Insurgent Union Fails In Representation Bid

[twuer]

I get so sick and tired of reading your opinionated history lessons Bobby!!! Did this, did that, attrition this attrition that, layoffs are a given in this industry, blah, blah ,blah blah, blah!!!!!

Sept 11th changed this industry FOREVER and AA (and it's employees) is in the best situation right now than any of the other major carriers. WE are the biggest therefore it costs more to operate, that is just common sense. WE HAD THE HIGHEST PAY JUST MONTHS BEFORE 9-11. WERE YOU SINGING THE PRAISES THEN??????????? I doubt it.

Let Delle and amfa handle things he would rather see the company AND it's unionized workers go to hell in a handbag!! It's already happening!!!!!! Let's not forget to mention the pension slashing. Tell me, what kind of effect do you think that will have on the industry??????

You keep right on believing that amfa is the answer. Like High Speed Steel mentioned, Delle has been in this business longer than anyone and still can't get his crap together long enough to run a successful union for any length of time. Put the lives of thousands of more people in his hands, the lives of my familyand friends................HELL NO!!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

[Rusty]

I get so sick and tired of reading your opinionated history lessons Bobby!!! Did this, did that, attrition this attrition that, layoffs are a given in this industry, blah, blah ,blah blah, blah!!!!!

Well then don't read it!!!

Sept 11th changed this industry FOREVER and AA (and it's employees) is in the best situation right now than any of the other major carriers. WE are the biggest therefore it costs more to operate, that is just common sense. WE HAD THE HIGHEST PAY JUST MONTHS BEFORE 9-11. WERE YOU SINGING THE PRAISES THEN??????????? I doubt it.

Wrong twuer, even with the NWA AMFA contract we received in 2002, we were not the highest paid of the major carriers.

Let Delle and amfa handle things he would rather see the company AND it's unionized workers go to hell in a handbag!! It's already happening!!!!!! Let's not forget to mention the pension slashing. Tell me, what kind of effect do you think that will have on the industry??????

LMAO Delle would rather what in a handbag? LMAO again. I think you are mixed up twuer, it is Jimmy Little that continues to get raises while twu workers continue to be given concessions.

You keep right on believing that amfa is the answer. Like High Speed Steel mentioned, Delle has been in this business longer than anyone and still can't get his crap together long enough to run a successful union for any length of time. Put the lives of thousands of more people in his hands, the lives of my familyand friends.

Thats funny twuer, AMFA is the fastest growing union in the airline business. Perhaps you need to cut back on your prescription just a bit!!!

[post="186259"][/post]​

 

[twuer]

I get so sick and tired of reading your opinionated history lessons Bobby!!! Did this, did that, attrition this attrition that, layoffs are a given in this industry, blah, blah ,blah blah, blah!!!!!

Well then don't read it!!!
Smart a**!!!!

Sept 11th changed this industry FOREVER and AA (and it's employees) is in the best situation right now than any of the other major carriers. WE are the biggest therefore it costs more to operate, that is just common sense. WE HAD THE HIGHEST PAY JUST MONTHS BEFORE 9-11. WERE YOU SINGING THE PRAISES THEN??????????? I doubt it.

Wrong twuer, even with the NWA AMFA contract we received in 2002, we were not the highest paid of the major carriers.
Maybe you need to check the record books Rusty. I do believe that the TWU received the industry leading contract including the highest wages.

Let Delle and amfa handle things he would rather see the company AND it's unionized workers go to hell in a handbag!! It's already happening!!!!!! Let's not forget to mention the pension slashing. Tell me, what kind of effect do you think that will have on the industry??????

LMAO Delle would rather what in a handbag? Okay, plain and simple.....pay attention now......Delle says, SCREW YOU!!!! LMAO again. I think you are mixed up twuer, it is Jimmy Little that continues to get raises while twu workers continue to be given concessions.
I notice you didn't want to touch my last question regarding the pensions, hey Rusty??????

