Insurgent Union Fails In Representation Bid

[Decision 2004]

That 27 number is so close you cannot handle it?

Would you prefer a number like say "3200" as in the number that did not get pin numbers to vote on the Industry Leading Concession?

There never was an NMB validation check on every card, so you cannot prove they were not valid, anymore than I can prove they were. So if there was never a validation check, how can you claim to know for a fact? I was involved and cannot even claim every card would have been declared valid by the NMB.

I do however, know that the cards were audited three times and many obvious invalid cards were removed before submission to the NMB. There were 9,274 cards submitted after audit. That is the truth, that is fact, and anything else is just opinion.

I find it interesting that you can point out every little flaw you percieve in the AMFA leadership, yet you cannot see the flaws of your current union representation. At least with AMFA you get a ballot and a chance for change if that is what you wish. In contrast, all you get with the TWU is promise of change when AMFA pounds on the door, but substance of change does not exist.

You still have that Knot-Logic disease that forms a belief that a union should be something seperate from the membership.

The TWU should really be named:

Transport Workers Dictatorship fo America, AFL-CIO

Get it? TWD instead of TWU

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

From all the information at hand Amfa will be unable to get the 8000 plus valid cards signed again!

I think your time will be better spent getting ready for the turbulence we will be facing in the future! Oh, Just remember Amfa is the one that is willing to sacrifice members to keep the leaders flowing in money. Doesn't make since to me!

Between the TWU and Amfa, Who has increased in membership the most over the last 10 years?


cio, you have had many things in your hand. "Information" was not one of them.

AMFA does not sacrifice jobs for dues. It is the twu that performs this anti-union function. Tell me, who does air starts, deicing, push backs at AA? It use to be AMTs. The twu allowed those jobs to be taken away. But the new people who did these jobs were twu members. Ah, the dues flow was safe.

Why do you ask a simple question about membership numbers between AMFA and the twu? Everyone knows the twu has more members. But then AMFA was not created to represent casino dealers, bar tenders and taxi drivers. AMFA was created to protect and promote the craft & class of the AMT.

 

[Bob Owens]

Attempt at deception? Why? Because we had no dead people on the list? See you again real soon cio. The twu is scared of a vote because they will lose.

[post="183281"][/post]​

At least thats what Gless said "an election is a chance where the TWU would lose".

 

[Bob Owens]

There is no way that amfa will get near the cards they had. But you keep on believing that okay Bob. Amfa is not a threat!!

[post="183644"][/post]​

AMFAs not a threat to the TWU? Ok you said it, keep believing that.

The fact is that those who are laid off are pretty much a guaranteed card. As time goes by the impact of the paycuts only gets greater on those thast are still working, not less because our real pay continues to decline, if the economy should rebound then discontent with the TWU will be even greater. The members will no longer buy the "you guys voted for it line" since this contract was put in place with Jim Littles "without further ratification" signature after he had announced a revote due to the fact that the company was obviously not as open as they claimed. That means even more cards plus the fact is that if AMFA files with the same number of cards this time it will be enough due to all the retirees and resignations.

We shall see what happens next year, the fact is that filing was a good move, now we have an exact number and defined who is eligible. This is a big step, even if it is dissapointing its still further than AMFA has ever gotten before. Next year we shall take the final step into AMFA and start on our journey to unite our profession and restore it to what it should be.

The TWU only has one more move left, that is to see if the company will make AA and AE a single carrier. It appears that the language in the Eagle contract has been massaged specifically for that purpose. I guess that we should beat you to the punch and collect cards from them too. How about it "will fix for food". Are you up for a card drive? We can help. Send me a PM.

 

[AMFAMAN]

I think you will find out, the TWU had the least amount of influence in the decision.

Great quote, I will use it as a posting. TWU Blowhard admits company had most influence. Thanks Flash, you're helping write the material already.

Between the TWU and Amfa, Who has increased in membership the most over the last 10 years?

Yeah them Railroad bartenders, casino dealers and the like are really impressive.

[post="183635"][/post]​

 

[Nightwatch]

THIS IS NOT A VICTORY FOR AA OR THE TWU. WE WILL BE BACK WITH SUFFICIENT CARDS FOR AN ELECTION. WE THANK THE SUPPORTERS AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS HELP IN OUR QUEST TO HAVE OUR OWN UNION AT AA.

