The engineers are nonunion and the 35K is about right to start.
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American Airlines Seeks Recall Of Laid-Off Workers
- Thread starter TWAnr
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MCI transplant
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- Jun 4, 2003
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<_< ------Sorry about that! I should have qualified that! What I should have said was: So much for "exploding starting wages" at AA, and the rest of the Airline Industry!!! Obviously it would be more advantageous to go into something other than the Airline business, but some of us no longer have that option!
No need to apologize, MCI. I figgered that's what you meant. I apologize.
I guess that's how the average starting pay for MEs works out to $54k; some take jobs paying $70k and some go to work at AA for $35k.
Maybe they think the flight benefits are worth it. Or they're terminally addicted to airplanes.
MCI transplant
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<_< ------ FWAA, Believe it or not, not to long ago, working for an Airline was a cut above the average job out there for pay, and benefits. When I first started working in his business, I was making more than some local executives. But that was in a regulated industry! But now, in a deregulated environment, things have changed quit a bet! But it didn't change overnight. And by the time one realized what direction the Industry was going, I, like many of my fellow AMT's, had too much time invested to just walk away from it.------ If I had it to do over, would I? ------- Probably! Because that's what I do! I'm an Aircraft Mechanic! Would I recommend it to an up and coming kid! ----- HELL NO! I'd tell him to go back to school, get a degree, and make something of himself! But stay the hell away from Aircraft!!!! This just isn't the same profession I started out with!
Joe Patroni
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I could not agree with you more. I tell people there are easier ways to make more money when I am asked about being an AMT. It was a sad day for me personally when reality finally set in when it became just another job.
After taking a quick glance through the 2007 article the highest increase for 2007 was 6.1%, and that was for Marketing, not everyone is comfortable having a career that is based upon deception.
Nurses are not even mentioned and of all the Engineers mentioned the highest was 5.4%. Inflation over the last 12 months was reported at over 7% so any gains were more than wiped out by inflation which is understated. Like I said, holding their own at best.
We effectively took at least another 6% paycut last year, thanks to the TWU and Jim Little.
TWA FA's were not stapled. I hear and read this, even in the mainstream media, over and over again. TWA was inserted into the AA seniority list, as a group, above over 1500 native AA FA's. Most of the AA FA's pushed below TWA were still on probation but 140+- were not on probation, including myself. Check the facts. Call APFA.
I know that this is a very sore subject, but as a non-probationary AA FA who lost her job the first time after 9/11 and the 2nd time after being recalled, when TWA was put on the AA list, it strikes a nerve to hear that TWA was stapled to the bottom. If that were true, I and many other original AA FA's would have been recalled and would not have expired after 5 years of furlough last October and prior to that. My seniority would have not gone down 3,000 or so.
I know most TWA FA's have many more years in the business than I do and I respect that. I work with many former TWA FA's today and they are among the best, the nicest and most professional FA's I have ever met. But imagine today, for example only, AA takes over US Airways and those FA's are inserted above the bottom 1500 people on the current AA list. How would everyone feel about that?
I hope everyone gets recalled that is still hanging on. My chance is gone.
Sorry you lost out. But the TWA F/As were stapled to the end of the seniority list that existed on 4/10/01. You were hired after that. They were stapled before you even got to TWA.
Hi. I was hired by American 03/01. Furloughed 10/01. Recalled 05/02. Furloughed 10/02. The reason I was recalled and furloughed again according to APFA was so that TWA could be put on the list. The agreement said something like no TWA FA could work in an AA cabin while an original non-probationary AA FA was furloughed. That is the only reason I was recalled. To merge the list. AA fully intended to furlough me again after using me for the summer and when that happened my seniority number went down 3,000 or so. This is info from APFA and it happened. The deal between TWA and AA was not ratified until 12/01.
Anyway, it really is water under the bridge now. It is what it is. The whole thing really stunk for everyone! The worst part for me or the final insult was that AMR charged me for my remaining uniform balance due (they took a couple hundred dollars out of my last check!!) even though the contract said if I was furloughed for more than a year it would be written off. APFA would not help me at all. I went all the way to the top and what APFA did was send my complaint to AMR corporate who sent me a nasty letter saying they were entitled to collect that from me. I hope that the newly elected President does a better job for those remaining. Good luck and take care.
I must be missing something here because my TWA spouse was recalled and went on the line Aug 24, 07. In her class were numerous AA F/As having seniority dates just before 4/10/01.
OP
TWAnr
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What was the date on which you graduated from FSU and received your wings? That is your occupational seniority date. Since AA flight attendant training was at least six weeks long, back in 2001, your occupational seniority date must have fallen after April 10, 2001.
Every single American Airlines flight attendant who was out of training and on the line as of April 10, 2001, is senior to all the former TWA flight attendants and was offered a recall before any of the TWAers were.
The TWA purchase was closed on April 10, 2001. That is the occupational seniority date of all the TWA flight attendants who had completed their probation prior to that date. The probationary TWA flight attendants received a December (IIRC) occupational seniority date. December 1 was the date on which TWA switched from PARS to Sabre, the TWA workforce went on American Airlines work rules and the seniority lists were merged.
Yes, there were furloughed AA people above TWA that were recalled first. I checked with a friend of mine who was in my class. We were hired and started training in March of '01 but our graduation date was 5/2/01. I guess that was the deciding factor when TWA was given 4/01. Honestly, no hard feelings here. AA does not treat people fairly and that is the bottom line. Have a good weekend.
You would lose that bet....LOL...Ex NWA 17 yrs line avionics and no desire to work at AA.
MCI transplant
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:angry: ------- I heard yesterday that Kasher had given the TWU what they wanted in regards to the LAX recall. The nAAtive American AMT's will be recalled before the exTWAer's irregardless of Seniority! Let it be noted that the exTWAer's were "NOT" represented at the meeting, and were "NOT" given the opportunity to argue their side of the issue!!! Which has been true in all cases involving Kasher!!!! In fact, in the case of exTWAer's on the property, the Union dues we pay the TWU are used against us, and our fellow colleges!!! Under Article#28a, of their own Contract it states: "There will be no discrimination against anyone over the issues of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation!" But it seems the exTWAer's are fair game!!!
kirkpatrick
Veteran
TWAnr is right. The TWA people still in training on the date of acquisition got a seniority date of 12/17/01, the date the SIA was signed. About a thousand natives whose online dates fell after the acquisition went behind us.
Until the merging of the seniority lists on 11/1/02, people were furloughed from both sides as the needs of the operation dictated. There was a small group of you guys who were briefly recalled and furloughed again. These people fell of the recall list on 10/13/07, missing the extension by a mere two weeks.
AA and APFA both wanted to merge the seniority lists knowing more furloughs would be coming. The SIA said the seniority lists would be merged on the first day of the month following the day a TWA FA first worked an AA cabin, or 12/31/02, whichever came first. So AA put out a proffer for training to go over to the AA side, creating SLT alongside STL, the LLC base. 23 TWA FA's went through three weeks in Sept allowing the seniority lists to be merged on 11/1/02, thereby assuring all future forloughs would hit the TWA people. The rest is history.
One thing I've found out on the line is that there is very little concern for those who've fallen off by the active FA's. Most don't even know it happened. I have a bag tag that says "Recall for All" and when they question me about it I tell them over half those who've fallen off were originally hired by AA, not TWA, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in bringing them back.
It is a win - win situation for all if they're brought back. The company can forego the whole interview process, the retraining can be abbreviated as it was for us, and they are all at or near the bottom of the payscale. It just makes sense to extend the recall rights to include the falloffs.
MK