You keep right on believing that amfa is the answer. Like High Speed Steel mentioned, Delle has been in this business longer than anyone and still can't get his crap together long enough to run a successful union for any length of time. Put the lives of thousands of more people in his hands, the lives of my familyand friends.

Thats funny twuer, AMFA is the fastest growing union in the airline business. Perhaps you need to cut back on your prescription just a bit!!!
Amfa has stopped growing Rusty........you can count on that!!!!! Their true identity has been revealed. Look for amfa to shrink in the very near future!!!!!! Heck the support alone has already begun to diminish!!!! WHAT A SHAME!!

 

[High Speed Steel]

I don't know why you twu cultists insist on the concessions for jobs (dues) theory is the answer. Its history that shows it does not work! Layoffs are part of the airline industry, and always will be. No union can stop them, and your beloved twu is included. Giving away 50 years of hard won benefits and pay is not the way to go, I don't know why its so hard to understand for you Tulsa "at least I got me this here job for Wal Mart wages" twu bubbas.

When is Do-little going to have his friends in management "show us the shared sacrifice"? Still waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and.....
Damn sure looks like Do-littles' not worried at all about his "shared sacrifice", he and his worthless cronies got they're raises this year. Well into the six figures.

How low will you go hss? We know how low the twu will go for dues monies, look at the twu at US Air...... THREE TIMES THEY HAVE WILLINGLY GIVEN CONCESSIONS!!!! THE CARRIER IS STILL FAILING!!!! Yet management walks away with millions for running the airline into the ground. The twu International still gets a few more $$$ from the members for the unelected twu fat cats until they go down the pipe for good. Thanks for the concessions fella's, sorry they didn't work for you, bye bye now.

We at AA have the OSM/SRP program, prefunding, Flex Benefits, outsourcing, and many other CONCESSIONS for YEARS!!!! We still can't compete!!!! So your answer
is to just keep on giving??? What about those "twu brothers" who are on the line? They can't be in Tulsa with the cheap living you enjoy!!!! Screw those guys huh??? As long as I got me this here job...... You make me ill.

Misery is right, prolonged by the twu DUE$ MACHINE $$$$$

[post="186092"][/post]​

Hey Hackman,

Why don't you post some positives about the amfa? Come on now, dazzle me with some of your "amfa cultist Bull $hitttt"...!!!!! Really now Hackman "think hard", tell me what it is that really flips your switch. I will help you to get started with some issues that are allready pretty well considered to be factual, give me some new stuff........See below


1. FM1= Dead issue
2. FM2= Dead issue
3. 50%+1 at AA for a vote= Dead issue
4. Recall of national officers= Too many holes in it
5. Willing to debate in public forum= Lack charisma to face truth
6. Lead by a realestate tycoon= Proven Fact
7. Vote on all letters of agreement= Bull $hitttt
8. Leading industry on outsourcing= Proven Fact
9. Better off in Bankruptcy= " Proof is in the pudding"
10.



O.K. Hackman,
I left open number 10 for you to begin and post some "proof positive" to your support of the amfa.......Good Luck and enjoy


----------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Bob Owens]

I get so sick and tired of reading your opinionated history lessons Bobby!!! Did this, did that, attrition this attrition that, layoffs are a given in this industry, blah, blah ,blah blah, blah!!!!!

Sept 11th changed this industry FOREVER and AA (and it's employees) is in the best situation right now than any of the other major carriers. WE are the biggest therefore it costs more to operate, that is just common sense.
[

[post="186274"][/post]​

Well speaking of history would you please turn to the TWU Grievance Guide for shop stewards?

History of American Airlines at TWU

Is that right, shouldnt it be the other way around, History of the TWU at AA?

"Back in 1944, members of an independant (by the way the AFL-CIO did not exist yet the CIO, which the TWU belonged to was considered the insurgent labor movement that was a threat to the old AFL) mechanics group came to the TWU and asked for help. They were members of a group called Airline Mechanics Association {ALMA}, a company union that rolled over and played dead for management during the second World War.

