, and a draft in my eye waiting outside until 5:40 am that morning. He as well was quite warm after returning from my initial release subsequent to asking about contacting Dallas about being released for no reason.


During one point of training, my wife called me, telling me that our youngest son who was 16 months at the tme had developed a high fever. She was extremely hesistant to take him out publicly because of the new and unknown nature of the pandemic, and I consciously made the decision to ask to leave trainnig earlier to collaborate with her as to how to address our child's situation. The day after, I was called into speak with L once again to sign a document acknowledging that i had violated my second term of attendance policy during probation. Once again, without looking for an excuse, I assumed responsibility for my aciton and signed. I continued the daily commute via Uber from downtown to work becuase training started at 6am which was consequently when the bus started to run. I moved to the Extended stay for the month to ease the financial burden of moving in between work and my temporary place of residence.


During my matriculation through training, fraud managed to hit my debit card. In order to send a new debit card to me, Chase required that I arrive at a branch physically to verify my identity because of my change of address to a new state. I faced two options; take cabs to and from either Chapel Hill, NC, or Charlotte, NC hoping a bank would be open because public transporation had temporarily been suspended, or take one to an airport to go to NYC directly after training on Friday, and see an agent Saturday morning so I could have a card mailed out to me. At this point I was already paranoid about being released again if I went to NY, so I stayed for as long as I could eating from anywhere that would accept Sangsung Pay. When it was time to renew my stay at the Extended Stay, I asked multiple classmates if I could Zelle or Cashapp them, and they use their card physically at the motel because I did not have a card. I went as far as to ask my trainer, who initially responded to my text, but failed to acknolwedge me after explaining what my dilemma was. I was eventually forced to leave the Extended Stay and it was by the grace of a very dear friend overses who paid for me to stay a night at the Sleep Inn next door by booking it online for me at their expense. I gave away all of the food and toiletries that I bought from Sam's to the cleaner the next morning, and returned to NYC to show my face so I could have a debit card mailed to me. The next day, every flight from NYC out to CLT or GSO canceled or booted me. After I missed the final flight of the day by 1 person I hopped on a bus to Baltimore and took the first flight in the morning to CLT. From CLT, I took an exhorbitantly priced uber directly to training and arrived shortly after 9 am. Of course, being that I was three hours late; strike 3!!!


Ms.Kellam informed me of my contract being in a state of consideration for termination the next day. She asked me to recap what had happened to have me arrive at this place, and the above referenced story; with proof and receipt of every incident was retold to her. She informed me that regrettably it was out of her hands. I proceeded home after training and referenced the ethics hotline to file a complaint to bolster, and corroborate my story so a recordable version could be referenced. The agent who called from the Ethics team arranged/suggested I meet with my manager Ms. L. Fleming to explain everything to a management level representative. She empathized with me, but could ultimately offer one more chance, and the suggestion of deviated breaks to aid a lingering stomach problem developed from my inability to access healthy food with a budget that tightened daily. I accepted the chance and pressed on.


I subsequently moved to the Highland Oaks complex which is roughly a 12 minute walk from work. The move was centered around stability, and proximity to work. I continued through training and finished successfully; adjusting to the transition through every hardship faced alone. My statistics and reviews were always met with positivity, and applaud for my ability to take constructive criticism, and integrate it to my work ethic to further better myself. To date, I have only heard that I need to slow down as my brain's ability to process information quickly is failed by my mouth's inability to match its output.


My final strike occurred last Tuesday 21st July, 2020. I contracted food poisoning on my day off and tried to sleep it off. It continued, and I attempted to go to an urgent care to no avail. I decided that going to an ER would make no sense as most Covid cases were probably rampant there and I would put both myself, and my coworkers at risk after exiting. I attempted multiple times via the trade group to get swapped off; offering up to $50 for someone to take my shift. In the end I was only able to have the first hour, and last three hours taken.


Today, as I had the letter given to me, and was asked to leave the premises, there was an eerie feeling of tranquility about me. I am a man of high intellectual aptitude, and discernment to body and vocal tone based language. As Ms. Kellam left me at the elevator, she suggested I call the employee number to see what my options were referable to benefits because she knew I probably had some things to figure out in relation to moving back to NYC. How arrogant, and brass of someone to offhandedly tell someone good luck with re-adjusting your life in the middle of a pandemic again. How self absorbed must you be to say so without a hint of remorse or tone of empathy in your voice?


