American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

Yes and when considering what we have lost in contracts past proves it!

We always could have just sunk like Eastern and Pan Am did if you would have preferred?

 

[WeAAsles]

That sounds like the argument that we need a union so we can have best work rules, but we have literally the worst work rules including non union company’s. But I understand your point, I just don’t agree with it.

How long have you been in the TWU?

I have been at AA and a TWU Member for almost 24 years.

I hear people say often that we have the worst work rules compared to ? whoever.

Can you please explain to me EXACTLY what “work rules” (Rules to work) we have that are worse than the rest of the industry we compare ourselves to?

 

[WeAAsles]

It's true that all of us were affected by those things, but it's also true that the last several years have seen the industry not only recover but thrive. This is truly a golden age for aviation, and there is no excuse for workers not to share in that.

Correct. And in 2003 we took concessions. Then other Airlines went Bankrupt and undercut even the concessions we made. Over time those groups began to regain “some” of their losses.

Then we ourselves went through our own real Bankruptcy. We actually made out far better than I would have thought. We had our Pensions frozen and not terminated and we even got payraises although the Company forced work and cities away from us. (I already know that you don’t agree with the Bankruptcy Judge hammer though, ok)

UAL Contracts have slowly been rebuilt since their BK experience, LUS gained a good standalone deal to move into JCBA talks, Delta has given your groups some nice candy, and now we’re working to move the bar up hopefully higher.

But sorry that we can’t strike a deal that fits your timeline.

 

[Kev3188]

Not what you're asking Duke, but who does the company consider your "peer group" when it comes to negotiating, and is that set different from the carriers they use for performance metrics?

 

[Kev3188]

UAL Contracts have slowly been rebuilt since their BK experience...

UA's CBAs have actually gone backwards.

LUS gained a good standalone deal to move into JCBA talks, Delta has given your groups some nice candy, and now we’re working to move the bar up hopefully higher.

As you should, and I hope you do!

But sorry that we can’t strike a deal that fits your timeline.

I am pushing for workers to share in the success they have helped create.Today. If you want to advocate against that, have at it.

 

[WeAAsles]

Come on Weez, you know better. We have been punked by the used car salesman running this airline AND our very own union vis a vis the unelected, illegitimate association.

I still say and will never change my opinion that we would have been treated a hell of a lot worse under Tom Horton and the AA Turnaround Plan.

LUS would have been left to cobble on and Parker wouldn’t have had the economic ability to give those workers raises and because of that and our 5 year BK deals we would have kept the entire industry depressed in wages and benefits.

We needed the merger to remove one more competitor from the industry to have better pricing power for all those left which could in turn translate to our pockets.

As far as the Association conversations I don’t think any of us have anything new to add to those discussions.

I’ll judge ultimately if we were punked when we’re all looking at what we have on our desks to vote on. That will be where I give the Association their final grade.

 

[WeAAsles]

UA's CBAs have actually gone backwards.

Again that represented Membership voted in their last deal by over 70%. So obviously they don’t agree with you.

And if you ever really were a true blue Union Man you need to respect the will of the majority even if you don’t necessarily agree with them.

As you should, and I hope you do!

Thank you. But being honest here, pushy guys who work at other Airlines don’t exactly make the task any easier.

I am pushing for workers to share in the success they have helped create.Today. If you want to advocate against that, have at it.

I think you’re doing quite handsomely already. Wouldn’t you agree?

And you’re not pushing, you’re being pushy.

 

[WeAAsles]

It's true that all of us were affected by those things, but it's also true that the last several years have seen the industry not only recover but thrive. This is truly a golden age for aviation, and there is no excuse for workers not to share in that.

Hey Kev you know how much I love to search for things online and post the information. I found this in my search again for that last UAL Ramp vote tally.

This is a Bankruptcy Term sheet. This Term sheet is against the IAM at UAL for the Ramp Agents. I’m wondering if you’ve ever seen or read one of these things? They’re pretty terrible little nasties.

http://bankrupt.com/misc/tentative_agreement.pdf

 

[WeAAsles]

I still say and will never change my opinion that we would have been treated a hell of a lot worse under Tom Horton and the AA Turnaround Plan.

LUS would have been left to cobble on and Parker wouldn’t have had the economic ability to give those workers raises and because of that and our 5 year BK deals we would have kept the entire industry depressed in wages and benefits.

We needed the merger to remove one more competitor from the industry to have better pricing power for all those left which could in turn translate to our pockets.

As far as the Association conversations I don’t think any of us have anything new to add to those discussions.

I’ll judge ultimately if we were punked when we’re all looking at what we have on our desks to vote on. That will be where I give the Association their final grade.

Hey I got a funny button from AANOTOK. I bet he can’t debate against what I wrote here or give me a different opinion?

I actually would love to read any reasonable “fact based” opinion giving me any non emotional counterpoints?

 

[Vortilon]

Correct. And in 2003 we took concessions. Then other Airlines went Bankrupt and undercut even the concessions we made. Over time those groups began to regain “some” of their losses.

Then we ourselves went through our own real Bankruptcy. We actually made out far better than I would have thought. We had our Pensions frozen and not terminated and we even got payraises although the Company forced work and cities away from us. (I already know that you don’t agree with the Bankruptcy Judge hammer though, ok)

UAL Contracts have slowly been rebuilt since their BK experience, LUS gained a good standalone deal to move into JCBA talks, Delta has given your groups some nice candy, and now we’re working to move the bar up hopefully higher.

But sorry that we can’t strike a deal that fits your timeline.

Just to be clear, in 2003, the concessions the AA AMTs took, were a lot worse than our peers at bankrupt airlines suffered. Yeah, that's Jim Little's legacy. That little POS will be looking over his shoulder the rest of his life.

 

[AANOTOK]

So this was posted on Jetnet this morning.

" After reading the latest Association update and the message from my Local President we are not getting a JCBA anytime soon."

Did I miss the most recent update?

 

[WeAAsles]

Just to be clear, in 2003, the concessions the AA AMTs took, were a lot worse than our peers at bankrupt airlines suffered. Yeah, that's Jim Little's legacy. That little POS will be looking over his shoulder the rest of his life.

Not trying to hit you Vort but honestly I have never seen one shred of proof that those concessions weren’t distributed equally by percentage between every group the TWU Represented.

That percentage equaled out to a specific monetary value for each group that the Representing President’s at the time had to cost out of our Contracts and then put it to our vote.

Even that half pay for the first day sick that you guys have was a part of that economic value. Maybe your reps should have taken it directly out of even more wages and the optics wouldn’t have looked as bad years down the line?

 

[AANOTOK]

How's that whiner? You love me so much I gave you a winner...I notice you don't tell the world when your leader or teammates shower you with winners when you cough...W, your immaturity isn't worth my typing time, honestly.

 

[AANOTOK]

Oh and by the way, I see your leader complains about all his "disagree" marks publicly as well.
I said earlier you two were related...funny stuff, W.

 

[WeAAsles]

How's that whiner? You love me so much I gave you a winner...I notice you don't tell the world when your leader or teammates shower you with winners when you cough...W, your immaturity isn't worth my typing time, honestly.

Chill out man. You’re hyperventilating. And you just typed BTW.

Seriously I was just curious if you had a good counterpoint is all?

And no I haven’t seen any update so don’t know what the guy was talking about who you read.