American Airlines workers try to dump union

[Hopeful]

Cheer up MCI AMT, according to F/Oaa, you will all be getting Date Of Hire seniority for bumping!





Posted: 8/9/2003 9:16:24 PM

F/Oaa

Newbie


Total Posts: 13
Last Post: 8/10/2003
Member Since: 7/12/2003

The Rumor is STL FSC are going to get DOH for bumping come Nov1st.
Its about time the TWALLC's got some good F--King NEWS!!!!!!







Don't have a Clue

 

[_AMT_MCI]

Would one of the union brother's in the south please look for my seniority...I seem to have lost about 23 years somewhere.

As a union member for close to 30 years never have I heard of a union taking another union's seniority and throwing it in the trash. After all that the companies have taken from it's employees the one item I felt sure of keeping was my seniority..wrong.

I can somewhat understand you peeps wanting change...but I believe a quick class in unionism would be a needed priority...and if I was AMFA..would I want you?

Tell me again how you didn't vote to take my seniority and how it was all the IAM's and Little's fault.

And do ya think AA management likes the strife and bickering between the 2 unions and the 3 overhaul plants...? As long as we are divided we are conquered.

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 8/11/2003 1058 AM _AMT_MCI wrote:

And do ya think AA management likes the strife and bickering between the 2 unions and the 3 overhaul plants...? As long as we are divided we are conquered.

----------------
​

Then tell all of your co-workers to sign the cards, call for the election and unite under the winner!

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 8/10/2003 8:41:38 PM RV4 wrote:


The Transport Workers Union of America
was investigated by Congress for UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITES....




----------------
And things were so civil this last while.
There has never been anything that our government has ever produced that was as "un-American" as the "Special Committee on Un-American Activities".
Mike Quill was a great leader who did whatever it took to improve the lives of his members, unlike todays leaders who tell us to give away everything that was gained over the last 50 while they collect six figure salaries and have lavish offices (annual rent, less than one Intnl reps salary short of $1million).
It is an unfair comparasion to associate Mike Quill with todays leaders.
​

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 8/11/2003 1058 AM _AMT_MCI wrote:

Would one of the union brother's in the south please look for my seniority...I seem to have lost about 23 years somewhere.

As a union member for close to 30 years never have I heard of a union taking another union's seniority and throwing it in the trash. After all that the companies have taken from it's employees the one item I felt sure of keeping was my seniority..wrong.
Well you can thank the fact that we have "franchise unionism" in this industry. If we had all been in one union like it should be then the issue of your seniority would have been established. While I can sympathize with your loss what about all those who came here before you, especially the EAL guys, who also had many years before AA? They got nothing, they had fought against concessions and allowed EAL to close their doors before submitting to unreasonable demands. Would justice be served by allowing TWA guys, who gave concession after concession to come in and bump them out?

I can somewhat understand you peeps wanting change...but I believe a quick class in unionism would be a needed priority...and if I was AMFA..would I want you?

Tell me again how you didn't vote to take my seniority and how it was all the IAM's and Little's fault.
There is no denying that we voted to not give you guys seniority. If you were given the option how would you guys have voted? How were the OZARK guys treated on the floor after they got their seniority?

And do ya think AA management likes the strife and bickering between the 2 unions and the 3 overhaul plants...? As long as we are divided we are conquered.
Have you looked at our present contract? If that is not defeated what is?

----------------
​

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 8/11/2003 6:49:11 PM Bob Owens wrote:

----------------
On 8/10/2003 8:41:38 PM RV4 wrote:


The Transport Workers Union of America
was investigated by Congress for UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITES....




----------------
And things were so civil this last while.
There has never been anything that our government has ever produced that was as "un-American" as the "Special Committee on Un-American Activities".
Mike Quill was a great leader who did whatever it took to improve the lives of his members, unlike todays leaders who tell us to give away everything that was gained over the last 50 while they collect six figure salaries and have lavish offices (annual rent, less than one Intnl reps salary short of $1million).
It is an unfair comparasion to associate Mike Quill with todays leaders.
----------------
​

Bob,
I AGREE WITH YOU!
The travesty as I read it is that the Local Americans were not willing to step in and support a movement to stop the destruction of the transit workers in NYC. This left Quill with apparently no option but to accept funding from the Communist to protect and save working Americans from corporate greed. I don't really blame the man, however, my only point is that it also appears that the same saving influence also had a major impact on the writing of the TWU Constitution, and thus, we are currently faced with the inability to change the TWU from within, which leads to an AMFA type of movement throughout the industry, and good Officers such as yourself being held in contempt for advocating change.
I do not claim that every worker at American Airlines who supports the TWU is today a Communist, but I tire of the claim that we can somehow "change this union from within", when it is clear that dicators are in charge with a Constitution influenced by a history of Communist backing.
It is ironic that a man that accepted funding from Communist was a leader willing to do anything to protect workers, while today we have leaders willing to do anything to defend corporate greed instead of the workers pay and benefits. What a contrast...
Quill would be rolling over if knew Sonny Hall and Jim Little.
Sorry if I struck a nerve with the Un-American postings, but that exact history is why we will never be able to change the TWU from within.

