American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[B737 driver]

Weez.. the 'Tim &Al show' is not only boring, but it speaks volumes into the mind of the creator. Obviously, it is a production that is probably designed to interfere with our current negotiations, or at the very least to discredit the representation, specifically the IAM. Someone is getting deep psychological satisfaction from doing this. The logistics of spending the better part of every waking moment to perpetuate this charade validates the observation.

Only a bitter, lonely, rejected, and narcissistic mind, with low self-esteem could find these clever tirades as 'entertaining' or a means to 'pass time'. My bet is that it's a game that they would secretly love to win by damaging relations and solidarity between the union(s) and membership. All which of course, only benefits one other entity... guess what that entity is...

THEMSELVES!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Weez.. the 'Tim &Al show' is not only boring, but it speaks volumes into the mind of the creator. Obviously, it is a production that is probably designed to interfere with our current negotiations, or at the very least to discredit the representation, specifically the IAM. Someone is getting deep psychological satisfaction from doing this. The logistics of spending the better part of every waking moment to perpetuate this charade validates the observation.

Only a bitter, lonely, rejected, and narcissistic mind, with low self-esteem could find these clever tirades as 'entertaining' or a means to 'pass time'. My bet is that it's a game that they would secretly love to win by damaging relations and solidarity between the union(s) and membership. All which of course, only benefits one other entity... guess what that entity is...

I stopped reading your post since they are nonsensical, however, glad to see you read mine.

The problem is that the union pissed away all leverage with the cross utilization TWU dues grab (TWU made millions with the wage hikes that their dues is based on). So the question remains, what leverage do you have to continue dragging this on?

I mean it's very easy for Mark Baskett to say that the offer on the table is worse than what we have (Fact Check: $120 million more per year for fleet) since he is making a total package of $250,000 a year, but none of you, including Mr Baskett have offered any solutions on exactly how you are going to increase the offer???? Baskett doesn't even quote his sources.

OTOH, I have offered the IAM"s own "Top" source, it's own attorney who said that waiting isn't going to increase pressure on the company, in fact, the next offer could be worse. And Sito's District 19 which said that the NMB will not release to a PEB, much less self help.

There is no way out of this since you knuckleheads put the Labor Organization's finances ahead of the union of employees.

 

[GVPSPIAM]

I stopped reading your post since they are nonsensical, however, glad to see you read mine.

The problem is that the union pissed away all leverage with the cross utilization TWU dues grab (TWU made millions with the wage hikes that their dues is based on). So the question remains, what leverage do you have to continue dragging this on?

I mean it's very easy for Mark Baskett to say that the offer on the table is worse than what we have (Fact Check: $120 million more per year for fleet) since he is making a total package of $250,000 a year, but none of you, including Mr Baskett have offered any solutions on exactly how you are going to increase the offer???? Baskett doesn't even quote his sources.

OTOH, I have offered the IAM"s own "Top" source, it's own attorney who said that waiting isn't going to increase pressure on the company, in fact, the next offer could be worse. And Sito's District 19 which said that the NMB will not release to a PEB, much less self help.

There is no way out of this since you knuckleheads put the Labor Organization's finances ahead of the union of employees.

EVIDENCE AND PROOF?

Where is your facts? Your words mean nothing.


Two weeks?

 

[WeAAsles]

Celebrating the 20 year anniversary of the IAM bloodpath where we signed our first TA in 1999 and gotrid of 85 stations and all remaining cargo jobs and went from 8500 rampers to 4500 rampers. And the iam said our first contract was about protection.
Posters like Diogenes from ilm were swept off the cliff. Everyone said they voted no but the iam said it passed. Nobody even knew who counted the ballots.
So here is 20 years to chiat representation!

This would be an interesting conversation to have if it could be grounded by facts and not fall off the cliff.

You had no contract or employment protection prior to this first agreement as I understand. What was going on with the Airline and the Economy back in 1999?

Why would any Negotiators sign an agreement losing half a workforce as you say since they would also lose a lot of money in dues?

I always think somewhere between a painted rosy picture and the scorched Earth picture is the REAL picture. That’s what I look for.

 

[WeAAsles]

There’s a whole cadre of people that howl about how irrelevant he is all while chasing him to all corners of the ‘Net to do so.

He was thrown off the Group page that I mostly like to hang my hat in and I also blocked him before anyway.

I admit I did have some fun with him on that IAM Truth Squad page but there isn’t practically a soul on there anyway so the site is a goof.

Otherwise we have zero contact on Facebook.

And Tim only recently started commenting on Jetnet and if you actually worked for our Airline you could see he keeps coming after my comments and never vice versa.

This is the only site that unfortunately due to how it’s constructed I’m stuck with him. And the ignore feature here is a joke compared to the FB Block feature which is spectacular.

 

[Tim Nelson]

This would be an interesting conversation to have if it could be grounded by facts and not fall off the cliff.

You had no contract or employment protection prior to this first agreement as I understand. What was going on with the Airline and the Economy back in 1999?

Why would any Negotiators sign an agreement losing half a workforce as you say since they would also lose a lot of money in dues?

I always think somewhere between a painted rosy picture and the scorched Earth picture is the REAL picture. That’s what I look for.

They didn't lose dues. They gained 4,500 members. Not sure what you don't understand. We got hosed. You want me to screenshot a list of all of our stations in our first contract that were not protected and then contracted out? Search for Diogenes on here. He was a casualty. Didn't a 30 year guy have more protection by being non union than when the union signed a contract that forced his station to close? At Spirit, the IAM whacked all stations just to secure 200 dues payers in FLL. What are you telling JetBlue? You telling them that they should give up their jobs everywhere so JFK can survive and pay dues?

