American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Buck]

I havnt heard any further discussion on the pt cap language lately.

Weaasels mentioned the other day?

 

[AANOTOK]

Actually I believe based on those 3 facts or whatever....it puts us further away from a T/A

That comment of mine was in response to what Tim posted:

"its actually a good idea if things are plugged but i agreed to take the post down because a union dude called and said they were a lot closer to a contract than they led on in updates and didn't want any stirring up"

It was sarcasm.

 

[AANOTOK]

It’s not an opinion that if the language proposed by the company has “ more when and where so directed work “ then the company wants the ability to take whatever they want. That language gives them that right. If they don’t want that right then why propose the language?

Again, if the Association is unwilling to provide the proposal for the members viewing, it indeed can be a different interpretation. The when and where can be confined to one work area, maybe catering, or maybe deicing. Two areas they have wanted but have relented a bit on. While still being outsourcing or the possibility of in the future, that's a far cry from loading and unloading airplanes only. I have not seen that anywhere. Not saying AA hasn't stooped that low in their proposal, but I have not seen it. Apparently you and Mr accurate have along with Mr. Szwed, but many members have not I don't believe.

 

[P. REZ]

Again, if the Association is unwilling to provide the proposal for the members viewing, it indeed can be a different interpretation. The when and where can be confined to one work area, maybe catering, or maybe deicing. Two areas they have wanted but have relented a bit on. While still being outsourcing or the possibility of in the future, that's a far cry from loading and unloading airplanes only. I have not seen that anywhere. Not saying AA hasn't stooped that low in their proposal, but I have not seen it. Apparently you and Mr accurate have along with Mr. Szwed, but many members have not I don't believe.

The company wants the ability to throw more and more work from various areas and put it in the "when and where directed category." Fact. This management team wants a cost neutral or negative contract. I've said this before and still believe today. I say, ph**k them and their pos mindset.

P. Rez

 

[NYer]

It’s not an opinion that if the language proposed by the company has “ more when and where so directed work “ then the company wants the ability to take whatever they want. That language gives them that right. If they don’t want that right then why propose the language?

In that case, those words are in the current IAM CBA, I guess they can take those jobs now.

 

[WeAAsles]

The company wants the ability to throw more and more work from various areas and put it in the "when and where directed category." Fact. This management team wants a cost neutral or negative contract. I've said this before and still believe today. I say, ph**k them and their pos mindset.

P. Rez

I agree. And as a matter of fact I would like to see more work removed from the when and where so directed category and see some old jobs return to the fold.

 

[Tim Nelson]

In that case, those words are in the current IAM CBA, I guess they can take those jobs now.

Those words are in the IAM contract but only affect a limited amount of work. I believe we have far more work in our scope than the TWU does.

The following isn't when and where directed.
1. Loading/Unloading at 40 stations
2. Catering (1,200 jobs)
3. 3 Cargo centers
4. All Tower work (maybe a couple hundred?)
5. All Central Load Planning (125 jobs)

The latest seniority roster should show close to 8,000 Fleet Service members. As an aside, I could be wrong but the IAM may be holding back the IAM only seniority roster which was suppose to be electronically given to all Local Chairpersons, by July 31st. yet the AGC's have refused to enforce that. Why? But I believe our numbers are up to around 8,000 and not sure about yours....12,000? We are a lot smaller but because we have so much more scope, we are at 8,000 or maybe more. We do however "When and where direct" half of PHL, DCA, and some in PIT, CLT, LGA, BOS as we work most of the 175 work. That's roughly 1,300 jobs out of the 8,000. And unlike the TWU, we run our express ofload bags to express. TWU doesnt' 'do that in ORD at least.

 

[Tim Nelson]

That comment of mine was in response to what Tim posted:

"its actually a good idea if things are plugged but i agreed to take the post down because a union dude called and said they were a lot closer to a contract than they led on in updates and didn't want any stirring up"

It was sarcasm.

Let me expand. I agreed to remove a post because "We are almost there". I was told VIRTUALLY firshand by an IAM negotiator that I was way off base and that we shouldn't be pissing off Parker, at this point, and that the union WILL NOT BE filing section 6 WITHOUT bringing what is on the table to the members. They are hopeful it is a TA and to make a long story short, they are bartering the health care to get a boost in the retirement contribution and scope. To that I said, ok, I'll remove the post and edit a few others since I will also most likely be getting a choice on the IAM pension or 401k. Doesn't mean I'm not going to keep hammering the IAM pension and I may be getting played by an IAM union guy who I actually respect at this time. But if we get a double digit retirement contribution and a bump in scope, I wouldn't mind paying another $50 in health care. Whatever the case, the key thing for me was that they will not make a decision to go into section 6 without the consent of a no vote. Selfishly, I'd prefer just to go into section 6 and leave things alone but admittedly it is fair to have a vote prior.