ALMA's idea of collective bargaining was to keep wages frozen during the war. Their policy of promotion was based on who you knew, not the union based principle of seniority.

Americans employees came to the TWU because we had shook the world of business by organizing the largest US based international carrier. PanAmerican World Airways, and had brought union wages and working conditions to workers who were underpaid and overworked.


Now it is often said that history repeats itself. Lets look at this one sentence at a time.


Back in 1944, members of an independant mechanics group came to the TWU and asked for help.

Now mechanics from the TWU are going to AMFA for help.

They were members of a group called Airline Mechanics Association {ALMA}, a company union that rolled over and played dead for management during the second World War.

Now they are members of a company union called the TWU that has rolled over and played dead for the company for over 20 years.

ALMA's idea of collective bargaining was to keep wages frozen during the war.

The TWUs idea of collective bargaining is to sign in the most concessionary contract in history "without further ratification". When the TWU met with the company they did not ask for anything from the company, even things that had no cost factors such as eliminating Part time language from our contract. When Chuck Schalk added that these requests would cost nothing he was told that "We are not in a position to ask for anything". The company told the union how much they had to cut, what they felt each thing was worth and what cuts they would accept. THats the TWUs idea of collective bargaining. Its worse than what Mike Quill said about not having the ability to strike-collective begging, with the TWU we could not even beg, just accept.

Their policy of promotion was based on who you knew, not the union based principle of seniority.

The TWU has adopted the Tech Crew Chief classification which is not determined by seniority but rather by a 3 to 2 panel consisting of three management to two union. TCC are also considered a part of the CC classification as far as the staffing
ratio. So more and more people in the CC classification are those chosen by management instead of the union and not by seniority.

Americans employees came to the TWU because we had shook the world of business by organizing the largest US based international carrier. PanAmerican World Airways, and had brought union wages and working conditions to workers who were underpaid and overworked.

AMFA shook the world of business unions after being voted out by several airlines following both contractual losses and victories.

At NWA, despite years of bargaining and the highest profits ever the IAM brought back a pitiful contract, they said that was the best they could do-the members decided that if that was the best they could do it was time for them to go-they voted out the IAM, voted in AMFA and then got raises that were 100% higher than what the IAM had presented.

At UAL the IAM sold the mechanics down the river, allowing the company to layoff thousands. The IAM had hoped that once the majority were laid off that AMFA organizers would be unable to get cards from them, they were wrong, they got the cards and they too voted out the IAM and got AMFA. Unfortunately UAL workers are stuck with the IAM concessions for the six year term of the contract.

At SWA, despite the fact that the industry was hemeraging money and laying off thousands the IBT was able to get a decent contract from the perenially profitable SWA. It didnt matter, the mechanics did not like the heavy handed style of the IBT and voted in the AMFA.




Now lets look at your statement;

Sept 11th changed this industry FOREVER and AA (and it's employees) is in the best situation right now than any of the other major carriers.


Are you saying that Sept 11 was the greatest cataclysm our nation or industry ever faced? Do you think it was a greater cataclysm than WWII? Over 50 million people died as a result of WWII. Over 400,000 Americans. Obviously there is no equitable comparasion between the two. However the TWU blasts ALMA for putting in pay freezes during the 4 years of the war, yet here the TWU agreed to massive pay and benifit cuts for six years. Over the last twenty years, even during times of recird profits the twu has agreed to several years of pay freezes. Here the TWU agreed to open the contract in order to cut pay and benifits by around 25%. THey opened the contract that came on the heels of a concessionary 6 year six percent contract that lagged inflation by 12 percent and also created a subclass of permanently lower paid mechanics! That concessionary contract was in effect throughout the most profitable era the industry ever saw!

So ALMA was considered an incompetant company union because the agreed to pay freezes for the four years of the greatest cataclysm in modern history, yet you defend the TWU when they have agreed to massive pay and benifits cuts due to a recession and a terrorist attack.