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 8/11/2003 7:01:53 PM RV4 wrote:




Bob,
I AGREE WITH YOU!
The travesty as I read it is that the Local Americans were not willing to step in and support a movement to stop the destruction of the transit workers in NYC. This left Quill with apparently no option but to accept funding from the Communist to protect and save working Americans from corporate greed. I don't really blame the man, however, my only point is that it also appears that the same saving influence also had a major impact on the writing of the TWU Constitution, and thus, we are currently faced with the inability to change the TWU from within, which leads to an AMFA type of movement throughout the industry, and good Officers such as yourself being held in contempt for advocating change.
The problem with the Communists was that they believed in a fantasy that greed can be eliminated from human beings. However as a group they had excellent organizational capabilities and that was their greatest contribution to the labor movement. Many were highly educated but naive, it took a long time for them to realize what Stalin really was. One thing that you had to respect was their courage, devotion to cause and tenacity. Even today, if there is a workers struggle, Communists show up at the scene and offer encouragement and support as other people shout out insults.
The main problem with the Constitution is that in reality its unenforcable in todays courts. Judges allow the President to do as he pleases, as in the recent Local 234 decision and our Contract, unless the Local or member can prove, his actions are "patently unreasonable" which is "practically impossible". So even if the Constitution says something, in reality it means nothing, the courts are allowing power hungry Union officials who have lost their way (thanks to the comfortable lifestyles they enjoy) ruin the movement. Ideals such as higher wages, increased benifits, shorter hours of work remain in the Constitutions but are ignored in favor of more members paying dues. After all more members paying dues make it easier to pay those $200,000/year salaries and the $900,000 rents.
I do not claim that every worker at American Airlines who supports the TWU is today a Communist, but I tire of the claim that we can somehow "change this union from within", when it is clear that dicators are in charge with a Constitution influenced by a history of Communist backing.
To me it seems more Fascist than Communist, either way its safe to say that democratic accountability is lacking. While in the least stringent standard it could be called democratic, in that votes are cast, in reality there is no accountable link between International officers and the rank and file. Change from within is possible, however, its very difficult. The best opportunity is the Convention which wont happen for another two years.However without an accountable, accurate transparent voting system in place the chances of any real meaningful reform are slight. There is some hope that in December Roger Toussaint will solidify Local 100 and have a united delegation, thats 120 delegates I believe, plus around 20 from Local 234 and maybe another 15 from the line locals. If you can split Tulsa and pick up the SWA flight atendants (who made progressive resolutions that were shot down) the Sonny team or Mike O'Brien team could be defeated.
It is ironic that a man that accepted funding from Communist was a leader willing to do anything to protect workers, while today we have leaders willing to do anything to defend corporate greed instead of the workers pay and benefits. What a contrast...
Greed, at $200,000/ year Sonnys claim that we are on the same team is pure rhetoric, we are not even in the same league.
Quill would be rolling over if knew Sonny Hall and Jim Little.
He would say "Tsh, tsh, tsh. Ta naire orm, I thought that little fecker Lindsly was bad".

Sorry if I struck a nerve with the Un-American postings, but that exact history is why we will never be able to change the TWU from within.


----------------​

 

[_AMT_MCI]

Fact: When TWA purchased Ozark they were dovetailed in, and unless I was blind to it all they were treated as fellow employees immediately.

Out of my career with TWA/AA I have had 2376 days of furlough due to my seniority. I went to the street and knew why...seniority rules...no hesitation, no questions. We have an older workforce here,true,but who could retire under the $27/mo per year served that the IAM got for us? Surely not the negotiators themselves.

Enough of my harping on the seniority...wears me thin.
Question being now is "How do we unionize the 3 overhaul bases together and ruin managements attempts to pit mechanic against mechanic in order to up production."

We have been told numerous times by management that if production doesn't go up the jobs will go south...are you all receiving the same BS treatment? I also would like to read somewhere your "Letters of Agreement" for your locals...are they all the same or are there agreements and wordings for each base?

In Solidarity...SC

 

[Wretched Wrench]

"We have been told numerous times by management that if production doesn't go up the jobs will go south...are you all receiving the same BS treatment?"

-------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, yes, we get it at the line stations, too. And they will do it, too. Not because this or that station had low productivity, but just to intimidate and cow us.

Working harder will not save your job. We have seen and heard it all before.

Just put in your time and go with the flow. There are far bigger forces at work here.

And sign up for a non-concessionary union. And withdraw all support from any TWU pres who voted for concessions.

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 8/12/2003 7:36:58 AM _AMT_MCI wrote:

Fact: When TWA purchased Ozark they were dovetailed in, and unless I was blind to it all they were treated as fellow employees immediately.
My guess is that you were not from Ozark.

We have an older workforce here,true,but who could retire under the $27/mo per year served that the IAM got for us? Surely not the negotiators themselves.
Ever consider voting No ?

"How do we unionize the 3 overhaul bases together and ruin managements attempts to pit mechanic against mechanic in order to up production."
All the overhaul bases have to do is vote NO. You cant pin the blame entirely on the IAM or TWU if you vote yes.
Production. They do the same on the line. All you have to do is look at STL and ask if performance is the key then why is STL getting hit so hard? The fact is routing and facilities determine where the work goes. Its a lot easier to change the management than permanently move the work around. As long as MIA has been open they have been threatening to close it yet it keeps on growing.



----------------
​