Now you might say, why then does the update say that the company contradicted Parker and moved backwards? Yea I know. Completely opposite of everything I just said so go figure.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Now you might say, why then does the update say that the company contradicted Parker and moved backwards? Yea I know. Completely opposite of everything I just said so go figure.

REVERSE PSYCHOLGY -- YOU... of all people should know this...
FEAR is the most powerful tool available to mankind when controlling the "masses"

Theology 101... Modern Politics 101... Negotiations 101...

 

[WeAAsles]

Those words are in the IAM contract but only affect a limited amount of work. I believe we have far more work in our scope than the TWU does.

The following isn't when and where directed.
1. Loading/Unloading at 40 stations
2. Catering (1,200 jobs)
3. 3 Cargo centers
4. All Tower work (maybe a couple hundred?)
5. All Central Load Planning (125 jobs)

The latest seniority roster should show close to 8,000 Fleet Service members. As an aside, I could be wrong but the IAM may be holding back the IAM only seniority roster which was suppose to be electronically given to all Local Chairpersons, by July 31st. yet the AGC's have refused to enforce that. Why? But I believe our numbers are up to around 8,000 and not sure about yours....12,000? We are a lot smaller but because we have so much more scope, we are at 8,000 or maybe more. We do however "When and where direct" half of PHL, DCA, and some in PIT, CLT, LGA, BOS as we work most of the 175 work. That's roughly 1,300 jobs out of the 8,000. And unlike the TWU, we run our express ofload bags to express. TWU doesnt' 'do that in ORD at least.

Just looked at our Master Seniority List and we have a total of 10,241 TWU Members in Title 3.

Last guy was hired in AUS on 8/13 and there were 8 people hired Full Time since May in LAX.

Our Seniority Lists are updated daily in Jetnet and can be viewed as a Master or separated by Station individually and even the CC can be separated from viewing.

The ONLY complaint I would have is you can’t separate out FT from PT.

 

[Racer X]

That comment of mine was in response to what Tim posted:

"its actually a good idea if things are plugged but i agreed to take the post down because a union dude called and said they were a lot closer to a contract than they led on in updates and didn't want any stirring up"

It was sarcasm.

Lol. Sorry. Missed the sarcasm. I’m usually “a little bit” sharper than that. Haha

 

[Racer X]

In that case, those words are in the current IAM CBA, I guess they can take those jobs now.

That is only Partly correct. It is in the IAM agreement but also in the IAM Agreement is language that DOES NOT FALL UNDER WHEN AND WHERE SO DIRECTED. So that work cannot be outsourced. It includes such things as mainline work, loading and unloading....., transportation of....... tower.., catering where so named etc. Functions that fall under when and where so directed are regional work, Lav and water, repo , cleaning.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Just looked at our Master Seniority List and we have a total of 10,241 TWU Members in Title 3.

Last guy was hired in AUS on 8/13 and there were 8 people hired Full Time since May in LAX.

Our Seniority Lists are updated daily in Jetnet and can be viewed as a Master or separated by Station individually and even the CC can be separated from viewing.

The ONLY complaint I would have is you can’t separate out FT from PT.

why wont the iam and the agcs enforce the iam contract and have the company provide the local chairpersons with the required electronic system seniority list by July 31st as required?
Without enforcing it, how will we know if the Association % balance needs to be revisited for the twu? Or if the company has breached the part time cap? Our list has to be separated by full time and part time.

 

[WeAAsles]

why wont the iam and the agcs enforce the iam contract and have the company provide the local chairpersons with the required electronic system seniority list by July 31st as required?
Without enforcing it, how will we know if the Association % balance needs to be revisited for the twu? Or if the company has breached the part time cap? Our list has to be separated by full time and part time.

Although this might not comfort you for what you’re looking for today I’m sure in the JCBA the Seniority lists will be provided to all as we in TWU are currently enjoying.

I also tend to doubt we will see any more horse trading of any established Stations between the two Unions in the future as the nonsense has already caused both sides enough heartache to last a lifetime. JMO.

Just wouldn’t be too wise IMO and best to be left alone. (Not speaking of reopened cities)

 

[swamt]

zero health care cost. the ta must be nline

The mechanics have never had premiums and I am proud for them keeping what they have and refusing to go with the teamsters teamcare plan. That would have been a disaster.
The highlights I have seen puts them at 59.30 at DOS and darn near 66 or 67 at top out, 5 years later.