While I agree that AA has the best situation compared to other carriers the same is not true for its workers. We have suffered huge income losses that are greater than those experienced at other carriers. We certainly are in nowhere near as good of a position as employees of SWA who will be making nearly $400 a week more than us with more vacation, less out of pocket for medical, more sick time, holiday pay etc.

WE are the biggest therefore it costs more to operate, that is just common sense.

Is it? Normally the bigger you are the lower your unit costs, and thats what matters. Of course total costs would be higher, thats common sense, but the efficiency that size should bring should benifit both the company and the workers and not be an excuse for lower pay and benifits dummy. What kind of a unionist would accept such a philosophy? Maybe you should go to the Meany school. Maybe they can teach you the real basics of unionism.

Actually your pro-company-union ignorance is only to be expected. The TWU does not promote due to ability, they want people who can turn their backs on those they used to work with. Thats why they often hire Presidents who are voted out by their members. People who will give complete loyalty to the International, no matter how they screw the members. You know, "the apathetic membership that does not participate". Thats how we end up with International Reps who cant even identify what an industrial union is and others claim that the bigger the company the less they can afford to pay their workers because their costs are higher due to their larger size.

So in other words we would have been better off never giving AA concessions so they would have stayed smaller and could have paid us more, but since the TWU wanted more dues we were forced to help AA grow so we could make less?

 

[Hackman]

Hey Hackman,

Why don't you post some positives about the amfa? Come on now, dazzle me with some of your "amfa cultist Bull $hitttt"...!!!!! Really now Hackman "think hard", tell me what it is that really flips your switch. I will help you to get started with some issues that are allready pretty well considered to be factual, give me some new stuff........See below
1. FM1= Dead issue
2. FM2= Dead issue
3. 50%+1 at AA for a vote= Dead issue
4. Recall of national officers= Too many holes in it
5. Willing to debate in public forum= Lack charisma to face truth
6. Lead by a realestate tycoon= Proven Fact
7. Vote on all letters of agreement= Bull $hitttt
8. Leading industry on outsourcing= Proven Fact
9. Better off in Bankruptcy= " Proof is in the pudding"
10.
O.K. Hackman,
I left open number 10 for you to begin and post some "proof positive" to your support of the amfa.......Good Luck and enjoy
----------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

[post="186339"][/post]​

Oh 'scuz me! Here we have a twu bubba that wants to be edumacated by someone other than another team twu bubba? Like I always say, there are some you just can't reach. That is the case here with you, I do believe. You didn't answer one of my questions, not one! Now you want me to give you more of what your twu kind hates; The stark reality of why the twu blows compared to AMFA? You can't deal with it judging by your sniveling , and it won't do nothin' but waste my time giving you what "flips my switch". Most of it has been posted by me and many others here, you've still got this "Uhhh, ya but" look on your face.

We are into ANOTHER AMFA card drive hss. We have fairly solid (and decreasing by the month) numbers after the all the AA/twu/NMB fraud of where we will need to be in 355 days to finally dump the worthless twu. The falsehoods and dirty tricks got your twu into a deeper hole than you ever imagined, and just prolonged the agony. That makes us in the AMFA organizers group see this to the end with more determination than ever. The twu can't stop this drive anymore than they pretend to represent the M@R intrests at AA.

Please hss, keep thinking you won and its over. Good Luck to you too.

 

[Strake]