The intellectually impotent always find means to bolster their sense of self worth and validation through petty and passive acts of output. Many things are laughable. The fact that I tried over, and over to reference cashapp, or zelle to avoid going to NYC and avoid a strike, yet the word "cg" in the group chat meant for swaps and pick ups is used to signify how much is willing to be paid out to take a shift is laughable. The fact that both the ethics department and every level of managment up to L. Fleming knew the intimate detail of my experience is laughable. The fact that anyone assumed they were giving me a final chance after having an emotional breakdown in Ms. Fleming's office because of my ongoing situation is laughable. What is not funny is reference to my attendance being unacceptable. Had I died last Tuesday, I would've been replaced shortly after. Had I gone to the ER, and returned to work, I would've caused a scene. Do not compare me valuing my health, and having the benvolence to consider every other coworker in my vincity to an unacceptable version of my best self.


When I went to work after coming off food poisoning, my CCM, V. Johnson informed me of my impendeing fate. I crafted a letter to the highest levels of authority, in order to transparently voice my side which has been repetitively spat on. In my haste to not affect my adherence, I opted to apply for a flex 30, which I set up, but forgot to hit the submit button. I also used 13 minutes of my first break to finish the letter without editing it. When asking workforce to visually inspect my screen activity to see that I had set it up, and forgotten to hit the submit button they refused. I assume that would have been another strike to put me down; quite laughable.


This letter is to both the highest levels of authoity and those on a more immediate, and intimate level. Through recording, and social media based posting, it extends to the broad public as well if needed. It is a call to attention for the lack of discernment amongst most mid level members of management. The fact that I slept through tangential stories about work based situations. The fact that I refused to prioirtize socialization or anything beyond the improvement of my stats. These were contributing factors to my release; I don't require acceptance or denial to my hypothesis to know that. I'm well aware of the simple self absorbed nature of the human ego. I am not here to validate or satisfy it. It takes two hands to clap.


As I expect I will coincidentally lose access to JetNet shortly after this email's delivery, I've created contingency methods to contact me if anything I said had any margin of impact on your day. My next steps lay in finding another immediate form of financial security while concurrently working towards my prerequisites for my own professional endeavors. No, Ms. Kellam. I will not need to get my ducks in a row, so your favor and that number are not needed. Winston Salem, NC is now my home, and noone will move me off my base.


P.B Williams

 

[eolesen]

United still has a dozen employees at JFK in MX, and another couple in Cargo Sales. I'm told the most junior mechanic has a 1984 hire date, so 1977 isn't out of the question.

 

[swamt]

SWA
Don’t believe he said the airlines don’t need assistance, he said employees an airline says it doesn’t need. Layoffs I believe is what he I said talking about.

I believe his point is why should taxpayers flip the bill for airline payrolls when they are now over staffed.

My bad. I read it as airlines didn't want any more assistance in payroll protections from gov.

Correct about taxpayers flipping the bill. I have been in convo's when meeting new people and when they ask what I do, I sometimes hesitate now as I had one comment come back to me like this; "So why does the taxpayers have to help out you aviators all the while thousands upon thousands of other workers are just fired, laid off, furloughed, and jobless right now?" One even said, "At the rates the gov is paying in wages for aviation workers, they could be saving 2 or 3 jobs elsewhere for the same time period, and maybe 4 jobs in some other industries." I am thinking about starting to lie a bit and say I am an auto mechanic and leave the airline stuff out of it, to avoid possible confrontations. Someone I am meeting may have lost their job and hearing this could send them over the cliff and trigger a rather negative situation that could get out of hand. So think before you just spout out who you work for out in the general public, it does sting some folks badly.

 

[swamt]

Exactly.

Sorry bout that LuLu. I misread your first post. My bad.

Sounds right. I was looking at Cobra rates of around $1400 a month a few years back. Would have almost been cheaper to go uninsured and pay out of pocket for any doctors visits that came up...





What's so special about airlines compared to restaurants, hotels, casinos, cruise lines, movie theaters, or amusement parks?... I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any outpouring of support for the 250,000 or so airline employees when millions of others are out of work.

Yes. My point when I responded to Ground Interrupt. My "other industries" comment was concerning the foods industries with waiters waitresses, cooks, bus boys etc... I tend to hesitate now when asked what I do in public conversations. Some folks are pissed that we get all the help right now to keep our jobs. Thankfully we are blessed.
With all that said, this just shot across the news media, looks to gaining traction with all the doom and gloom from the airlines out there:

Majority Of House Backs Extension Of Airline Payroll Assistance

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrE1xwXGSBfGIYA1yZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEydGp0YnZuBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQzAwOTNfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1595967896/RO=10/RU=https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/27/majority-of-us-house-backs-new-bailout-for-us-passenger-airlines.html/RK=2/RS=ci_xGJENzSXLnvY2yx_fzD4Heao-

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I heard the same thing today at work. Scuttlebutt says it's JFK that is closing.