 

[WeAAsles]

They didn't lose dues. They gained 4,500 members. Not sure what you don't understand. We got hosed. You want me to screenshot a list of all of our stations in our first contract that were not protected and then contracted out? Search for Diogenes on here. He was a casualty. Didn't a 30 year guy have more protection by being non union than when the union signed a contract that forced his station to close? At Spirit, the IAM whacked all stations just to secure 200 dues payers in FLL. What are you telling JetBlue? You telling them that they should give up their jobs everywhere so JFK can survive and pay dues?

I’m willing to listen and maybe learn what you’re trying to say here Tim. But if you try and sell me bullchit I’m going to call you on it.

Now without a Contract couldn’t the Company whack those Stations any time they wanted to anyway?

Do you think you would have been better off remaining unrepresented rather than organizing and biting the hands that fed you?

“Better to live in Hell than serve in Heaven”

 

[Tim Nelson]

I’m willing to listen and maybe learn what you’re trying to say here Tim. But if you try and sell me bullchit I’m going to call you on it.

Now without a Contract couldn’t the Company whack those Stations any time they wanted to anyway?

Do you think you would have been better off remaining unrepresented rather than organizing and biting the hands that fed you?

“Better to live in Hell than serve in Heaven”

in retrospect it was a bad move to vote in the iam. We still are fighting for things that we gave up since we voted for the iam. Losing cargo and 85 stations just so the union could keep 4,500 dues payers was just wrong. But just because the iam is anti worker and creates company deals to expand its dues payers (mcgee, uge as the latest) doesnt mean that other unions are evil.

The best way to answer that question is that i dont believe its in the best interest of delta or jetblue employees to vote in the iam, if history is our guide. I have always felt that its better for workers to have their own union like our pilots or stews. Harder to hose yourself. And as for ramp, the best ramp contract ever was the ramp union at southwest. It was their own union called ropa.

 

[GVPSPIAM]

More lies. US lost cargo in 1992, along with mail and express.

You all voted in the IAM in 1995.

Stop with the misinformation

 

[WeAAsles]

in retrospect it was a bad move to vote in the iam. We still are fighting for things that we gave up since we voted for the iam. Losing cargo and 85 stations just so the union could keep 4,500 (MEMBERS) was just wrong.

You lost me on everything after where I cut off your writings. I don’t want to read your opinions and I have no interest in your future musings. I want to know about the facts, just the facts.

You wrote “We gave up”?

So you admit you voted in a direction that you feel you should “today” have done the opposite?

What was going on “then” to make you vote the way you did?

I understand that you wanted the IBT and not the IAM? Do you think you would have a brighter career today had your coworkers chosen the IBT over the IAM?

What do you feel about your Pension being frozen back in 1992 prior to gaining representation and your first contract?

 

[WeAAsles]

More lies. US lost cargo in 1992, along with mail and express.

You all voted in the IAM in 1995.

Stop with the misinformation

Cargo was lost in 1992? Tim do you have proof that it was lost after you voted in your first Contract in 1999?

Didn’t you vote in a Union because of all the hits you took in 1992?

Al do you want to join in if you can keep your clown face at bay?

 

[Kev3188]

He was thrown off the Group page that I mostly like to hang my hat in and I also blocked him before anyway.

I admit I did have some fun with him on that IAM Truth Squad page but there isn’t practically a soul on there anyway so the site is a goof.

Otherwise we have zero contact on Facebook.

And Tim only recently started commenting on Jetnet and if you actually worked for our Airline you could see he keeps coming after my comments and never vice versa.

This is the only site that unfortunately due to how it’s constructed I’m stuck with him. And the ignore feature here is a joke compared to the FB Block feature which is spectacular.

Wasn’t talking about just you.

They didn't lose dues. They gained 4,500 members. Not sure what you don't understand. We got hosed. You want me to screenshot a list of all of our stations in our first contract that were not protected and then contracted out? Search for Diogenes on here. He was a casualty. Didn't a 30 year guy have more protection by being non union than when the union signed a contract that forced his station to close? At Spirit, the IAM whacked all stations just to secure 200 dues payers in FLL. What are you telling JetBlue? You telling them that they should give up their jobs everywhere so JFK can survive and pay dues?

It’s not just Diogenes. There are quite a few US people on this site that have been displaced. It won’t take long searching to find the list(s) of cities closed.

 

[WeAAsles]

Wasn’t talking about just you.

I’m curious then who this whole cadre of people are that have been chasing him around the net?

On his personal Group page he was the one who went out seeking numbers. Didn’t matter who the numbers were unless they refuted him and then they would be culled.

Can you tell me who and where they’re chasing after him because truthfully, I swear, honestly I’m not seeing it?

 

[WeAAsles]

It’s not just Diogenes. There are quite a few US people on this site that have been displaced. It won’t take long searching to find the list(s) of cities closed.

I think that goes for pretty much the entire Airline industry don’t you think?

How many cities did Delta have for Fleet left prior to the merger? And whatever they did keep with in house staffed personnel, how many of them were earning the top wage rates?

 

[Kev3188]

DL had 13, and NW brought 40 to the party (we overlapped in all but 3 stations: SLC, CVG, and SJU).

But we’re talking about US, and this page.

I can think of at least 3 users that were displaced? IAM sure there are more.