Here's one positive for the amfa guys at NWA, they got themselves about a $5.00 an hour raise in pay after they sold out there fellow workers by voting in the amfa. Do you think in these times the same scenario would be duplicated at AA if the amfa were to get on the property? Fat chance. Forty Seven point One percent of the mechanics at NWA were laid off after the amfa became their bargaining agent. Is that a plus? I guess it is if you are an amfa sellout. The amfa has proven time and time again that they are the best at allowing the outsourcing of work and the jobs that go with it. The amfa doesn't seem to mind if your pensions get gutted. The amfa supporters here like to whine about the TWU's leadship but when you look at it's performance compared to the amfa's, there is just no comparison. The TWU wins by a landslide. The amfa supporters claim having the amfa as a BA is the way to go. Really? What "good" have they done in the past? The amfa has proven they can not protect "the work", they can not protect your job, and do not care about protecting your pension. Who needs them??? The amfa will show you on their website that they represent about 18,000 mechanics at eight airlines. What they don't show you are the mechanics they represent that are on the street. I estimate about 10,000 too 11,000 on the street. Not good. I urge every mechanic worth his salt not to even sign a card, its a no-brainer. WE do not want or need the amfa :down: Their track record shows how totally enept they really are.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Oh 'scuz me! Here we have a twu bubba that wants to be edumacated by someone other than another team twu bubba? Like I always say, there are some you just can't reach. That is the case here with you, I do believe. You didn't answer one of my questions, not one! Now you want me to give you more of what your twu kind hates; The stark reality of why the twu blows compared to AMFA? You can't deal with it judging by your sniveling , and it won't do nothin' but waste my time giving you what "flips my switch". Most of it has been posted by me and many others here, you've still got this "Uhhh, ya but" look on your face.

We are into ANOTHER AMFA card drive hss. We have fairly solid (and decreasing by the month) numbers after the all the AA/twu/NMB fraud of where we will need to be in 355 days to finally dump the worthless twu. The falsehoods and dirty tricks got your twu into a deeper hole than you ever imagined, and just prolonged the agony. That makes us in the AMFA organizers group see this to the end with more determination than ever. The twu can't stop this drive anymore than they pretend to represent the M@R intrests at AA.

Please hss, keep thinking you won and its over. Good Luck to you too.

[post="186407"][/post]​

So you want me to answer one of your questions, so here you go. As far as any further news on the Shared Sacrifice, I have heard nothing. Yet I am curious to any additional progress, or information by Jim on this issue....Question answered to the best of my ability, satisfied Hackman..?

"Oh Yeah", I will go ahead and answer your other question to on how low I am willing to go. I am at "Rock Bottom, Hackman".....Question answered to the best of my ability, satisfied Hackman...?

Now by the rhetoric within your post. I see that you still cannot post anything positive about the amfa! How many times have we had this discussion now Hackman? I still get the same from you that the informatin has allready been posted by others. This only prooves that you are not a Leader Hackman, only a follower. Like many amfa supporters I have encountered, you are exactly the type of organizer that amfa desires.

"One who will follow and ignore the facts"...!!! :blink: :huh: :blink:

----------------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Rusty]

Here's one positive for the amfa guys at NWA, they got themselves about a $5.00 an hour raise in pay after they sold out there fellow workers by voting in the amfa.

[post="186442"][/post]​

Strake, lies and half truths will not get you anywhere.

You seem to assume a few voted in AMFA for the majority, how is that??? If that were true they would have been decertified and no union would be at NWA.

After the IAM was booted out of the mechanic and related business at NWA, the AMFA membership negotiated a 46% increase in pay and benefits. You should know this, as the twu at AA rode on their coattails and gained a couple of cents over them, of course the benefits far outweighed ours and the scope language is light years ahead, also they had to leap frog the industry as they were near the bottom under the afl-cio IAM. Since then we have taken over a 30% cut in pay and benefits plus thousands laid off. All in all, even though your 46% figure far exceeds the truth, we have taken a much bigger hit. The difference is at NWA, they have held the line on pay and benefits where the twu blows away like a house of straw. As you know the President of the united States had to step in and stop them from striking for better pay and benefits. When was the last time the twu had the gonads to say boo to the company??? All the twu can do is go boohoo, it really is pathetic.

This next sentence of yours following the first, suggest they did very good, which seems to contradict your first sentence. Either that or you think "sold out fellow workers" is a good thing.

Do you think in these times the same scenario would be duplicated at AA if the amfa were to get on the property? Fat chance.

Perhaps a class in sentence structure would help, just a suggestion!!!