Jeesh.... that is terrible.

I hope you are wrong.

Thankfully Wikipedia paints a picture that is a bit more rosy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_International_Airport
On January 7, 2020, construction began on expanding and improving Terminal 8, which primarily serves American Airlines as well as some Oneworld members.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Sorry bout that LuLu. I misread your first post. My bad.

No problem.

Happens to us all.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I beg of you all, please do not depend on Congress to extend payroll support.

Start working on an exit strategy NOW.

Divest yourself of expenses if you can.

Analyze your monthly expenses and think of ways to save money or reallocate resources.

Try to have something to slide into October 1'st or develop a self improvement plan. If possible leverage your time to come back stronger. Learn a trade. Go to school. Finish that degree.

Do not allow hope to override good judgement, paralyzing you from taking steps to protect yourself. I know that seems like an obvious thing but when they shut down Fleet Service at TULE I saw so many people do nothing, waiting for the axe to fall due to false hope and fear. I don't want to see that sh*t show again.

Please, be proactive.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I suggest a wait and see posture. I don't think any airline would offer a package that would bankrupt the airline. Sorta defeats the purpose of an early out package, don't you think? If a $100,000 package is offered, I think there will be a limitation stipulated in the offer before a dime changes hands. Something like $100,000 to the first 1000--either seniority or first come first served to decide who gets the package. Then a "less generous" offer for others. This would get people to decide quicker on go or stay question because even if it's done by seniority there will still have to be a certain amount of first come, first served if you have 1001 with the same seniority.

as far as i know, those who have inquired about this latest package and have gotten a company response/guidance - no one from the company told them there is any kind of limit of takers/amount of compensation.

i believe this will make a ripple on the seniority list and more than a handful will leave. anyone under the age of 65 will get more than $100k into their insurance fund, and those at age 60 and under will get $150k into their fund.

during the earnings call, the company said that govt. money can't be used for severance packages. aa had over $7 billion of it's own liquidity going into this covid era and has raised other capital since.

many who are rejecting this package are those who had/have enough time and will get full pensions to keep a 'decent' income stream coming in - more so if they start drawing from social security. many of these types will die at work, they have no intention of leaving and never will - regardless of compensation for separating from the company.

these people are in their early 60s to 70s and have 40+ years. excluding 401k or other investments/personal cash, they can get a guaranteed $5k a month in income just from their pension/social security combined. they refuse to leave.

i do understand the danger of BK and i believe i was told the retirees would be the 4th in line creditors. if a retiree would get hit by BK, so would an employee who remains with aa. pick your poison.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

For the citizens of Tulsa.

This group offers government sponsored training for the unemployed and underemployed.

https://www.workadvance.org

Here are some of the training programs offered.

https://www.workadvance.org/available-training/

Hopefully if you live outside of Tulsa your community offers something similar.

I realize this option might not be for everyone and the career training offered lead to lesser paying jobs than American Airlines but, it would give SOME people opportunities and a path to better earnings while laid off, maybe even start them on a new career.

Also in many cases this training can simply be a stepping stone to something else. For example I know a welder by trade, the website estimates between 12 and 16 an hour, who actually makes a bit under 200K a year (oil pipeline). You may train as a Medical Assistant and take advantage of tuition reimbursement at the hospital to become an RN for instance. It is important to not just see opportunity at face value but the potential of future opportunity as well.

If this program helps one person through this rough time then it was worth my time (and tax dollars) to post it.

Also don't forget family members that may be in need of career development. Perhaps you have a young niece, cousin, or family friend with a dead end minimum wage job that could benefit from structured training and the opportunities that will bring.

For any that took the time to read this and have no interest thank you for your time and consideration.

For any that DO have an interest in a program like this but do not live in Tulsa I suggest calling your local unemployment office and making an inquiry. Also don't forget that many apprenticeship programs are registered through the state and they can help direct you.

For those of you who do consider this program and end up taking advantage of it due to this post I am happy I was able to provide you a resource to help you and hope it enriches your life.

https://www.facebook.com/TulsaCommunityWorkAdvance/

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Here are all the registered apprenticeship programs in Oklahoma.

https://oklahomaworks.gov/work-based-learning/apprenticeship-programs-in-oklahoma/

 

[eolesen]

Jeesh.... that is terrible.

I hope you are wrong.

Thankfully Wikipedia paints a picture that is a bit more rosy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_International_Airport
On January 7, 2020, construction began on expanding and improving Terminal 8, which primarily serves American Airlines as well as some Oneworld members.

Pretty certain that T5Towbar works at UA, not AA... but I might be wrong about that.