SINCERELY,
/S/ O.V. DELLE-FEMINE
NATIONAL DIRECTOR
***************************************************************

Now that's really funny. Not a victory for AA or the TWU...Hey delle baby, the TWU nor AA filed to have an election. Why not state you screwed up in assuming you had sufficient interest? "WE THANK THE SUPPORTERS AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS HELP IN OUR QUEST TO HAVE OUR OWN UNION AT AA."..our own union delle? Now that'll irritate the hell out of MAG!

 

[Rusty]

THIS IS NOT A VICTORY FOR AA OR THE TWU. WE WILL BE BACK WITH SUFFICIENT CARDS FOR AN ELECTION. WE THANK THE SUPPORTERS AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS HELP IN OUR QUEST TO HAVE OUR OWN UNION AT AA.

SINCERELY,
/S/ O.V. DELLE-FEMINE
NATIONAL DIRECTOR
***************************************************************

Now that's really funny. Not a victory for AA or the TWU...Hey delle baby, the TWU nor AA filed to have an election. Why not state you screwed up in assuming you had sufficient interest? "WE THANK THE SUPPORTERS AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS HELP IN OUR QUEST TO HAVE OUR OWN UNION AT AA."..our own union delle? Now that'll irritate the hell out of MAG!

[post="185763"][/post]​

1. The ineligibility of 24 retired employees, Attachment B to Investigator’s Rulings;
2. The ineligibility of 20 employees, who have resigned, Attachment C to Investigator’s Rulings;
3. The ineligibility of 144 Fleet Service Clerks, Attachment E to Investigator’s Rulings;
4. The ineligibility of 89 former employees laid-off while on probation without any recall rights, Attachment F to Investigator’s Rulings (AMFA’s Exhibit E – Probationary Layoff –No Recall Rights), (AA’s Exhibit E – Employees laid off from probation);
5. The ineligibility of 4 Management Employees, Attachment G to Investigator’s Rulings;
6. The ineligibility of 1 Former TWA Employee Without an Employer-Employee Relationship With AA And Without Recall Rights, Attachment H to Investigator’s Rulings;
7. The ineligibility of 24 Former Employees Working At Other Airlines, Attachment I to Investigator’s Rulings;
8. The ineligibility of 25 Furloughed Employees Who Have Waived/Declined Recall, Attachment K to Investigator’s Rulings;
9. The ineligibility of 1 Employee Working Outside the Craft or Class, Attachment L to Investigator’s Rulings;
10. The ineligibility of 1 Terminated Employee, Attachment M to Investigator’s Rulings;
11. The ineligibility of 249 Fleet Service Fuelers, Attachment N to Investigator’s Rulings, (AMFA’s Exhibit M – Fleet Service Fueler), (AA’s Exhibit M – Fleet Service Clerk/Fuelers), (AA’s Addendum to Exhibit M, Fuelers);
12. The ineligibility of 366 Cleaners and 149 Janitors, (AMFA’s Schaible (2) Decl. and Schaible (3) Decl);
13. The ineligibility of 244 Miscellaneous Other Exclusions contained within Declarations accompanying AMFA’s April 22, 2004 Challenges and Objections, which were not considered in the Rulings,
a. The ineligibility of 10 additional retired employees not considered in the Rulings,
b. The ineligibility of 104 additional employees who have resigned not considered in the Rulings,
c. The ineligibility of 4 additional Fleet Service Clerks not considered in the Rulings,
d. The ineligibility of 6 additional former employees laid-off while on probation without any recall rights not considered in the Rulings,
e. The ineligibility of 5 additional management employees not considered in the Rulings,
f. The ineligibility of 21 additional Former TWA Employees Without an Employer-Employee Relationship With AA And Without Recall Rights not considered in the Rulings,
g. The ineligibility of 12 additional Former Employees Working At Other Airlines not considered in the Rulings,
h. The ineligibility of 3 additional Deceased Employees not considered in the Rulings,
i. The ineligibility of 65 additional Furloughed Employees Who Have Waived/Declined Recall not considered in the Rulings,
j. The ineligibility of 7 additional Terminated Employee not considered in the Rulings,
k. The ineligibility of 8 additional miscellaneous individuals ineligible for various reasons and not considered in the Rulings.
14. The ineligibility of 1,167 Cabin Cleaning and Lavatory Service Personnel, Attachment O to Investigator’s Rulings,
a. 15 duplicates not removed from Attachment O,
b. 2 additional duplicates not removed from Attachment O,
c. 28 names on eligibility list not removed from Attachment O,
d. 2 names removed from Attachment O but not removed from eligibility list,
e. Double counting of 14 individuals alleged to be Cabin Cleaning and Lavatory Service Personnel who have been counted as Fuelers,
f. 5 ineligible AA employees should not have been added to the AA eligibility list,
g. 1,167 Ineligible Fleet Service Clerks.
15. The ineligibility of 21 Former TWA Furloughees, Attachment P to Investigator’s Rulings;
16. The ineligibility of 46 Individuals from AMFA’s May 24, 2004 Submission, Exhibit “O†entitled “AA Eligibility List – TWA Exhibit D – Additional Info Acquired From,†not considered in the Rulings;
17. The ineligibility of 36 additional retired employees from Flagship News not considered in the Rulings;
18. The ineligibility of 150 additional TWA employees Not on TWU’ Exhibit D and therefore without contractual recall rights, not considered in the Rulings;