Forty Seven point One percent of the mechanics at NWA were laid off after the amfa became their bargaining agent. Is that a plus?

I am not sure if what you said is a plus or a minus. Are you saying the 46 points were before AMFA became their bargaining agent??? Again, that class may help!!! See if you can figure this out Strake. We took a 30% pay and benifit cut, will it take close to a 60% increase to return to where we were?

The amfa has proven time and time again that they are the best at allowing the outsourcing of work and the jobs that go with it. The amfa doesn't seem to mind if your pensions get gutted.

So, you think the AMFA memberships allow their work, their jobs, and their pensions to go out the door. Perhaps a psychologist can help you on this matter!!!

The amfa supporters here like to whine about the TWU's leadship but when you look at it's performance compared to the amfa's, there is just no comparison.

True, we think leadership should be accountable to the people that hire them!!!

The TWU wins by a landslide. The amfa supporters claim having the amfa as a BA is the way to go. Really? What "good" have they done in the past? The amfa has proven they can not protect "the work", they can not protect your job, and do not care about protecting your pension.

The twu wins what by a landslide??? Again, a psychologist may be able to help you on this matter!!!

Who needs them???

Are you asking: Who needs the memberships input??? Certainly not the twu, they have an agenda and it only includes us for the dues money!!!

The amfa will show you on their website that they represent about 18,000 mechanics at eight airlines. What they don't show you are the mechanics they represent that are on the street. I estimate about 10,000 too 11,000 on the street. Not good.

LMAO, on this one you need a basic math class. Your 46 or (47 points?), are now 55% to over 61%. OK, OK, I have to admit you are correct in twu math but, the world has yet to decode it. You guys need to have a meeting and get all your stories straight or better yet just start telling the truth for a change!!!

I urge every mechanic worth his salt not to even sign a card, its a no-brainer. WE do not want or need the amfa. Their track record shows how totally enept they really are.

Strake, urging people to not sign a card so the membership cannot vote is not the answer to your predicament. Try this:

1. Tell the membership they don't like having control of their union and do like the idea of being told what they will receive in pay, benefits, and work rules.

2. Tell the membership they should like the idea of having unaccountable officers to decide their fate.

3. Keep telling the membership they should not have the ability to vote on Letters of Agreement because they are stupid and Jim Little is smart.

4. Keep telling the membership that a monkey could do their work.

5. Tell the membership that the 3.1 million the company is paying the twu is for medicinal purposes.

6. Tell the membership that Bobby Gless (twu international Officer) is being paid 120,000 pr/yr by the company to better serve pancakes or some other food item (perhaps it will confuse them enough to advance your agenda).

7. Tell the membership that twu international officer are paid similar to company executives because they have so much responsibility and they will leave if not paid executive wages, therefore what rank and file members make, has no bearing.

8. Tell the membership to get involved so that the twu does not have to take responsibility for their action.

9. Tell the membership that when they voted to not build a new union hall in Tulsa that they were actually voting yes. In other words convince them that no means yes and yes means yes. Kinda like our contract!!!

10. Tell the membership that the AMFA drive is over and that the twu has won because they will not get to vote.

PS: In addition too and after your class to help you with your Math and English, oh and getting the Psychological help, and presuming you still advocate the twu (not very likely afterward but, just suppose), perhaps you could become an instructor of the twu's patented rank and file position. Have the membership practice touching their toes while their knees are locked. Tell them to do this while trying to hold the position for longer and longer periods of time and that it may help to grab their ankles. I got that last part from a poster on the-mechanic.com who seems to understand twu physics!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Just want to make sure TWUer didnt miss this one.

Well speaking of history would you please turn to the TWU Grievance Guide for shop stewards?
History of American Airlines at TWU

Is that right, shouldnt it be the other way around, History of the TWU at AA?
"Back in 1944, members of an independant (by the way the AFL-CIO did not exist yet the CIO, which the TWU belonged to was considered the insurgent labor movement that was a threat to the old AFL) mechanics group came to the TWU and asked for help. They were members of a group called Airline Mechanics Association {ALMA}, a company union that rolled over and played dead for management during the second World War.

ALMA's idea of collective bargaining was to keep wages frozen during the war. Their policy of promotion was based on who you knew, not the union based principle of seniority.

Americans employees came to the TWU because we had shook the world of business by organizing the largest US based international carrier. PanAmerican World Airways, and had brought union wages and working conditions to workers who were underpaid and overworked.


Now it is often said that history repeats itself. Lets look at this one sentence at a time.

Back in 1944, members of an independant mechanics group came to the TWU and asked for help.

Now mechanics from the TWU are going to AMFA for help.

They were members of a group called Airline Mechanics Association {ALMA}, a company union that rolled over and played dead for management during the second World War.

Now they are members of a company union called the TWU that has rolled over and played dead for the company for over 20 years.

ALMA's idea of collective bargaining was to keep wages frozen during the war.

The TWUs idea of collective bargaining is to sign in the most concessionary contract in history "without further ratification". When the TWU met with the company they did not ask for anything from the company, even things that had no cost factors such as eliminating Part time language from our contract. When Chuck Schalk added that these requests would cost nothing he was told that "We are not in a position to ask for anything". The company told the union how much they had to cut, what they felt each thing was worth and what cuts they would accept. THats the TWUs idea of collective bargaining. Its worse than what Mike Quill said about not having the ability to strike-collective begging, with the TWU we could not even beg, just accept.

Their policy of promotion was based on who you knew, not the union based principle of seniority.

The TWU has adopted the Tech Crew Chief classification which is not determined by seniority but rather by a 3 to 2 panel consisting of three management to two union. TCC are also considered a part of the CC classification as far as the staffing
ratio. So more and more people in the CC classification are those chosen by management instead of the union and not by seniority.

Americans employees came to the TWU because we had shook the world of business by organizing the largest US based international carrier. PanAmerican World Airways, and had brought union wages and working conditions to workers who were underpaid and overworked.

AMFA shook the world of business unions after being voted out by several airlines following both contractual losses and victories.

At NWA, despite years of bargaining and the highest profits ever the IAM brought back a pitiful contract, they said that was the best they could do-the members decided that if that was the best they could do it was time for them to go-they voted out the IAM, voted in AMFA and then got raises that were 100% higher than what the IAM had presented.

At UAL the IAM sold the mechanics down the river, allowing the company to layoff thousands. The IAM had hoped that once the majority were laid off that AMFA organizers would be unable to get cards from them, they were wrong, they got the cards and they too voted out the IAM and got AMFA. Unfortunately UAL workers are stuck with the IAM concessions for the six year term of the contract.

At SWA, despite the fact that the industry was hemeraging money and laying off thousands the IBT was able to get a decent contract from the perenially profitable SWA. It didnt matter, the mechanics did not like the heavy handed style of the IBT and voted in the AMFA.




Now lets look at your statement;
Sept 11th changed this industry FOREVER and AA (and it's employees) is in the best situation right now than any of the other major carriers.


Are you saying that Sept 11 was the greatest cataclysm our nation or industry ever faced? Do you think it was a greater cataclysm than WWII? Over 50 million people died as a result of WWII. Over 400,000 Americans. Obviously there is no equitable comparasion between the two. However the TWU blasts ALMA for putting in pay freezes during the 4 years of the war, yet here the TWU agreed to massive pay and benifit cuts for six years. Over the last twenty years, even during times of recird profits the twu has agreed to several years of pay freezes. Here the TWU agreed to open the contract in order to cut pay and benifits by around 25%. THey opened the contract that came on the heels of a concessionary 6 year six percent contract that lagged inflation by 12 percent and also created a subclass of permanently lower paid mechanics! That concessionary contract was in effect throughout the most profitable era the industry ever saw!