 

[Bob Owens]

THIS IS NOT A VICTORY FOR AA OR THE TWU. WE WILL BE BACK WITH SUFFICIENT CARDS FOR AN ELECTION. WE THANK THE SUPPORTERS AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS HELP IN OUR QUEST TO HAVE OUR OWN UNION AT AA.

SINCERELY,
/S/ O.V. DELLE-FEMINE
NATIONAL DIRECTOR
***************************************************************

Now that's really funny. Not a victory for AA or the TWU...Hey delle baby, the TWU nor AA filed to have an election. Why not state you screwed up in assuming you had sufficient interest? "WE THANK THE SUPPORTERS AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS HELP IN OUR QUEST TO HAVE OUR OWN UNION AT AA."..our own union delle? Now that'll irritate the hell out of MAG!

[post="185763"][/post]​

Yea he screwed up by using the number that AA/TWU used when they filed two years earlier. He screwed up by not taking into account how corrupt the whole process is. Even though the government accepted the 16000 number then, two years later despite negative growth, attrition and layoffs the NMB decides that the number is actually much larger. If thats the case then why did they accept the other number in the first place? Can anyone explain how the NMB could rationally accept the TWU and AAs claim that the uncontested number they submitted grew by over 2000 people when the company was eliminating thousands of positions?

Well, it really does not matter. We have the number now, and many of those who they added are more than willing to fill out any card for any union. I have no doubt that we can get an addition 27 cards just out of JFK alone. The TWA guys dont like the TWU because they feel they were slighted out of seniority, the AA guys feel that the TWU gave away too much. So instead of losing 16000 members this year they will lose 18000 next. And who knows, maybe the rest will go to the AGW!

 

[AMFAMAN]

The Dispatchers are getting ready to kick off another drive to oust the twu. They will be filing shortly after we do next year, they are on a 2 year hold from the NMB.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Yea he screwed up by using the number that AA/TWU used when they filed two years earlier. He screwed up by not taking into account how corrupt the whole process is. Even though the government accepted the 16000 number then, two years later despite negative growth, attrition and layoffs the NMB decides that the number is actually much larger. If thats the case then why did they accept the other number in the first place? Can anyone explain how the NMB could rationally accept the TWU and AAs claim that the uncontested number they submitted grew by over 2000 people when the company was eliminating thousands of positions?


Bob, I assume by your post that you are referring to Delle, in referrence to screwing up.How long has the little fella been going through this process? Do you know how stupid it sounds that you addess the process as being corrupt? Your little fella should know by now how it works, hell he has been at it for what,"40" YEARS...? You people want to come off as if you are in "awe" to the whole representational process....

You people are a too funny :blink:

-----------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Hackman]

Yea he screwed up by using the number that AA/TWU used when they filed two years earlier. He screwed up by not taking into account how corrupt the whole process is. Even though the government accepted the 16000 number then, two years later despite negative growth, attrition and layoffs the NMB decides that the number is actually much larger. If thats the case then why did they accept the other number in the first place? Can anyone explain how the NMB could rationally accept the TWU and AAs claim that the uncontested number they submitted grew by over 2000 people when the company was eliminating thousands of positions?
Bob, I assume by your post that you are referring to Delle, in referrence to screwing up.How long has the little fella been going through this process? Do you know how stupid it sounds that you addess the process as being corrupt? Your little fella should know by now how it works, hell he has been at it for what,"40" YEARS...? You people want to come off as if you are in "awe" to the whole representational process....

You people are a too funny --------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

[post="186012"][/post]​

What's really funny though hss, how many M@R AMFA has compared to the twu.

NOW THATS FUNNY!!!!!

Get ready. Card drive 2 is well under way, and we now know the numbers of the fraudlent list.

BYE BYE twu.......

 

[High Speed Steel]

What's really funny though hss, how many M@R AMFA has compared to the twu.