So ALMA was considered an incompetant company union because the agreed to pay freezes for the four years of the greatest cataclysm in modern history, yet you defend the TWU when they have agreed to massive pay and benifits cuts due to a recession and a terrorist attack.

While I agree that AA has the best situation compared to other carriers the same is not true for its workers. We have suffered huge income losses that are greater than those experienced at other carriers. We certainly are in nowhere near as good of a position as employees of SWA who will be making nearly $400 a week more than us with more vacation, less out of pocket for medical, more sick time, holiday pay etc.

WE are the biggest therefore it costs more to operate, that is just common sense.

Is it? Normally the bigger you are the lower your unit costs, and thats what matters. Of course total costs would be higher, thats common sense, but the efficiency that size should bring should benifit both the company and the workers and not be an excuse for lower pay and benifits dummy. What kind of a unionist would accept such a philosophy? Maybe you should go to the Meany school. Maybe they can teach you the real basics of unionism.

Actually your pro-company-union ignorance is only to be expected. The TWU does not promote due to ability, they want people who can turn their backs on those they used to work with. Thats why they often hire Presidents who are voted out by their members. People who will give complete loyalty to the International, no matter how they screw the members. You know, "the apathetic membership that does not participate". Thats how we end up with International Reps who cant even identify what an industrial union is and others claim that the bigger the company the less they can afford to pay their workers because their costs are higher due to their larger size.

So in other words we would have been better off never giving AA concessions so they would have stayed smaller and could have paid us more, but since the TWU wanted more dues we were forced to help AA grow so we could make less? By the way I spoke to a crew of cabin cleaners today. To a man they told me "Give me a card, any card, and I will sign it". There were about 7 people on the crew, so, 20 left to go.

 

[Checking it Out]

For every person who signed a card last drive, two are saying no this time! Sorry Charlie Brown, amfa lost their oppurtunity! I suppose you also believe in the tooth fairy?

 

[Buck]

For every person who signed a card last drive, two are saying no this time! Sorry Charlie Brown, amfa lost their oppurtunity! I suppose you also believe in the tooth fairy?

[post="186813"][/post]​

It pleases me that you are collecting and counting the signature cards Kevin.

OPPURTUNITY

No entry found for OPPURTUNITY.

Did you mean OPPORTUNITY

1.

a) A favorable or advantageous circumstance or combination of circumstances.

B) A favorable or suitable occasion or time.

2. A chance for progress or advancement.


Some people believe in the fairies and some believe in politics that support them

 

[High Speed Steel]

It pleases me that you are collecting and counting the signature cards Kevin.

OPPURTUNITY

No entry found for OPPURTUNITY.

Did you mean OPPORTUNITY

1.

a) A favorable or advantageous circumstance or combination of circumstances.

B) A favorable or suitable occasion or time.

2. A chance for progress or advancement.
Some people believe in the fairies and some believe in politics that support them

[post="186845"][/post]​

"Oh Wow Buck", nice catch on the typo! You must be a genius! :blink:

I guess we are back to spelling and grammar lesson's "huh", Buck. :huh:

----------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Buck]

"Oh Wow Buck", nice catch on the typo! You must be a genius! :blink:

I guess we are back to spelling and grammar lesson's "huh", Buck. :huh:

----------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

[post="186912"][/post]​

Did I offend your "Redneck Heritage"?

 

[Bob Owens]

For every person who signed a card last drive, two are saying no this time! Sorry Charlie Brown, amfa lost their oppurtunity! I suppose you also believe in the tooth fairy?

[post="186813"][/post]​

I think you are wrong again CIO. As time goes by the burdens that the concessions impose will become harder and harder to bear. This will lead to more and more resentment towards the TWU, across all classifications. As bad as M&R was hit, other classifications were hit even worse. Not only did they lose all the benifits but their hourly rate is lower than it was prior to 2001. Their real rate is the lowest it has ever been. Over the last twenty years their pay has been effectively cut by more than half!

By the way how could you make such a claim when you dont even know who signed cards last time and who didnt?

AMFA and the AGW NOW!