NOW THATS FUNNY!!!!!

Get ready. Card drive 2 is well under way, and we now know the numbers of the fraudlent list.

BYE BYE twu.......

[post="186065"][/post]​

Hackman,

You find it funny that the amfa has more M@R than that of the TWU..? I don't see the humor in your post..! Based off of percentages amfa has an estimate of 47% and growing daily on the street...! The TWU has the estimate of 16% on the street........

This is no laughing matter here Mr. Hackman, only misery...!!!

-------------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Hackman]

Hackman,

You find it funny that the amfa has more M@R than that of the TWU..? I don't see the humor in your post..! Based off of percentages amfa has an estimate of 47% and growing daily on the street...! The TWU has the estimate of 16% on the street........

This is no laughing matter here Mr. Hackman, only misery...!!!

-------------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

[post="186084"][/post]​

I don't know why you twu cultists insist on the concessions for jobs (dues) theory is the answer. Its history that shows it does not work! Layoffs are part of the airline industry, and always will be. No union can stop them, and your beloved twu is included. Giving away 50 years of hard won benefits and pay is not the way to go, I don't know why its so hard to understand for you Tulsa "at least I got me this here job for Wal Mart wages" twu bubbas.

When is Do-little going to have his friends in management "show us the shared sacrifice"? Still waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and.....
Damn sure looks like Do-littles' not worried at all about his "shared sacrifice", he and his worthless cronies got they're raises this year. Well into the six figures.

How low will you go hss? We know how low the twu will go for dues monies, look at the twu at US Air...... THREE TIMES THEY HAVE WILLINGLY GIVEN CONCESSIONS!!!! THE CARRIER IS STILL FAILING!!!! Yet management walks away with millions for running the airline into the ground. The twu International still gets a few more $$$ from the members for the unelected twu fat cats until they go down the pipe for good. Thanks for the concessions fella's, sorry they didn't work for you, bye bye now.

We at AA have the OSM/SRP program, prefunding, Flex Benefits, outsourcing, and many other CONCESSIONS for YEARS!!!! We still can't compete!!!! So your answer
is to just keep on giving??? What about those "twu brothers" who are on the line? They can't be in Tulsa with the cheap living you enjoy!!!! Screw those guys huh??? As long as I got me this here job...... You make me ill.

Misery is right, prolonged by the twu DUE$ MACHINE $$$$$

 

[Checking it Out]

Since Amfa represented Airlines have the highest percentage of members on layoff, And has contributed the most to the growth of third Party Maintenance, Shouldn't we be comparing wages and benefits with them?

AA Is still in the top 30% in wages and benefits in the industry and overhauls the highest percentage of their Aircraft than anyone else! I believe this says more about the TWU, which Amfa can only dream about!

 

[Bob Owens]

Checking it Out,Sep 30 2004, 10:23 AM]
Since Amfa represented Airlines have the highest percentage of members on layoff, And has contributed the most to the growth of third Party Maintenance, Shouldn't we be comparing wages and benefits with them?

Contributed to most of the growth? Now thats a spin. AA spends more on third party maintenence than any other carrier and AA is the only carrier that has OSMs.

AA Is still in the top 30% in wages and benefits in the industry and overhauls the highest percentage of their Aircraft than anyone else!

So you take the top paid mechanic at AA, who earns much, much less than his couterpart at other major, but smaller, carriers, conviently forget the OSM, then claim that AA, the largest carrier in the world is within the top 30% in wages. Well if we are the number 1 airlines why should 30% of the other carriers mechanics make more than us?


I believe this says more about the TWU, which Amfa can only dream about!

What does it say? It says that even though we work for the biggest airline that 30% of the other airlines, thats including airlines like Arrow, Joes Air Taxi etc make more than we do. If we work for the biggest airline, an airline that we helped make the biggest through years of sacrifices and concessions then now that we are the biggest airline shouldnt we expect the highest pay? I thought the TWU promised ILC? Sonny Hall justifies his six figure salary by the size of the union, executives justify their pay by the size of the company, why should we be any different? We know why, because in the TWU we do not have a voice or input into the TWUs plan to wipe out all the other unions in the industry by undercutting them. The TWU is applying the Walmart theory to unionism-They give employers the lowest prices everyday-as even you admit the TWU gives lower labor costs than all the top airlines get, in fact when the whole industry is considered, nearly one third, or 30% make more than the TWU, and thats not counting the other labor discount products that the TWU has to offer such as "OSMs".

[post="186133"][/post]​

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